Disabled Caches

[+AZPAUL]

This is my first post to the forums, I've been caching for about 5 mths. now. I have questions about what it means for a cache to be disabled. This reason is that a cache in my local area was disabled, because the co-ordinates weren't right. But the next day the cache was found by two caches that had recieved the right co-ords. from the cache owner by e-mail. Does the FTF stand even though the cache was disabled?

Edited July 24, 2004 by AZPAUL

[+briansnat]

A disabled cache is one that is temporarily taken off line by the owner. Could be for a variety of reasons. Park closures, maintenance, missing and will be replaced, bad coordinates, whatever.

 

What do you mean by a FTF "standing"? If someone found it, the next person there would be the second to find. Or does everyone just pretend that the person who found it first really didn't?

Edited July 24, 2004 by briansnat

[+Beta Test]

Yes.

[n0wae]

Looks like a couple of cachers took the initiative to contact the cache owner to inform him of a problem with his coordinates and were rewarded for their efforts. What prevented you from doing the same?

[+Nurse Dave]

That seems a little silly that he would email the correct coords instead of just changing them on the cache page as soon as he found out though.

[+briansnat]

That seems a little silly that he would email the correct coords instead of just changing them on the cache page as soon as he found out though.

Depending on how far they were off, it may have required an admin to change them.

[+AZPAUL]

I didn't e-mail the owner as I figured that 5 no find logs by different cachers would be sufficent notice that something was wrong. As of this morning the co-ords haven't been corrected on the page yet. I just don't think it is ethically correct to post a find to a disabled cache. MHO.

[+briansnat]

I didn't e-mail the owner as I figured that 5 no find logs by different cachers would be sufficent notice that something was wrong.  As of this morning the co-ords haven't been corrected on the page yet. I just don't think it is ethically correct to post a find to a disabled cache. MHO.

Depends on the reason. If it was disabled because the park was temporarily closed by the authorities and the finder knowingly went there despite this, or if it was disabled while the hider was awaiting permission, or negotiating with park officials that is wrong. It could jeopardize the acceptance of geocching in the area.

 

If it was disabled simply because of some perceived inconvenience to geocachers, like a wet cache, bad coordinates, or reported missing, I don't think it's such a big deal. If the person doesn't mind being inconvienced, or is willing to risk wasting their time looking for a cache that has temporarily removed, give them the smiley.

Edited July 24, 2004 by briansnat

[+Cow Spots]

I thought about complaining to the cache owner on the cache in question (I was the first no-finder) but since he has been caching for a grand total of a week, I was going to let it slide this once.

 

Apparently, his first mistake was that he was going to wait to hide the cache until he got the final approval and got it listed. He sent me an email apologizing that he didn't actually hide the cache yet.

 

His second problem was the cache was off (likely a typo in coord entry) by .300 in the longitude. This may very well be too far off to have moved himself, and required an admin.

 

His third problem is that he emailed corrected coords to some, but not all, of the no-finders. Hrm. That's odd. It is just as easy to post a note on the cache page, explaining the situation, and providing the corrected coords as a temporary workaround.

 

Because the cacher is so new, I'm not gonna gripe directly. I sent a polite email to them explaining what he might do differently in the future.

 

If an established cacher did this, I'd be a little more upset.

 

Long story short... I'd guess the temporary archival is due to the .300 error being too far for him to fix himself.

 

===Dave, The Cow Spots.

[+Nurse Dave]

That seems a little silly that he would email the correct coords instead of just changing them on the cache page as soon as he found out though.

Depending on how far they were off, it may have required an admin to change them.

Ah, true.

[+Jared_and_Tanis]

Not to offend anyone, but this is one of the reasons I think that cachers should wait awhile before hiding a cache (yes, I know that this topic has been discussed before ). If a cache is disabled, the owner should post a note saying why it is disabled. So, if a cache is going along great, and then 2 or 3 people report a no-find, I would disable the cache, note that I'm going to check on the cache, and then decide from there what to do. It's a bit disconcerting to not know why a cache is disabled, especially when we want to go find it .

 

Also: Cow Spots, I commend you on your politeness to the newbie. I have to admit, I can get irritated with them once in a while, and from personal experience, I know that some of them don't take advice well (to the point of filing an abuse complaint against me through geocaching). We all should give them the room they need to become experienced cachers - I'm sure glad I never had a bad experience as a newbie.

 

~Jared of Jared and Tanis

[+briansnat]

Not to offend anyone, but this is one of the reasons I think that cachers should wait awhile before hiding a cache (yes, I know that this topic has been discussed before ). If a cache is disabled, the owner should post a note saying why it is disabled. So, if a cache is going along great, and then 2 or 3 people report a no-find, I would disable the cache, note that I'm going to check on the cache, and then decide from there what to do. It's a bit disconcerting to not know why a cache is disabled, especially when we want to go find it

 

I know a long time geocacher with dozens of hides and hundreds of finds who made similar mistakes...posting a cache before it was actually placed and mistyping coordinates. It's not just a novice thing.

 

I agree that the reason for the disabling should be noted in the logs, but I rarely see this done by anyone, veteran geocachers included.

[+Jared_and_Tanis]

True - lord knows I make typos all the time - where would I be without spell-check?! Of course, I think my post is a little colored by the experience I had with a somewhat local cacher. Their coordinates were consistantly off, and I was not the only cacher to mention it, but to my knowledge, I was the only one who upset them. So, I stand corrected. As for the note thing, I think it should be done more often, but hey - whatcha gunna do?

 

~Jared

[+El Diablo]

We all should give them the room they need to become experienced cachers - I'm sure glad I never had a bad experience as a newbie.

 

That was well said. To many people forget the mistakes they made as newbies. They also tend to forget the experienced cachers that overlooked their mistakes and gave them advice.

 

When we criticize new players, we dampen their spirits, and may even stop them from pursuing the sport altogether. Great care should be taken when critiquing others. The desired effect should be to help them place better caches, not to ridicule them.

 

El Diablo

[+Mudfrog]

I thought about complaining to the cache owner on the cache in question (I was the first no-finder) but since he has been caching for a grand total of a week, I was going to let it slide this once.

 

Apparently, his first mistake was that he was going to wait to hide the cache until he got the final approval and got it listed. He sent me an email apologizing that he didn't actually hide the cache yet.

 

His second problem was the cache was off (likely a typo in coord entry) by .300 in the longitude. This may very well be too far off to have moved himself, and required an admin.

 

His third problem is that he emailed corrected coords to some, but not all, of the no-finders. Hrm. That's odd. It is just as easy to post a note on the cache page, explaining the situation, and providing the corrected coords as a temporary workaround.

 

Because the cacher is so new, I'm not gonna gripe directly. I sent a polite email to them explaining what he might do differently in the future.

 

If an established cacher did this, I'd be a little more upset.

 

Long story short... I'd guess the temporary archival is due to the .300 error being too far for him to fix himself.

 

Agree with you wholeheartedly. Hope that he knows to contact his approver if indeed the coords are too far off and he cant change them himself.

 

Still, I dont think the cache needed to be disabled. A note explaining what the problem is would have been fine and then there would have been no hard feelings with that FTF!

 

This goes for caches that have become less accessible, say because of high water or because there have been DNFs! The cache owner could post a note to what the problem is then the cache finder can make up his/her own mind whether or not they want to go for it!

 

Save the disable for when a cache is ruined, confirmed missing, brought in for maintenance, dangerous to search for, etc,,,

[+AZPAUL]

I want to thank everyone for their input. I was just a little tiffed about the way the owner handled the situation, like the Cow Spots said, we should cut a newbie a little slack.

 

I don't think that the cache owner disabled it, I think that it was done automatically because of the number on DNF logs. Which brings up the question of why does'nt GC disable logging on a disabled cache? It should be pretty easy to program, allowing only CO and cache owner to post to a disabled cache until it is back up.

 

I went out and found the cache this evening after work, it is a fairly nice cache and an easy find when you have the right numbers...

[+Ambrosia]

I did this recently on my newest cache.

 

I had recorded some coords that were fairly nearby, as well as the cache coords, and their names were similar. So I put the wrong coords into the new cache. I've never done this before.

 

The cache got approved, and I think within an hour I realized my mistake, and went to change the coords, but they were too far apart. So I emailed my admin, and then put the right coords on the cache page in big red letters.

 

Within a few hours the admin changed the page with the correct coords.

 

I was sitting there wondering if anyone had noticed, but I hoped not, since the cache was a little out of the way, and it had not been up for very long.

 

But sure enough, I had two different groups that had seen it in that one hour window, got the coords, and went to the wrong spot. What can you do?

[+briansnat]

I don't think that the cache owner disabled it, I think that it was done automatically because of the number on DNF logs. Which brings up the question of why does'nt GC disable logging on a disabled cache? It should be pretty easy to program, allowing only CO and cache owner to post to a disabled cache until it is back up.

 

Caches are not disabled automatically after a certain numbe of DNF logs (otherwise very difficult caches would be disabled all the time). The owner has to do it.

 

GC.COM doesn't disable logging on disabled caches because then people won't be able to log them. Not everyone logs a cache the day they find it. If I find a cache on Saturday, the owner disables it on Sunday and I want to log it on Monday, I should be able to. Similarly, if my friend and I found a cache in July 2002 and my friend decides to open his own account a year later, he should still be able to go back and log it, whether it's disabled, or archived.