Lovelock Geocaches

November 27, 2001

Look the man has come in for some stick, but to say he has a 'plastic oversized lunchbox' is going a bit far!!

November 27, 2001

Look the man has come in for some stick, but to say he has a 'plastic oversized lunchbox' is going a bit far!!

November 27, 2001

quote from Lemdip

"Look the man has come in for some stick, but to say he has a 'plastic oversized lunchbox' is going a bit far!! "

We would like to know why you think we were talking about THAT lunchbox.

I can see how you could be fooled into thinking we were talking about that lunchbox, but size of Robins real genitalia has nothing to do with this thread - Oooh, oooh, oooh!!! Let's start a new one!!

R & L

November 27, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by Rincewind & Luggage:
R & L

R & L... Robin & Lovelock ? Oh nooooo I need to get a life Im seeing it everywhere....

(Sorry guys I was just having a little fun there. Excellent detective work by the way. Did you log your find last night?)

November 27, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by theGophers:

(Excellent detective work by the way. Did you log your find last night?)[/b]

Tee hee - quite amusing - well I guess we won't be shortening our names like that again!!

We didn't log the find last night, by the time we got back it was quite late (the Cranbourne cache is approx 60 miles away) - I'm just about to log it now, just thinking about what to say about Robin & June, sorry, Bonnie and Tonys' cache.... (sorry, did I say that???)

TTFN!!

Rincewind & Luggage

November 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by What'sHeUpTo:

Now, I am prepared to be charitable, perhaps Robin has placed this cache for someone else though I doubt it.

Or could it be that Tony and Bonnie who have never found nor placed any other cache are actually Robin and June. But then again maybe not because Robin does not like people who use pseudonyms.

Mystery solved, I think. Quite elementary really ...

Right, the e-mail address given in the cache logbook is tonywale@compuserve.com [/b](also given on another cache site)

Now, if we look at Robins website http://www.gpss.co.uk/uklinks.htm we see that a Tony Wale is shown as a partner in GPSS.

So it would seem that Tony Wale, (half of the Tony and Bonnie team) is is a very good pal of Robin.

Now thats fine with me as long as Tony and Bonnie don't take over from Robin where he left off when his caches were archived.

Play the game and we will all be happy.

[This message has been edited by What'sHeUpTo (edited 28 November 2001).]

November 28, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by What'sHeUpTo:

Now, I am prepared to be charitable, perhaps Robin has placed this cache for someone else though I doubt it.

Or could it be that Tony and Bonnie who have never found nor placed any other cache are actually Robin and June. But then again maybe not because Robin does not like people who use pseudonyms.

Mystery solved, I think. Quite elementary really ...

Right, the e-mail address given in the cache logbook is tonywale@compuserve.com [/b](also given on another cache site)

Now, if we look at Robins website http://www.gpss.co.uk/uklinks.htm we see that a Tony Wale is shown as a partner in GPSS.

So it would seem that Tony Wale, (half of the Tony and Bonnie team) is is a very good pal of Robin.

Now thats fine with me as long as Tony and Bonnie don't take over from Robin where he left off when his caches were archived.

Play the game and we will all be happy.

[This message has been edited by What'sHeUpTo (edited 28 November 2001).]

November 29, 2001

SCOTTWORLD

Not much chance of that on here.

It will get in the way of the "HATELOCK" Forum.

Now we can-not have that now, can we

------------------

Phredd

November 29, 2001

I guess, to me, the difference is that that is up-front commercial and has been organised openly, presumably with some financial benefit to geocaching.com. I presume the "Project APE" caches were also arranged in advance, with some bebfit going to geocaching.com.

The gpss stuff was pretending to be non-commercial (and now "public domain", whatever that means in this context) and was trying to get a free ride...

Whatever.

------------------

Purrs... LazyLeopard

November 29, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by Scottworld:
Hmmm.... not quite sure that it is still in the spirit of the sport.

Amateur only etc...

Reminds me of Paintball, GO-Karting and Its-a-knockout.

I think this whole commercial thing is unavoidable, and we need to be a bit more pragmatic as to how we handle it.

Would we archive any caches set up by this Playtime company, (as they will actually be charging people to go hunt for them.)

Ah, and there's the rub!

Now, I admit it, I'm a Radio Amateur enthusiast, so if you want anal retentive, I can point you in the right direction!

The real problem that any hobby (in the 21st century) has to address is how it will make enough money to survive. In fact, this is a problem that pastimes have always had to address (The London Wireless Club charged members to be members, and most other amateur clubs need money to survive).

Now, when you look at clubs and organisations, they all charge fees to be members. Some of the worst, in my opinion as a non-golfer, are golf clubs!

Amateur Radio and Geocaching are amongst the few where you don't need to join any "club" to take part. And long may they remain so. However, the downside of this situation is there is no money to do "great" things with (and as an opponent of hobbies run by Committee, I'm in favour of that) So, it is a sort of Anarchistic situation.

That does not mean that there are no rules, just that the rules are set by general agreement.

The problems come when one, or more, people appear to over step the 'rules'.

Now we have a problem. There are no rules, but there are rules that are not set out...

In a non-regulated system, in my opinion, the people who want to limit other peoples freedoms have to accept that these other people may actually have a right to do what they are doing. Unfortunately, the same rights that are afforded to people can be abused.

Non-more-so than the thorny issue of commerciallism.

As someone who has had a job since I was 16, I don't want to tell people who may, or may not, have been employed what is 'commercial'. However, if you want a long arguement, then try to an advertising!

The ultimate will be something like happened to me. A fellow radio Amateur (a few years ago) said he worked for "the people in the yellow vans" - I said I worked for MEB (Which was a fact, not an advert) and I thought he worked for the GPO (at that time, they had yellow vans!) but he actually worked for the AA. ;-)

Is asking you all to visit the Merry Christmas cache advertising? ;-)

------------------

--... ...--

Morseman

November 30, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by Scottworld:

Would we archive any caches set up by this Playtime company, (as they will actually be charging people to go hunt for them.)

Hmmm! I could be wrong, but I don't think these caches will ever appear on Geocaching.com because they will be set up solely for those companies who have paid for the "team building" event.

Happy caching

November 30, 2001

K - points in order -

1. Too many in one area.

It doesn't say anything about this in the rules, but hopes that they are interesting. Surely it's not the quantity but quality that counts. I've already posted about enjoying certain caches because of the location/view/other activities available. I also mentioned that I took all Sunday to do three caches in close proximity purely because of the quality of the locations - and I'd intended to try to do more.

2. Commercialism.

It exists everytime I visit Geocaching or any other website - why pick on this particular type.

3. Navicaching.

I wouldn't have known about the other cache websites until this spat started. However again there's nothing to say we can't post caches on multiple sites. P.S. There's more than just Robins on Navicache now.

End of the day, some people who never visited these caches got them taken away, a significant number of caches for those of us near them. My pennies worth - they didn't bother me, I visited them, enjoyed the locations/hunt and so did my kids.

At the end of the day, surely if you don't agree with them - don't visit them.

Ok that's my attempt at moderation - sorry all other peacekeepers are otherwise involved. I'll shut up now for a bit more...

November 30, 2001

P.S. WhatsHeUpTo. Just registered an account just to flame? Why not enter your details as if you've an opinion you should be prepared to stand up and say it.

November 30, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by davehinns:
P.S. WhatsHeUpTo. Just registered an account just to flame? Why not enter your details as if you've an opinion you should be prepared to stand up and say it.

Hear Hear

November 30, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by davehinns:
WhatsHeUpTo. Just registered an account just to flame? Why not enter your details as if you've an opinion you should be prepared to stand up and say it.

I can understand why anybody should hide their identity when it comes to anything in connection with Lovelock. See my post in "What is going on here" dated 8th November in reply to MBrett http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000143.html

Where I said "I have also objected to Robin himself when he chose to telephone me after hunting me down using my e-mail address and domain name. then he even went so far as to consult polling lists and other sources, to discover more personal details about me and my family, and circulated this info to others. A WARNING TO OTHERS, KEEP YOUR PSEUDONYMS. (and use a disposable e-mail address like Yahoo etc)"

Tim

November 30, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by timp:
A WARNING TO OTHERS, KEEP YOUR PSEUDONYMS.

Hear hear

December 1, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by timp:
A WARNING TO OTHERS, KEEP YOUR PSEUDONYMS.

Tim[/b]

Hear hear, hear hear...

December 1, 2001

Well, hide behind you anonymousity if you wish. Personally I've not objected to anyone mailing me, unless they are rude, and it's not happened yet. Neither have I had spam from belonging to this forum. I only wish Yahoo, hotmail etc could say the same.

P.S. You can set rules in most mail clients to reject mail from certain people if you wish.

December 1, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by timp:
See my post in "What is going on here" dated 8th November in reply to MBrett http://forums.Groundspeak.com/ubb/Forum17/HTML/000143.html

Tim

Ah yes interesting URL. Lets see...

Moss Trooper objecting because "Problem is this.. too many in too short a time and a total disregard for Geocaching and the forums.. thats the crux. "

1. Didn't know you were only allowed to place so many in a set time - what is this - I can't find it anywhere.

2. Disregard for Geocaching - or someones thoughts about it. Its been trashed out about the no CD's so they've been removed.

3....and the forums.. Didn't know you had to belong to the forums to be considered a proper geocacher. Can't find that in the rules either.

And Tim, you do make it sound like Robin set out with a vengence against you. To be honest you could probably find out most peoples details with a 5 minute search on a couple of websites. So one phone call, possible not wanted but no necessarily that annoying. Multiple phones calls etc would be, spamming you would be, but I don't think thats what you said...

As I've said before, at the end of the day it's fun, a hobby, something to do on a Sunday afternoon etc. Lets just keep it that way eh!

December 1, 2001

o many in too short a time and a total disregard for Geocaching and the forums.. thats the crux. "

1. Didn't know you were only allowed to place so many in a set time - what is this - I can't find it anywhere.

2. Disregard for Geocaching - or someones thoughts about it. Its been trashed out about the no CD's so they've been removed.

3....and the forums.. Didn't know you had to belong to the forums to be considered a proper geocacher. Can't find that in the rules either.

And Tim, you do make it sound like Robin set out with a vengence against you. To be honest you could probably find out most peoples details with a 5 minute search on a couple of websites. So one phone call, possible not wanted but no necessarily that annoying. Multiple phones calls etc would be, spamming you would be, but I don't think thats what you said...

As I've said before, at the end of the day it's fun, a hobby, something to do on a Sunday afternoon etc. Lets just keep it that way eh!

Hello Dick, er sorry I meant Dave

Yes it is a fun Hobby but we cant get away from that man for people like you keep bringing his name back for us to read about Now give it a rest and let us lovelock free happy cachers get back to our fun hobby,

If you love the man that much , then why not Join him ? where ever he is , HE doesn't need to explain him self to anyone on the forum as he seems to have you to do it for him , HE'S using you and you cant even see it, thats the way he does things,so get a bit of sense and forget about him

------------------

The Northumbrian

December 1, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by davehinns:

As I've said before, at the end of the day it's fun, a hobby, something to do on a Sunday afternoon etc. Lets just keep it that way eh!

[/b]

You have hit the nail on the head. THIS IS A HOBBY - it is not a means of advertising your business, and yes, 'Lets just keep it that way' - Hurrah!!

This is the main crux of the matter, and if this hobby is to survive, and stand a chance of expanding we all have to work together.

To Robin Lovelock this was not a hobby - you only had to take note of the fact that he was placing more caches than he visited - please remember he once himself said 'seems like a great hobby - if only we had time for it' and to take note of the number of times he had promoted his business in the process to see that this, to him, was nothing more than a publicity excercise.

He was asked on numerous occasions not to advertise his business, but ignored this, and indeed the number of caches kept rising, and when he did log visits, many were to his own caches!!! Is that really playing the game???

Would he have done this if he did not have time for this hobby for no reason? Myself and many others think not. Had Robin Lovelock stopped placing his CD's and repeating his web site address half a dozen times on the cache pages we would have been happy. What has annoyed most of us is that he did not do this and continued even showing cheesy pictures of himself grinning inanely into the camera on the cache pages.

We asked him to play fair and he chose not to.

It is a 'rule' in this country not to 'bill stickers' advertising events - yes, I concede that it still takes place, but people who carry this out understand the consequences. Robin Lovelock was aware that what he was doing was upsetting people and chose to ignore this. The consequence is that his caches have been archived.

For goodness sakes, this man did not learn, and does not behave in a manner that benefits Geocaching.

Rincewind & Luggage

December 1, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by davehinns:
Well, hide behind you anonymousity if you wish. Personally I've not objected to anyone mailing me, unless they are rude, and it's not happened yet. Neither have I had spam from belonging to this forum. I only wish Yahoo, hotmail etc could say the same.

P.S. You can set rules in most mail clients to reject mail from certain people if you wish.

You missed the point. Some time ago the e-mail address of finders was displayed to the owner of a cache in the cache log. My e-mail address uses my domain name which is the name of my business (which I do not advertise through caching). Robin took the trouble to track me down in order to telephone me. I was indignant and cold during the conversation. He asked for my surname which I refused. Surely this is enough for anybody to realise that I value my privacy, not Robin. He took the trouble to then consult polling lists and other sources to discover more about me and my family, he then sent me an e-mail containing this information to demonstrate his cleverness and at the same time cc'd this to others.

Dave, tell me, HONESTLY, would you like me to do that to you?

PS. Did you ever get the catch on your Wife's Sienna fixed ?

December 1, 2001

be happy."

Now, my contention is that Robin started this flame war (if that's what you wish to call it) by opening the whole tin of worms again.

I think you and Cacher Jane8276 should withdraw your statement that I registered for the purpose of starting a flame.

However, I am willing to be judged by my peers (unlike some I can think of). If the majority of subscribers to this forum think that my contribution is of little or no value and I should go away, then I will.

It's easy to behave like a gentleman/woman

December 2, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by What'sHeUpTo:

If the majority of subscribers to this forum think that my contribution is of little or no value and I should go away, then I will.

Pity this wasn't the thoughts of Lovelock.

What'sHeUpTo.......

You have my backing, you've made a lot of valid points on this forum. Unlike some who have spouted off without first getting all the facts.

[This message has been edited by f-stop (edited 02 December 2001).]

December 2, 2001

quote:
Originally posted by What'sHeUpTo:

If the majority of subscribers to this forum think that my contribution is of little or no value and I should go away, then I will.

Pity this wasn't the thoughts of Lovelock.

What'sHeUpTo.......

You have my backing, you've made a lot of valid points on this forum. Unlike some who have spouted off without first getting all the facts.

[This message has been edited by f-stop (edited 02 December 2001).]

December 2, 2001

Hum It now seems I have to defend myself... that's worrying.

Ok. First from Northumbrian - Hello Dick. Nope my names Dave - I hope that's not name calling 'cos there's no need for that. I'm just expressing an opinion. If people with differing views don't discuss thewm then there's no chance of learning something new.

P.S. Ricewind & luggage I think put the case against the best.

TimP - if you want to find out details about me feel free - I'm a very boring person. Nope never got that catch fixed, it got relegated to a bottom drawer and replaced with a palm 3 now a palm 505. But I take your point about privacy and respect that.

WhatsHeUpto - Nope I didn't mean to accuse, just question - hence the question mark at the end of the sentence.

"If the majority of subscribers to this forum think that my contribution is of little or no value and I should go away, then I will."

Nope I think everyones opinion is valid - how else could we have meaningful discussions and reach agreements (or not )

f-stop - Unlike some who have spouted off without first getting all the facts.

You taking to me (in best gansta voice )

Right - above all written with humour in case the smilies don't come out.

Next point - personally I think if Robin started this topic he should at least have continued and answered some of his critics - maybe he feels this would just inflame it more - but it does appear to be a little like stiring.

Anyhow - this isn't getting us anywhere and I won't post anymore on this thread. Life's too short to get annoyed with people I don't really know - there's much more annoying people in BMW's on the M4 in the morning...

December 2, 2001