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brackman1066

Etiquette question

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47 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

If this activity becomes as negative as it appears to have become for Lone.R, you can bet that I'll archive my caches and stop caching, rather than hang on and complain about how things are now vs. how they used to be

 

You might consider blocking me in the forums.

 

49 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

I've encouraged them to give up the activity

 

I encourage you to give up the forums. See the similarity? You want me to give up a whole pastime that I sometimes find quite enjoyable. I want to be able to continue to enjoy caches like the above example. I'm not giving up the cause, I think I might influence some readers out there (including those in my area, and I think I may have).

 

So on the same note I'm suggesting you give up reading and posting in the forums since my posts irritate you to the point that you must "ad nauseam" ;) point out how irritating my posts are.  

 

50 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

allowing themselves to step away from something they apparently find so unlikeable

 

 

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33 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Actually, I do feel I'm contributing and trying to make things better in my neck of the woods, but as a finder not a hider.

 

For example here's a log I posted this year...

 

(I also added a favorite point---by the way, only 9% FPs on this decent cache, that's because half the logs were from a group of about 50 cachers who came through on a special holiday looking to find a LOT of caches that day to qualify for challenges, and break their last month's record---they don't do FPs since most don't see the caches they log as find, as a team.)

 

 I have NO issues with your log or why you chose to give it a FP but I do have a problem with you bringing up logs of others that in no way affected the enjoyment of the cache you found.  The logs belong to the cachers who posted them and tell readers more about the cachers than they do about the CO or the cache, in this particular situation.  

 

As an aside, is that Plano you mention the plastic ammo can container?  Those are hit or miss for me. I've found some dry as a bone and others filled with water.

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28 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

You might consider blocking me in the forums.

 

Why?  Just because you have a different viewpoint than mine?  That's not how things should work.  Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I want to "censor" you from my view within the forums and not see what you have to say, especially if it's like the cache example you just provided.  That's something I rarely see from you but it's different and if I blocked you, I would have never known about it.

 

However, even within that you managed to throw in a dig toward "power cachers" and their attitude toward not awarding FPs as well as their intent to find as many caches as they could to qualify for challenges, NONE of which altered your enjoyment of the cache in question.

 

42 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

I encourage you to give up the forums. See the similarity?...

 

So on the same note I'm suggesting you give up reading and posting in the forums since my posts irritate you to the point that you must "ad nauseam" ;) point out how irritating my posts are.  

 

It's not similar.  They're two completely different things.  One person is talking about geocaching within the forums while one is about the forums.  When have I expressed any negativity toward these forums in the same manner that you post negatively about geocaching?  If I didn't like these forums, you can bet I wouldn't be posting on here.  When things start to get to me, for whatever reason, I take a break like I did this spring.

 

Perhaps argumentum ad infinitum would be more appropriate.  It's not that your posts are irritating. They're just, well, predictable, although I will say the log example you just provided is a change from your normal MO.  Those are the types of posts I rarely see from you, which is why it seems you don't enjoy it, even occasionally. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, coachstahly said:

As an aside, is that Plano you mention the plastic ammo can container?  Those are hit or miss for me. I've found some dry as a bone and others filled with water.

 

Yes. And I agree, they can be hit and miss (but more hit than miss). This one was already 2 years old,  very dry, in great shape. The owner checks every 6 months whether it needs it or not and keeps it looking good. 

Edited by L0ne.R

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43 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

NONE of which altered your enjoyment of the cache in question.

You keep making this point, as if each of us exists in a bubble, isolated from everyone else playing the game.

 

I'll quote thebruce0 again...

On 7/11/2019 at 10:38 AM, thebruce0 said:

So I'd hope that people who cache "their own way" DO think about the effect their caching has on the community and cache owners overall. You may be allowed to cache that way, but consider if you're hurting the hobby in your region, and DON'T blame the cache owner if they're bothered a growing sense of carelessness.

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47 minutes ago, coachstahly said:

However, even within that you managed to throw in a dig toward "power cachers" and their attitude toward not awarding FPs as well as their intent to find as many caches as they could to qualify for challenges, NONE of which altered your enjoyment of the cache in question.

 

If I had filtered for only high percent FPs I would have missed this one. It would have had a high percentage if it hadn't had the large group come through.

They may end up discouraging more hides like this. Their etiquette was questionable (just to bring this somewhat inline with the forum title -_-). 

 

Good thing I know of a few hiders in my area that match my geocaching style, so when they hide a cache I can make it a point to set aside some time for their caches. Oh, if only there were a way to filter for good cache owners (anywhere I travel) who are like the guy who hid that Plano in a nice location and keeps it in good condition. I promise you my griping would decrease in the forums. ^_^

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3 minutes ago, niraD said:

You keep making this point, as if each of us exists in a bubble, isolated from everyone else playing the game.

 

LOne.R enjoyed this cache so much that they gave it a FP, despite the fact that 50 plus cachers logged it on a numbers run and didn't give it a favorite point.  Their actions had no bearing on the enjoyment experienced by this specific cacher at that specific cache on that specific date. 

 

So you're saying that an individual's enjoyment of a cache is dependent upon how everyone else plays?  My enjoyment of a cache isn't influenced by what other people do or don't do, or say or don't say in their logs.  The only time other people might cause me not to enjoy a cache is if they're careless and cause it to be removed from play, either temporarily or permanently, but that's a different thing because I don't even have the opportunity to decide if I enjoyed the cache or not.  I'll filter caches and add them to my list if I think it might be something I enjoy, based on their awarding a FP and reaching a certain level of them, but I will be the one to make a determination on whether or not I enjoyed the cache once I find it.  I have found some high FP caches (even some high FP% caches) that I didn't enjoy as much as others did and were just bland caches to me.  I was just in the Smoky Mountain National Park and did some of the caches there and in Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg.  Many of them were high FP caches and most of them were just OK.  A few I enjoyed and liked better while there was one I enjoyed quite a bit and gave a FP to.  As an aside, it was also a Plano ammo can in great shape.  My personal enjoyment of a cache IS completely isolated from everyone else playing the game.

 

17 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

If I had filtered for only high percent FPs I would have missed this one

 

Did you?  Apparently not, as you would have missed it and not been able to use it as an example.

 

19 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

They may end up discouraging more hides like this.

 

Why?  Just because they don't have a higher FP%?  I'm guessing the CO was pleased to see your log (as well as the others that awarded it a FP) but discontent to see the logs of the group that came through.  However, while it might end up discouraging the CO, the probability is just as high (50%) that it won't discourage this CO to hide more like this.

 

21 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Their etiquette was questionable

 

I disagree.  What did they do wrong?  Did they destroy the cache?  Did they toss out a throwdown?  A bad log doesn't break etiquette guidelines.  Find the cache, sign the log, log it online.  It's still up to the finder to log the cache online, even if all it is is TFTC, which is a horrible log but they're doing what's asked of them, even if it is crappy.  If you're going to say they weren't all there when they found the cache, then you might have an argument I'd be willing to listen but that wasn't an issue you raised.  However, even that, while something I'm not a fan of, didn't affect your individual enjoyment of this particular cache on this particular day.  Why is it so wrong for a group to cache to qualify for challenges where numbers outweigh experiences?  While I certainly wouldn't do it on a regular basis, there's a chance (if I find a challenge I'd be interested in attempting that required higher numbers) I'd do it.  However, seeing as how I'm not much attracted to that style of challenge any more, the odds are slim.  However, does that make my etiquette questionable, just because I'm trying to find X number of caches?  Can't I find X number of caches and still appreciate a well done cache that's well maintained too?

 

35 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Oh, if only there were a way to filter for good cache owners (anywhere I travel) who are like the guy who hid that Plano in a nice location and keeps it in good condition.

 

That would certainly be awesome but there's still no guarantee that you'll find the cache you hope to find.  Things happen that the CO can't control.  I found a cache that the last finder said was in great shape and stocked with great swag, two days after the log from that finder.  It had been muggled and all that was left was the ziplock bag, with the less desirable swag left.  The ammo can was gone.  Granted, that was one example and it's more likely that you'd probably have better luck.  I just don't think GS has that capability to do what you wish.  I think I remember a couple emails going out a few months ago saying that they think we might enjoy "this" cache .  I had no interest in either cache they thought I might enjoy.  If they can't get a single cache right, then how will they be able to put together a list of caches that we might enjoy?

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On 7/15/2019 at 3:54 PM, coachstahly said:

 

So you're saying that an individual's enjoyment of a cache is dependent upon how everyone else plays?

 

If he doesn't, I will, though I might phrase it slightly different.  I would not say that an individuals enjoyment of the game is *dependent* upon how everyone else plays, but I will say that and individuals enjoyment of the game is absolutely influenced by how others play.   

 

Suppose a cacher is primarily focused on quality.   They get no enjoyment from finding caches that offer nothing more than an increment to their find count.  

 

Now suppose this cacher lives in an area where there is a strong growing trend for caching for the numbers.   It has become an area where cachers are satisfied with lots of caches that will add to their find count and don't really care about the quality of the hide.   Cache owners, seeing that the geocacher mentality has trended towards quantity, starts putting out tons of easily found caches, saturating areas with nothing but easily found caches.  They stop maintaining their caches because they think that finders don't care if it's maintained or not, as long as a log can be signed (or, if necessary, a throw down made to that DNFs never happen).  

 

How any one cacher signs the log, or how many geocaches they find in a day isn't going to influence an individuals enjoyment of the game, but was suggested, geocachers don't live in a bubble, and when a number mentality takes over an area, those that try to exclusively focus on quality are impacted.

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1 hour ago, NYPaddleCacher said:

 

If he doesn't, I will, though I might phrase it slightly different.  I would not say that an individuals enjoyment of the game is *dependent* upon how everyone else plays, but I will say that and individuals enjoyment of the game is absolutely influenced by how others play.   

 

Suppose a cacher is primarily focused on quality.   They get no enjoyment from finding caches that offer nothing more than an increment to their find count.  

 

Now suppose this cacher lives in an area where there is a strong growing trend for caching for the numbers.   It has become an area where cachers are satisfied with lots of caches that will add to their find count and don't really care about the quality of the hide.   Cache owners, seeing that the geocacher mentality has trended towards quantity, starts putting out tons of easily found caches, saturating areas with nothing but easily found caches.  They stop maintaining their caches because they think that finders don't care if it's maintained or not, as long as a log can be signed (or, if necessary, a throw down made to that DNFs never happen).  

 

How any one cacher signs the log, or how many geocaches they find in a day isn't going to influence an individuals enjoyment of the game, but was suggested, geocachers don't live in a bubble, and when a number mentality takes over an area, those that try to exclusively focus on quality are impacted.

 

I was referring to a single individual example that was provided.  Despite this, the cacher still felt it necessary to call out those cachers who didn't award it a FP and were only caching toward a challenge goal.  Why should someone else's actions on this particular cache have any bearing on the enjoyment that someone might experience?  Why should their actions even be worth the time to bring up on a cache that the finder liked so much they gave it a FP?  The other cachers' actions on this cache were irrelevant to the cacher's enjoyment of this particular cache. 

 

My point is that enjoyment of a single cache is truly a bubble experience because it has nothing to do with previous finders' logging habits, lack of FPs awarded, power caching finders, poor maintenance habits, hides for numbers cachers, or anything else that someone might have done previously.  It is intrinsically tied to the experience the cacher has, at that moment, apart from all the other finders' or hiders' methods of playing.  True enjoyment can be had on a rather bleh hide, like the FP I gave on a bison tube hide (poorly maintained) in a cemetery that was awarded because of the local who chatted with me about the history of the area.  It can be had on a nice hike in the woods that leads to an ammo can with an amazing view.  It can be had on a well maintained cache, that's labeled correctly as a small, in the woods.  How someone else chooses to play is irrelevant to the enjoyment of these particular caches at that particular moment in time.  These individual experiences hold an innate value to the finder, outside of the actions of anyone affiliated with the cache at any point.

 

I bolded the above part because it relates to continued enjoyment being harder to find.  This is a much more general and expansive point being raised than the one I'm making.  I fully understand this.  I don't dispute this.  In all the chaff that's out there, you have to work so much harder to find caches you hope live up to the experience you want.  Continued enjoyment in an environment like that is certainly harder to find.

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