Exploding caches - what to do?

[Guest Doppler]

The recent string of detonated caches is a bit disturbing to me.

 

Get enough of these bomb scares, and it could reflect poorly on Geocaching in general. I'd hate to see cities start to pass local ordinances banning Geocaches!

 

So... what can we do to minimize these Bomb Squad interventions?

 

My first thought is that if we didn't house them in ammo containers, people might be less inclined to blow them up.

 

Any other thoughts?

 

 

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-- John Doppler

[Guest Zuckerruebensirup]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doppler:

The recent string of detonated caches is a bit disturbing to me.

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What incidents are you refering to?

 

quote:

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Originally posted by Doppler:

My first thought is that if we didn't house them in ammo containers, people might be less inclined to blow them up.

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Apparently not...since this one was in a tupperware type container.

[Guest JamieZ]

Recent string?

 

Where? I think if any were ever detonated, we'd all hear about them. As far as I know, there has only been one. (and now I just see mention of a second one)

 

First

Second

 

I guess geometrically, two points can form a line, but I hardly think two caches make a string.

 

To defend the caches, I know the first was a tupperware container. I haven't read about the second cache, but even if it was an ammo box, the score is even. I don't think ammo boxes are to blame. Paranoia (and in some cases, legitimate concern) are to blame, and unless we stop hiding things (which is the essence of geocaching itself) this cannot be corrected, in my opinion.

 

Jamie

[Guest Doppler]

air enough -- I guess two incidents doesn't really make a "string". But I worry that if cachers aren't more careful, we'll see more and more of these incidents, and that may eventually result in problems for all Geocachers.

 

I agree that blowing up any untended package seems extreme and paranoiac on the surface, unless you're the bomb squad member who's responsible for ensuring that no-one gets hurt by an explosive device -- including your own team members. I suppose if you're the one who has to investigate a "mystery package", it's much better to be safe than sorry.

 

But getting back to my original question... what can be done to prevent (or at least minimize) these incidents in the future?

 

Labelling the container with "Geocaching.com" clearly didn't help, but I'm wondering if having a name and phone number clearly printed on the lid might avoid misunderstandings. I'm not sure what Bomb Squad policy is on "suspicious" packages with contact info on them.

 

Planting caches on or near railroad tracks is probably a bad idea.

 

I still think that planting caches in unlabelled ammo cannisters is inviting destruction by the bomb squad. C'mon guys, these are munitions containers! Don't you think that in and of itself might alarm the bomb squad?

 

And obtaining permission from the owner/authorities would probably go a long way towards preventing this sort of thing... Many, many caches are "unsanctioned", and ones in heavily trafficked urban areas are almost certainly going to cause alarm if they're discovered.

 

Or am I way off base here?

 

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-- John Doppler

[Guest hipsterdoofus]

why would something being in a ammo box make them think its a bomb? i doubt that many bombs are made from ammo boxes, in fact I've never heard of such a thing, so I don't think that would be

the issue.

 

HipsterDo0fus

Edmond, OK

[Guest Doppler]

If I came across an ammo cannister where one shouldn't be, I would instantly be more wary of it than I would be of Tupperware. Don't you think a container intended to hold explosive ordnance would raise some concern?

 

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-- John Doppler

[Guest JamieZ]

John,

 

I agree with Hipsterdoofus that an ammo box is an unlikely container for a bomb, but just the same, I know that an ammo box would cause me slightly more concern than a tupperware container if I found one in an unusual location.

 

That still doesn't dissuade me from using an ammo box for a cache, simply because some people will be paranoid with any container, ammo box or tupperware.

 

I don't think we can protect against someone being paranoid. Certainly there are some locations that are inherently bad places for caches, but if I put my ammo box out in the woods and someone thinks its a bomb, there isn't much I could have done differently.

 

Jamie

[Guest madphatboy2]

Tupperware isn't any safer. At least not in my area. A few mos. ago, someone put a tupperware bomb (?) in front of the grocery store trying to blow up the store. Too bad they were too stupid to get it to work right. But if it were in an ammo can, even if it did work right, it would have had a more difficult time causing a big explosion due to the tough nature of an ammo can.

 

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MPB2

 

I wander from here to there looking for. . .my mind? And then I find it in the cache.

[+travisl]

FYI, my ammo box was removed by the Washington State Patrol bomb squad. See this thread for details.

 

I'll keep using ammo boxes as cache containers, but I'm wondering what else I can do to make my containers not raise suspicions.

 

(Yeah... hide them better)

[+MattandLaura]

when can start by being more responsible when we hide caches. If it is a remote area maybe make the hiding place more noticable but if you put a cache in a well visited area make it small or hide it very well or use the location you want the person to visit the place to get the coordinates for the cache

 

[+travisl]

The thing is, I didn't think the cache was in that 'visible' of a location. Some folks had difficulty because of the number of people in the area, but the cache itself was in the back of the rest area, against the chain link fence, hidden under salal and two douglas fir branches. It was well away from any buildings, although it was fairly close to the exit road.

 

In retrospect, even though this was the 25th cache in the "I Hate I-5" series, it probably wasn't a good idea to write the cache name on the outside of the cache. The thought never crossed my mind, since the first 24 others never seemed to cause a problem.

 

Maybe a clear tupperware container would help, although having read about the other tupperware container that was blown up, I don't know.

[KITandSHAE]

I know that this is less fun, because it means that sometimes people will say no, but I think cachers should really be asking people before they put a cache up in urban or very public areas, or on private property (I presume the caches that cause bomb-scares are placed in urban areas).

 

If you have an interesting building, or city park, or monument that you think deserves a cache, I think you should ask local authorities, and tell them in detail what you plan to do. If they say no - well, then, too bad. But if they say yes - awesome: you've got an officially sanctioned cache and you don't have to worry about the problem any more.

 

It's hard to blame people for being reactionary about strange boxes deposited by strangers in or near public places. There's lots of remote places to hide caches that won't frighten people.

 

Here's an idea: We've tossed around the idea of placing a cache near an unknown but very cool attraction in our area. We thought we might ask the owner, and include brochures in the cache directing people to visit the site - and instructions on the cache site to bring five bucks for the entry fee. Then we have our interesting cache, and the museum has an incentive to allow us to put one on their property.

 

-- Kit

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doppler:

 

I still think that planting caches in unlabelled ammo cannisters is inviting destruction by the bomb squad. C'mon guys, these are munitions containers! Don't you think that in and of itself might alarm the bomb squad?

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The solution is simple. Make sure to label all of your ammo boxes with the official geocaching.com labels available here.

[+rdw]

Most of the blow'd up caches were tupperware, so it's not the ammo box factor. The key, as always, is to keep it from being accidentally found at all. I have 3 ammo boxes out in the wild and none of them have accidental finds. Because they are well hidden, far from any trails, even further from parking, and not in areas where other people would see you acting "suspiciously."

 

rdw

[BassoonPilot]

quote:

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Originally posted by rdw:

Most of the blow'd up caches were tupperware, so it's not the ammo box factor. The key, as always, is to keep it from being accidentally found at all.

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But don't forget to designate your caches with the official labels available

here.

[+15Tango]

I had just read this forum, then while looking at my local headlines, came across this article. http://www.startribune.com/stories/1557/2112918.html Even though it has nothing to do with geocaching, I thought they used an interesting choice of words. So, would that be a really great cache? Would it count as a one-time-only cache? Happy cachin'--15T

[+Doppler]

"Had a tough time finding this one! Took the high explosives, left flammable sneakers..."

 

-- Doppler

[markusby]

Histerdoofus writes:

 

why would something being in a ammo box make them think its a bomb? i doubt that many bombs are made from ammo boxes, in fact I've never heard of such a thing, so I don't think that would be

the issue.

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My reply:

 

Had you ever been in the military, especially working around explosives, you would know that ammo cans make AWESOME bombs. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, we used to make field-expedient claymores and the damage they would do was breathtaking.

 

You see, units working with explosives will pack C4 in the bottom after lining it with blasting caps.You use about three or four sticks with a normal sized one.

 

Then, after it is packed down good and tight, it is lined with cardboard and filled with all sorts of materials, such as nails, brass links, pieces of chain, etc...

 

When one of these go off, it effectively rids of anyone in a 50 meter radius and injurs people for many more. Therefore, if I headed up a bomb squad and someone called me and said there was a suspicious ammo can, I wouldn't even take a chance.

 

PS - anyone worried about me "telling" how to make a bomb, have no fear. There is a lot more to it than this and if someone actually can go out and find C4, the chances are they can make one anyway.

 

[This message was edited by markusby on April 10, 2002 at 07:16 AM.]

[ManaUser]

quote:

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Originally posted by Doppler:

Labelling the container with "Geocaching.com" clearly didn't help, but I'm wondering if having a name and phone number clearly printed on the lid might avoid misunderstandings. I'm not sure what Bomb Squad policy is on "suspicious" packages with contact info on them.

 

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-- John Doppler

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That seems like a very good idea to me. Particularly if you have a cell phone and normally carry it with you. In fact I still think an official geocache hotline would be a good idea.