DECLINED - [FEATURE] Map Downloads

[+texasgrillchef]

I have noticed that the Google maps download is no longer available to download when your saving a cache.

 

I do realize this has to do with licensing issues.

 

My question is this, When is this going to be resolved? If it can't be resolved. Is Groundspeak/geocaching.com looking into other providers of Maps (Such as Bing) so that we can download the maps and save them?

 

Doesnt the Map producers such as google realize that not everyone, nor does everywhere we want to go have access to the internet for viewing the maps "live". That people need to be able to download maps for viewing in areas that are not, & do not have internet access at all?

 

I love my iPhone, I love my iPad. But as good as they are. When your in an area with no data/cell service. Cacheing becomes impossible to do using the Groundspeak app, or even web page.

 

Sure there are other 3rd party alternatives. Yet as nice as those are, they still aren't perfect and even those aren't able to download maps when you don't have internet capability.

 

TGC

[Moun10Bike]

Both Google and Bing have implemented licensing restrictions that prevent offline saving of their tiles. OpenStreetMaps is the only offline option at this time.

[+texasgrillchef]

Both Google and Bing have implemented licensing restrictions that prevent offline saving of their tiles. OpenStreetMaps is the only offline option at this time.

 

ummm,

 

Thank you for taking the time to make a response. However, I allready knew that!

 

My question was, If these new restrictions are something that they are just flat out not going to allow under any circumstances. Or If they have options open for leasing/purchasing the licensing to allow download capability.

 

My point being is that if they just closed it up, & aren't open for licensing agreements then its a closed case. At least until they decide otherwise.

 

If it's a matter of obtaining licensing agreements by Groundspeak/geoaching.com with google/bing. Then thats a different story. EVEN if the financial requirments are beyond the financial capabilities for Groundspeak to pay to Google/Bing.

 

Next question:

 

I have noticed a couple of apps, as well as a couple of mapping software programs I use on my laptop that make use of maps. These are obviously maps that are offline.

 

Is Groundspeak/geocaching.com looking into OTHER alternatives (besides opensource maps) for downloadable maps data? Such as from Delorme, NAVTEQ, & a few others?

 

TGC

 

P.S.

 

I have finally received a few responses back from several Navigation apps used on the iPhone/iPad. These apps use Map datea from NAVTEQ. They all are allowed to download a certain amount of map data to keep in "cache" status. This is for when one is in an area with limited or no data connectivity. The apps in question have LICENSED the use & capability of NAVTEQ's map data to be stored/cached offline.

 

Maybe Groundspeak/geocaching.com should look into the POSSIBILITY of licensing NAVTEQ's map data for use with the geocaching.com app. I do realize that the financial outlay to license the map data form NAVTEQ may possibly be beyond the financial capabilities of Groundspeak. However... They should at least look into the possibility and the cost factor.

Edited December 13, 2011 by texasgrillchef

[Moun10Bike]

My point being is that if they just closed it up, & aren't open for licensing agreements then its a closed case. At least until they decide otherwise.

 

This.

 

Since this forum is for bug reports and feature requests, I'll ask that you direct your other questions to contact@geocaching.com. You will get a personalized response there.

[+lennie.BE]

Sorry but I don't understand why texasgrillchef should send a mail about this to gs directly. After all this thread IS a feature request or a bug report. It's about a feature that was present and isn't anymore. So I think that we -the app users-deserve to know about gs's opinion on the questions of texasgrillchef.

[Moun10Bike]

I apologize then because I apparently don't understand the request. Our app uses a map system that relies download of map tiles. There are only handful of providers out there, and the two biggest - Google and Bing - have recently changed their licensing to prevent users from saving those tiles for offline use. This leaves only OpenStreetMap, which does not have these restrictions, and that's why we are moving to them.

 

Other map data providers like TeleAtlas and Navteq provide vector data, not map tiles. I think you will find very few mobile applications that use this data in a manner similar to what you are currently familiar with not only because of the exorbitant cost but also the substantial amount of coding necessary to create and run such a map system.

[+texasgrillchef]

I apologize then because I apparently don't understand the request. Our app uses a map system that relies download of map tiles. There are only handful of providers out there, and the two biggest - Google and Bing - have recently changed their licensing to prevent users from saving those tiles for offline use. This leaves only OpenStreetMap, which does not have these restrictions, and that's why we are moving to them.

 

Other map data providers like TeleAtlas and Navteq provide vector data, not map tiles. I think you will find very few mobile applications that use this data in a manner similar to what you are currently familiar with not only because of the exorbitant cost but also the substantial amount of coding necessary to create and run such a map system.

 

Ok.... My apologies for not communicating clearly my request.

 

In my original post. I was trying to communicate two things.

 

1. I was trying to communicate that I do fully understand about licensing agreements and all the issues of what can or can't be done based on those licensing agreements. I understand that in regards to some issues of those agreements that Google & Bing aren't going to budge no matter what you do or how much money you throw at them. They are the so called "gods" (Or they want to think so LOL!) So with regards to Bing & Google. I KNOW we can't do anything about them. They set the rules. So we move on, & find someone else. Maybe eventually Bing & Google will change their minds about their "issues" when they see less & less users using them for maps. I have allready made my complaints to google and bing about their maps & even their OWN iOS map progams directly. I no longer even use Googles &/or Bings own iOS maps apps.

 

2. My suggestion... which was & still is, to find ANOTHER company that can provide us the map information that we want & need for our iOS apps, & even online on the webpage. A company that has map data that we can actually download and use when we no longer have "Data" connection via our iOS devices. As well as map data that is accurate and has other information on the map data as well. Such as Parks, Cemeteries, County/state/international borders, Date lines, Time Zone Lines, Water featurs (Rivers, Lakes, etc..), Train tracks, etc.. as well as the roads of course. This was simply the suggestion that I was trying to make. Simply to find a company that can provide us the map data that we need & want even when "offline". My suggestion wasn't about trying to get different licensing arrangments with google or bing.

 

Now in regards to mapping...

 

OpenStreets isn't bad... The one thing I absolutely HATE about OpenStreets maps, is the colour. The Interstate roadways here in the USA don't have a distinctive colour that stands out from other roads. The light blue background is VERY hard to read and see!!!!!

 

I don't know how much control if any at all that your developers have on changing the colours of openstreetmaps... but if they DO, it would be nice to change the colours to something easier to see, read & understand. Especially with the interstate roadways.

 

I was aware there were different types of mapping data. Vector & Tiles, I honestly had totally forgotten about that and didn't realize that the geocaching.com app, was using tile data rather than vector. Each have their advantages thats for sure. Each have their disadvantages as well. Because of this I don't expect nor do I have any desire for geocaching.com to take the time or expense in changing the type of map data thats required for the gc app.

 

One additional question, if you can answer. If your not able too, then I understand. Is it possible to do map overlays on the map tile data?

 

TGC

[+StriblingWalk]

what about letting users import their own maps, like you can on a hand-held GPS? I could get detailed, 10-ft topo maps from gpsfiledepot.com for free.

 

Maybe this ought to be it's own feature request -- allow users to import their own map files instead of relying on openstreetmaps.

[+StriblingWalk]

not to mention, it would potentially be much faster to download and import your own maps than it is to save them from the app on the iPhone.

[+texasgrillchef]

what about letting users import their own maps, like you can on a hand-held GPS? I could get detailed, 10-ft topo maps from gpsfiledepot.com for free.

 

Maybe this ought to be it's own feature request -- allow users to import their own map files instead of relying on openstreetmaps.

 

Most GPS devices use map data that is vector based. Most smartphone apps, use tile based mapping.

All GPS mapping that is done with Satalite images is Tile based mapping.

 

Think of it like this. Tile based mapping is nothing more than an image, with basic GPS info about that tile. The software then plots the waypoint dots, and your current location point, on that image. It doesn't require much processor time or power.

 

Vector based mapping, doesn't include any images. It requires alot more processing power. Because it doesn't use images, it can't be used for imaged based maps, such as satalite images. Most all handheld GPS units, as well as those that are factory installed in vehicles use Vector based mapping. Although some new vehicles have started to use tile based mapping, as well as SOME NEWER handhelds. Especially on those GPS units that give you the capability of using Satalite images.

 

Most all (there are a few exceptions) smartphone apps are using tile based map data. This allows the app to be "faster" as well as save battery power.

 

Sadly after doing much research on map data over the last few years. The 3 main sources of Tiled map data are with Google, Bing & Opensource.

 

I don't know why there aren't more, as the Satalite images are all coming from just 4 different satalites, all owned & operated by our own US Goverment. So the images themselvs don't have any copyright. However, its the additional info added by google, bing etc that cause thsoe to be copyrighted.

 

Sadly, the issue with maps, downloading, and having available when your "offline" isn't just with geocaching & it's smartphone apps, but applies to everyone else too.

 

Whats sad, is that with most wireless dataplans being limeted with some form of caps, and still vast areas of the world that don't have wireless internet available, it surprises me that google & bing both no longer allow downloading of map data for viewing when your in those ares with no wireless access.

 

IMHO it's time for us to have our federal government start regulating GPS companies, as well as those providing map data. a GPS is only as good as the data we give it, and most have really bad data!

 

TGC