Groundspeak

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Geocaching topics are often related to the operational perceived pros and cons of the Groundspeak company itself. Rather than post this to a limited audience in the Off Topic forum I hope that we can all discuss the company and how it affects our geocaching experience here.

 

Here are some questions and issues which I see pop up in this forum with some regularity, and my opinions on them. If you don't care about my opinions (many of which are based on guesses, anecdotal evidence and few known facts) then this is a good place to bail!

 

Having a balanced perspective about the 800-pound gorilla of geocaching has to help all geocachers and I see lop-sided criticism more than understanding and praise in many threads.

 

I don't have anything to do with the company, no 'insider' contacts or information, but I do root for it because I mostly like what I see and believe that their approach to managing this site and to promoting the game of geocaching closely matches mine.

 

Some of the threads and posts in these forums are quite interesting to me, like the ever-controversial issues about Premium Memberships and Premium-members-only features, and the current contretemps about Souvenirs.

 

No, Groundspeak is not perfect, I see plenty of issues, concerns and blemishes. I am not a blind supporter. I have, however, watched this company as closely as an outsider can since I signed up in 2003 and I remain impressed. If Groundspeak were to go public I would buy into it. It appears to have stable management, a common and understandable mission, a vision for its future, a ten-year history of success, a huge international as-yet untapped market, to be well-run, well-funded, diverse and flexible. They sell a primary product (organized cache listings) which will continue to be in demand for the foreseeable future and which has relatively little maintenance and development cost. They appear to have built relationships with the major players in outdoor products related to the game. Management has recruited a staff of competent caring professionals and a cadre of volunteers who remain the company's most important asset, and that body of volunteers appears to be stable and dependable. Outside of non-profits such as the American Red Cross and American Heart Association Groundspeak leverages volunteers like no private company I've ever seen. Unlike many companies private or public which depend on a few key leaders it appears that if current ownership were to fall off the face of the Earth the company has a staff who could continue to grow the company. Anyone with any objectivity whatsoever has to love a company like that!

 

Groundspeak is secretive and sometimes snarky? Try asking your phone company what they are up to. Or your city manager. Collar an assistant manager at Wal-Mart and tell her what you think sux about the company. Every company, in fact every organization, operates with some degree of secrecy, they have to. Every employee of every company can come across on any given day as snarky. I want Groundspeak to employ managers and developers proficient at building the tools I use, not PR specialists. If they can't or don't communicate well that's perfectly acceptable and even common in the IT bidness. Even given the occasional lack of communication or snarky attitude (which is totally understandable and usually a misinterpreted bit of humor) when they do communicate I find Groundspeak et al to be the most open and accessible company I've ever dealt with. At several events each year you can meet and talk to Groundspeak ownership, staff and volunteers. I've met many of them, so can you, and I can tell you that when you do meet them they will talk about most anything that's on your mind, listen to and take your input seriously, and give you straight answers.

 

Groundspeak is distant and uncaring of what members want? That's a tough argument to sell when the company provides an elaborate (free!) discussion forum. Lackeys and Reviewers may not answer questions directly here very often but you can bet that they are reading them and taking them into consideration. Just watch the actions of the company - topics discussed here often result in action by the company even if they don't actively participate in the discussion. Aside from this discussion forum the company provides feedback mechanisms, which while perhaps a bit troublesome in function at the moment are obviously being watched. Groundspeak certainly could do a better job of responding to feedback here and elsewhere, but the fact that they are receptive and responsive far outweighs any lack of communication.

 

Groundspeak is too heavy-handed and restrictive? Again this forum refutes that. If I recall the history this forum was originally intended to be a place to discuss caches and cache issues. It has expanded, with Groundspeak's support, into much more than that. They have given us the ability to build an online international community and have been amazingly tolerant of gripes and criticism. The Volunteer Moderators do a very good job of enforcing the forum guidelines and keeping this place friendly. As long as you don't act out in a crude manner or make personal attacks you can pretty much discuss anything related to geocaching here, and discuss just about anything in Off Topic, a forum which is provided purely for fun. Yes, they do unnecessarily suppress discussion of competing products and services. That may be an artifact of the way Groundspeak conquered their market or a legitimate fear that some other site or product may successfully eat into their market. It's been my observation that what little competition Groundspeak has had have self-destructed without Groundspeak trying to keep their existence secret. But show me another private company that advertises for its competitors?

 

Groundspeak doesn't fully develop and test features before rolling them out? Sometimes a new feature or modification breaks something else? Otay, do you really want them to wait until something is perfect before releasing it? By that standard releases would be slow indeed, and expensive. My experience with them is that they do in fact do good development, testing and quality assurance while at the same time getting features delivered in a timely fashion. After a closed beta test putting it out for users to hammer away at then listening to their feedback and responding quickly is the best way to do development, and while the feedback mechanism may be broken I think they do a bang-up job of responding to fix issues even if they don't always communicate that very well.

 

Groundspeak might make money? Good for them! I hope the company gets rich so they can continue their amazing achievements.

 

Groundspeak might charge us to use a feature? Imagine that! Paying for what we use! How 1960s! I think $30/year to access this company's products and services is an incredible deal.

 

Groundspeak might find a way to 'monetize' a product or feature? Good for them! Sell TB and Geocoin numbers? What a business coup! Almost pure profit! Selling a database entry, now that's smart as all get out!

 

Groundspeak provides nice fun things which some might enjoy and allows those who are not interested to opt out? That's a problem? Really? Opt out and be done with it!

 

Instead of <insert any particular feature> Groundspeak should have spent the time/money/personnel resources doing something more important to me? This supposes that their priorities are determined by members, that they aren't smart enough to multitask, don't have parallel development streams, that they have to pull resources off of one project to work on another, that time spent on one project steals time from another, and that the folks developing <insert whatever project> would have otherwise been working on your pet project. That's a lot of suppositions, and if you spent any time in an IT development shop you would know that they are very unlikely to be correct.

 

Groundspeak is allowing <insert pet peeve, micros, whatever> to ruin geocaching? Groundspeak does not hide caches. Within some very broad guidelines Groundspeak publishes listings for caches that cachers hide. If there is a cache type, lack of maintenance, hide location or whatever that spoils your personal experience it's not Groundspeak's problem - they just list caches!

 

Groundspeak rules geocaching? Yes, because the vast majority of geocachers want them to! I believe that Groundspeak carefully weighs the issues and makes decisions based on what is good for the game. Yes, they sometimes make apparently arbitrary decisions that I don't agree with. Banning virts instead of modifying them in a way that would work? I believe that was Jeremy getting rid of something he didn't like. Some of us didn't agree with that but we don't own the joint. Ownership has its privileges. I owned an IT consultancy that made me a decent living for 28 years and sometimes made decisions based simply on what I wanted. Didn't have to be fair, didn't have to be politically correct or even be a good business decision. The owners of Groundspeak can do the same, yet I've only rarely seen them do it.

 

Geocaching has become too expensive? Groundspeak has built the most usable feature-rich highly-functional and most popular geocache listing site in the world and GIVES IT AWAY for free. Anyone anywhere can sign up for a free account and have everything they need to go geocaching. You don't need to buy a Premium Membership. You don't have to buy trackables or t-shirts. Just take their cache-listing product and use it for free forever. How cool is that?

 

At the risk of sounding like a cheerleader that's my take on Groundspeak and their effect on geocaching, what's yours?

[+Ecylram]

Pretty much agree, but you've opened many, many Can O' Worm's here. The discussion could get 'interesting'.

[mtbikernate]

I liken Groundspeak to companies like Hasbro and Milton Bradley. They're selling a game, too.

 

Technically, you don't HAVE to spend any money with Groundspeak to play this game.

 

Although, I think there's be fewer lame caches (of all types) if some marginal fee was charged per cache listing.

 

Yeah, they make decisions that take the game in directions I'd not care to go sometimes, but the beauty of this game is that it's LIVE. It's going on as we speak. In situations like that, some decisions are good. Some are not. We deal with what there is.

[+sbell111]

Why does Toz' post say TheAlabamaRambler?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I liken Groundspeak to companies like Hasbro and Milton Bradley. They're selling a game, too.

Call Hasbro, owners of the Milton Bradley Company, and ask them to send you a game - any product in this list will do, and ask them to send it to you for free.

 

Or tell them that you have a fun and interesting game and would they please list it on their public website for you, for free.

 

Or ask them to promise that the game you like will cost the same next year as it did this year, as Groundspeak has done.

 

Let me know how that works out for ya!

 

Hasbro's business model is to buy or pay to develop games, invest in manufacturing these games, invest even more in advertising and distribution, and hope that the game sells well enough and at a price point where they can recoup their investment plus make a thin margin. They live and die by intense competition in a market which they have almost no control over. One bad Christmas-season economy and they are on the cusp of disaster. Every decision and action made by Hasbro has to be soundly based on the potential for profit. Altruism and fun have no place in such a business.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I can't see any parallel. Help me out here if I'm missing something.

[+John in Valley Forge]

I liken Groundspeak to companies like Hasbro and Milton Bradley. They're selling a game, too.

Call Hasbro, owners of the Milton Bradley Company, and ask them to send you a game - any product in this list will do, and ask them to send it to you for free.

 

I'm not trying to be argumentative but I can't see any parallel. Help me out here if I'm missing something.

 

They have plenty of computer version of their popular board games and distribute limited editions of them for free. If you want the full version, with all the bells and whistles then you have to buy it. There's the parallel.