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InkyCat

"Don't take a TB without leaving one" - WHY?

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double post

Edited by DaveA

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I had a whole post typed up here, but got distracted by my real job and it didn't go through. I'll try to remember it all....

 

Dave,

Please read the forum guidelines. Whether a person has one post or 1000, one find or 10,000, they still deserve the same amount of respect that you would wish for yourself. Please read those guidelines, and do not assume that higher numbers equals more knowledge.

If you have something personal to discuss with another person, take it to private discussion.

 

 

Unsure why you are addressing this to me. I didn't pull the 'my numbers are greater than yours therefore I am right' routine. It was pulled on me ;)

 

Back to the topic, I am not in favor of restrictive rules either. My issue is that geocaching.com is allowing a public bookmark which is derogatory in nature (TB prisons) to be placed on other people's cache pages without their consent. This seems to fly against everything I had thought Groundspeak wanted on the main site. I see no difference between derogatory public bookmarks appearing on cache owner pages and derogatory logs on the cache page. The only difference is the cache owner would be able to remove the offending logs at their discretion, but they cannot do so with public bookmarks. Just how much latitude do people have with the derogatory bookmarks? How far will it be allowed to go?

 

My other issue is that I am not sure a TB hotel with a trade policy actually results in TBs sitting for a longer period of time than they do in other caches. I am not sure this isn't the case either, but I think before people go all jihad on other members (most of whom I am sure had the best of intentions with their TB hotels) there ought to be some facts instead of speculation. Going through "some" caches and comparing them to "some" other caches isn't meaningful. The stats would have to be gathered from the database which no regular or premium member can do. I am not suggesting it is necessary to do this, but I would think people would be a little nicer to each other when they don't have facts supporting their jihad.

 

So in other words you can do whatever you want with someone's travel bug and unless they prove to you that it statistically agrees with their position you're not interested in their jihad.

 

edit" added a - 's

Edited by BlueDeuce

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Still waiting for you to give us stats to support your belief, being that you are the dissenting opinion.

 

Edit-Forget it, it ain't gonna happen so let's be done with it already.

Edited by Hula Bum

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Also, you do realize that Eartha's stats were of all tb hotels? Oh yes, I forgot, it doesn't support your take on the matter.

 

If you are not for restrictive rules (which you just said) then let you go, the rest is just GEOBABBLE.

 

And I think "jihad" is closest enough to Godwin's Law for me!

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Still waiting for you to give us stats to support your belief, being that you are the dissenting opinion.

 

Edit-Forget it, it ain't gonna happen so let's be done with it already.

 

LOL, I can't give you meaningful stats, nor can you give me meaningful stats. Meaningful stats would have to come from the Groundspeak database so an average could be seen. Anything less is not particularly meaningful. Certainly you can see that?

 

Why do you say I am the only dissenting opinion? Read the threads, I am not the only one. I think you mistake me as being in favor of restrictive rules. I have plainly said I am not. I am against derogatory bookmarks showing up on people's cache pages without their having the ability to remove them just like they can remove offending logs. I think this will cause increasing problems as time goes on and people create more and more derogatory bookmarks.

 

I also said I question whether or not a TB, ON AVERAGE, sits in a TB hotel with rules than in any other cache.

 

That is all.

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Also, you do realize that Eartha's stats were of all tb hotels? Oh yes, I forgot, it doesn't support your take on the matter.

 

I keep telling you to get some facts before waging your jihad and yet you keep not getting facts. You are incorrect that Eartha's stats include all TB hotels. Eartha searched on a search phrase and said roughly 1/3 were disabled or archived with TBs listed as being in them. That search phrase is unlikely to have caught all TB hotels. It doesn't matter though.

 

Let's reason about this. Eartha DID NOT isolate TB hotels with a take one leave one policy. It was all TB hotels without distinction that matched a search phrase. In other words the stats Eartha presented, while interesting, were not in any way relevant to the discussion. Now, if Earth's stats said that 5% of TB hotels get archived with TBs in them and 30% of hotels with trade rules get archived with TBs in them, that would mean something.

 

I have said this several times already but, for the stats to be meaningful, they have to be compared against something. They can't be cherry picked stats and they can't be stats compared to nothing. They have to be stats for TB hotels with rules to either all other TB hotels or all just all TBs and how long they have spent in TB hotels with rules compared to other caches. I really don't think I am saying anything at all controversial here. I don't understand why I have to keep repeating it each time you cite yet another meaningless statistic.

 

If you are not for restrictive rules (which you just said) then let you go, the rest is just GEOBABBLE.

 

While I am not for restrictive rules in general, if that rule isn't resulting in any harm I see no reason to challenge it. Cache owners have long set up restrictive rules and the general consensus has always been they can make whatever rules they wish. You haven't shown the rule causes any harm, you simply wish to believe it does. If the rule isn't harming TBs, then there is no reason to deviate from the norm. If the rule is harming TBs then there is reason to oppose it. Get some facts first so you actually know instead of assuming.

 

Even if I agreed with you 100% on TB hotels with rules, I would absolutely not agree with the completely trailer trash idea of making derogatory bookmarks to show up on other people's cache pages. Since the powers that be haven't said a word on this topic we can't know what, if any, thoughts they have on this but never before have I seen anything appear on a cache page from another member that the cache owner couldn't remove if they saw fit. I can't see any reason for bookmarks to be an exception since some low class members are now exploiting bookmarks as weapon to try and force others to do things their way.

 

And I think "jihad" is closest enough to Godwin's Law for me!

 

I define jihad as a battle that close minded bigots wage. Seems to fit this case. You don't have stats to show any harm is done. There may or may not be, but you don't know. You simply take it on faith and 'personal experience' and that is enough for you. You also support the denigration of other people's caches right on their cache page simply because the derogatory bookmark agrees with your view. Seems jihad enough for me. If I made a bookmark of all your caches that was derogatory I don't think you would care for it. If one person can make a derogatory bookmark, why not everyone start doing it?

Edited by DaveA

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I think you are crossing the line of being respectful to your fellow posters and you are only using these words to be insulting and inflame the situation. And I think you enjoy doing it.

 

;)

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I think you are crossing the line of being respectful to your fellow posters and you are only using these words to be insulting and inflame the situation. And I think you enjoy doing it.

 

;)

Of course he does! Since according to his profile, in 5 yrs of caching he's never moved a TB, why else would he be posting here?

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I think you are crossing the line of being respectful to your fellow posters and you are only using these words to be insulting and inflame the situation. And I think you enjoy doing it.

 

B)

 

So placing public bookmarks of a derogatory nature on cache owner's pages isn't insulting and inflaming? That is just fine? If that is what you believe let me know and I will be sure to add your 3 caches to my derogatory bookmark list. Everyone who thinks derogatory bookmarks showing up on cache owner's pages without thier consent is cool should feel free to identify themselves here so I can get ya added.

 

I mean why not? TPTB don't seem to mind TB hotel owner's getting derogatory bookmarks on their pages so clearly derogatory bookmarks are OK.

 

Of course i am being facetious, I don't actually have any intention of adding your caches to any derogatory bookmark list. I simply wouldn't do it as it is unacceptable to me.

 

I am curious though if you consider it acceptable?

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I think you are crossing the line of being respectful to your fellow posters and you are only using these words to be insulting and inflame the situation. And I think you enjoy doing it.

 

B)

Of course he does! Since according to his profile, in 5 yrs of caching he's never moved a TB, why else would he be posting here?

 

Yes, yes, of course. It couldn't possibly have anything to do with my disliking derogatory public bookmarks showing up on cache pages without cache owner consent? It also couldn't possibly have anything to do with there being no stats showing TBs, on average, spend more time in a TB hotel with trade policies than in any other cache.

 

Nope, it must be that I am a sub human enemy. Riiiight.

 

Let me know if you are OK with my creating a derogatory bookmark that will show up on your cache pages.

Edited by DaveA

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Please, this thread is not about bookmarks, it's about taking and leaving travel bugs, let's stay on topic.

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Please, this thread is not about bookmarks, it's about taking and leaving travel bugs, let's stay on topic.

 

I don't know what this thread is to you, but I know what it is to me. I have stated what it is about to me several times and you have yet to directly address it, you just argue.

 

Do *you* hulabum, support derogatory bookmarks showing up on cache owner's pages? Yes or no. If you answer yes, do you mind my creating a derogatory bookmark to show up on your cache pages?

 

Do *you*, hulabum, support a jihad against cache owners simply because a few people believe their caches are causing some sort of bad thing with no actual evidence (other than subjective) to support their jihad?

 

Simple questions. Please answer.

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This thread is about why people set up their TB hotels with restrictions on taking one for one. You have taken it off topic one too many times. Since this has been discussed ad nauseum, and you keep taking it off topic, I am closing this thread. The poor horse is dead.

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