Can Someone Help Date This Disk?

[+pgrig]

Hi all--

 

Last year I did a recovery on MY6399.

 

Last week, I was contacted by a fellow who said that while metal detecting he had found the original 1848 disk for this station, which was reset in 1937. I believe (see report) that last year I recovered the stem of the 1937 reset station, along with all three of its RMs.

 

I thought he had found the disk in the ground (getting me really excited), but then received an email with his photo of the disk, clearly found loose. (I don't believe USGS has used lace as a setting material in quite some time .)

 

I have added his photo (edited some by me) to the gallery on the MY6399 page (see "Disk Found Loose") and would appreciate knowing if this could have been the disk set in 1848. "1848" was all I could read clearly on its badly hammered surface, but it seemed to me that the disk was too new to date to that point.

 

Thanks a lot,

-Paul

[kayakbird]

Hi all--

 

I have added his photo (edited some by me) to the gallery on the MY6399 page (see "Disk Found Loose") and would appreciate knowing if this could have been the disk set in 1848. "1848" was all I could read clearly on its badly hammered surface, but it seemed to me that the disk was too new to date to that point.

 

Thanks a lot,

-Paul

 

Paul & all,

 

Clearly a late 20th Century style of NGS disk. I tried to pull up a second DS by checking include "DESTROYED MARKS" but only got this one.

 

I found their "REPLACEMENT" procedure interesting. How much of the stem, or maybe its indentation in the cementing material, would

be required to make this method acceptable? I've got a couple of likely candidates.

 

MY6399'DESCRIBED IN 1954. A NEW DISK WAS SET HOLDING THE CENTER OF THE STEM

MY6399'AS PLUMB. THE STEM FOR REFERENCE MARK 1 WAS ALSO RECOVERED AND A NEW

MY6399'DISK WAS SET HOLDING THE CENTER OF THE STEM AS PLUMB. REFERENCE MARKS

MY6399'2 AND 3 WERE RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. THE DISTANCE TO REFERENCE

 

Their terminology below must mean "GREATER & LESSER".

 

MY6399'MARK 1 CHECKED. A DIFFERENCE OF 0.36 FEET HIGHER TO REFERENCE MARK 2

MY6399'AND 0.19 FEET LOWER TO REFERENCE MARK 3 WAS NOTED IN THE DISTANCE TO

MY6399'THESE REFERENCE MARKS AND THE CHANGE MAY BE BECAUSE OF THE DIFFERENCE

MY6399'IN THE ELEVATION OF THOSE MARKS. THE DIRECTION BETWEEN REFERENCE MARKS

MY6399'2 AND 3 CHECKED BUT THE DIRECTION BETWEEN REFERENCE MARKS 1 AND 3

MY6399'FAILED TO CHECK BY A HIGHER VALUE OF 3 MINUTES AND 48 SECONDS. A NEW

MY6399'DESCRIPTION FOLLOWS.

 

kayakbird

[mloser]

There was no such thing as a disk in 1848. It would have been a drill hole or bolt at that time. I recall discussions here about when the first disks were set and I think we came up with "about 1900". I recently found an 1899 disk.

As for the stamping 1848 on the disk, the datasheet indicates that the stamping on the 1981 disk was BALD HILL 1848 1981, so the loose disk is most likely from 1981.

[NGS Surveyor]

Hi, I haven't thoroughly investigated this station, but I don't believe any U.S. agency was setting disks as early as 1848. The USC&GS started setting survey disks in ~1900, the USGS about 10 years earlier, and the Mississippi/Missouri? River Comm. and Verplanck Colvin (in MA) several years earlier than that.

 

GeorgeL

NGS

[southpawaz]

Looks to me like it's the early 20th century flat disk. Here's one for comparison's sake:

 

[kayakbird]

Looks to me like it's the early 20th century flat disk. Here's one for comparison's sake:

 

[/quote

 

I better back paddle - Bobby has a better eye than I. Would a flat disk have still been in use in 1937, or was there an earlier RESET with no history carried down? MEL

[Papa-Bear-NYC]

 

I better back paddle - Bobby has a better eye than I. Would a flat disk have still been in use in 1937, or was there an earlier RESET with no history carried down? MEL

Those flat disks were out of use by about 1919.

 

The station "Bald Hill" is also described in Special Publication No. 76 "Triangulation in Massachusstts"

 

Bald Hill (Essex County, Town Boundary Survey, 1916). On the summit of a

hill of the same name. 2 1/4 miles to the northeastward of Beverlv and 1 mile northward

from Beverly Rock. ’The station is 21 meters (89 feet) north of a wall running northeastward

over the hill and is marked according to note 2, with the inscription "Bald

Hill 1848.” A reference mark, note 12a, is 5.05 meters (16.57 feet) southwest of tho

station. The position of this station can probably be obtained from the Massachusetts

Commission on Waterways and Public Lands.

 

Note 2.- A standard disk station mark wedged in a drill hole in outcropping bedrock

 

Note l2.- A standard disk referenco mark with the arrow pointing toward the station,

(a) wedged in a drill holo in outcroping bedrock

 

This tells me that the history is something like the following:

 

1) A station called Bald Hill was set in 1848, probably a drill hole set by the CGS

2) In 1916, as part of a town boundary survey, the "standard disk" was placed in the original drill hole, with the date 1848 indicating the date for the original station plus an RM disk set 5.05 m southwest of the station. These would both be UC&GS flat type disks.

3) In 1937 MGS took their turn and set RM2 and RM3

4) In 1954 a new station disk was set as quoted in the 1981 log.

5) In 1981, another new disk and new RMs were set

 

The old 1916 disk was apparently left around to be found by the metal detector guy.

 

The original RM1 was probably also one of the 1909-1919 flat disks.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Papa-Bear-NYC

[+pgrig]

Thank you all!

 

So I will report back to the gentleman that he has either

a. The 1916 disk,

b. The 1954 reset, or

c. The 1981 reset,

 

but not the 1848 mark, which was likely just a DH.

 

Isn't it odd that the disk would just be lying around out there! You'd think a survey party would have taken it along, and a vandal would have claimed the wages of his sins.

-Paul

[NGS Surveyor]

Hi, A correction to what I stated yesterday, Verplanck Colvin worked in the Adirondack Mts in NY, and not in MA.

 

Regarding flat disks, dates from my paper on USC&GS disks:

 

Triangulation flat disk ~1909 to at least 1925. Note, that these can be spotted not only for their flatness but also the larger than normal triangle.

 

Reference Mark flat disks, ~1913 to as late as 1934. Note, that these RM disks can be spotted not only for their flatness but also the very long arrow which stretches from stamping to stamping.

 

GeorgeL

NGS