The interesting case of QK0775

[andylphoto]

This one is an interesting find, for a couple of reasons. I was picking out a couple of adjusted marks for "quick finds" along the way on a trip to Lower Michigan. I enjoy older marks, and there are quite a few older ones in this area set by the USLS. I had picked this one as a possibility, but then later crossed it off my list because of its setting--2 1/2 feet deep in a hole in limestone. I didn't want to be taking the time on this trip to dig through a pile of debris that was likely to have accumulated.

 

Well, we ended up making a stop at the adjacent rest area. I found I had actually loaded the waypoint into the GPS, but had NOT printed the datasheet. Oh well...for a walk of a few hundred feet, I figured I'd see what I could find. What I found was quite interesting!

 

I first recovered RM3, as described, well marked by a carsonite witness post. I didn't find RM2--I would suspect that it's there, but without the datasheet or a glaring witness post, it was a shot in the dark, and I didn't have much time to spend.

 

I then began looking in the area indicated by the GPS for the station mark. There was also a carsonite witness post in this area. I found what is apparently the station mark, though it is NOT what is described in the data sheet. The station was apparently reset by an NGS party in 1985. I know from other discussions here and reports in datasheets that the NGS was in Upper Michigan in 1985, so this would fit with that.

 

Aside from the fact that the reset did not make it into the datasheet, also interesting is the fact that they apparently ran out of triangulation station disks! The station mark is a standard bench mark disk, field stamped as a horizontal control disk. The stamping says it's a reset of the station, and is in the correct area as indicated by GPS, so I logged it as a find on GC. Without more information, or at least a check on distances from both RMs, I would not log it with the NGS in any form. I hope to be able to uncover some additional information on this station, as well as make another visit to find RM2 and search for the Azimuth mark on a later visit--maybe one WITH the datasheet.

 

I would be very interested in any additional information on this station!

 

QK0775 - Geocaching

QK0775 Datasheet

[Z15]

Although I have no information, it would not surprise me one bit if M*DOT did not do this. They did a lot of control work from St Ignace over to Manistique from about 1975 thru the 90's for US-2. We had a PS crew chief in that area who was very prolific in working with the NGS control. What he might have done was raise it to the surface (if indeed you found it on the surface) and do that to the disk as we always had supply of BM disks. Back in that era we had to do everything on paper and forward it to the state advisor for him to forward it on. Often the state advisor job was budget constrained and I recall long periods of time when there was no one in the job during the transition from Mark Maintenance to DOT-NGS sharing the cost of the position. I do recall someone remarking once about a lot of NGS control info was accidentally discarded during building renovations in Lansing. The survey office was there on Friday but on Monday they had moved it to another floor and things disappeared. Typical bureaucracy.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Z15

[andylphoto]

Yes--that was one detail I inadvertently omitted. The disk was set in concrete on the surface. Thanks Mike!

Edited August 3, 2009 by andylphoto

[+shorbird]

Yes, this is a very interesting case. As you mentioned, the disk you found is obviously a reset which did not make it into the database. I have noticed that the usual NGS practice is to assign a new PID to any reset mark. For that reason, and because the disk was not the spike described in the datasheet, I would have logged QK0775 as not found. I notice that the Power Squadron logged the station as found in 1995, which means that they found the reset disk. I wonder what Deb would have to say about this?

[Bill93]

I believe the practice is to assign a new PID for a reset (vertical) bench mark because the data is different. For horizontal control, haven't we seen resets on the same PID data sheet?

[AZcachemeister]

...wondering if the original mark may lie encased in concrete just below this 'reset' mark. Is it possible??

[andylphoto]

Hmmm...I thought I posted this reply yesterday, but apparently it got lost somewhere.

 

Bill, it was my understanding that this was the case. I was originally going to post a note, but decided to change it to a find. As you pointed out, for a horizontal control station, the position of the reset is identical to the original--big difference from a vertical control mark.

 

The disk I found has the station name, and is where it should be, at least within the accuracy of my GPS. As I mentioned, I did not have the datasheet with me at the time, but it is also about where it should be in relation to the one reference mark that I did find. It would certainly appear, as Mike suggested, that the station was brought to the surface by a surveyor--whether with M-Dot or the NGS. I would submit that at first look, there is more evidence for the accuracy of what I found than there would be for logging a vertical control mark as "poor" when the disk is missing but the stem remains. If the consensus is that this should be a note, I will be happy to change it.

 

That said, under the circumstances, I wouldn't log anything with the NGS. If and when I am able to return to this station WITH the datasheet and some time, I will attempt to take measurements from both reference marks 2 and 3 (RM1 is presumably also under concrete) and send an email to Deb with my observations. Quite obviously it is not what is described in the datasheet. Presumably the location is accurate, but without the documentation on the reset, I would leave it to her how it should be logged, if at all.

 

EDIT: AZcachemeister, I would highly suspect that you are correct...but given what's there now, it's not likely ever to be seen again, which in my mind is unfortunate.

Edited August 5, 2009 by andylphoto

[Z15]

The man who was in charge of the DOT (left for greener pastures) crew lives in St Ignace and still is working as a PS in that area. If you want his name, PM me.

Edited August 6, 2009 by Z15