DeLorme Cache Register versus --- ?

[+user13371]

The latest Goecaching app (2.1) for the iPhone can download pocket queries directly from GC.com. This is the second app I've seen using the new "secret backdoor API" (not!) to download PQ's directly to the GPS and the iPhone setup is even cooler than DeLorme's -- you have to see this to appreciate it.

 

Anybody know if/when Garmin, Magellan, and Lowrance will pick up on this?

Edited June 16, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+Arrow42]

I doubt if any dedicated GPS will every support I-Phone apps. Apple has that fairly well locked down.

[+RRLover]

I doubt if any dedicated GPS will every support I-Phone apps. Apple has that fairly well locked down.

Arrow :

I agree but that's the answer to a different question.

 

Lee :

I suspect Lowrance will probably work on something, but "the proof will be in the puddin'"

Garmin has their plate stacked pretty high as it is. The new Dakota might have some surprise potential.

Magellan, who knows, Mitac doesn't seem too be in much of a hurry to do too much right now.

 

Norm

Edited June 16, 2009 by RRLover

[+user13371]

I doubt if any dedicated GPS will every support I-Phone apps...

You misunderstood me.

 

I wasn't talking about anyone else supporting iPhone apps. Geocaching.com now has a way for applications to download pocket queries drectly to your GPS -- instead of you downloading the PQ, unzipping it, and then instaling it to the GPS as a separate step. It sounds like a tiny thing but it's a great simplification and convenience.

 

DeLorme does this with their Cache Regoster program, and new the iPhone app does it.

Edited June 16, 2009 by lee_rimar

[NordicMan]

The new Lowrance Endura series (not out yet) is hinting at some sort of fancy Geocaching interface, but not a lot is known about it yet

 

http://enduracaching.info/1_7_Paperless-Geocaching.html

[+Entropy512]

I like how you mock my words regarding the secret backdoor API and try to put the blame on Garmin for not having a given feature that requires access to undocumented Groundspeak features, when the only evidence of the existence of the API is features in some apps not possible without either violating Groundspeak's TOU or some sort of undocumented API.

 

Until you can show me one of the following:

1) Public API documentation, or

2) At the very least, a official page describing Groundspeak's developer program, stating what features are available to registered developers and what specific criteria must be met to become a registered developer

 

It's a secret undocumented API whose existence itself is undocumented.

 

If there were an available API, it would be possible for someone to write "one app to rule them all" that provided this feature for any hardware with the capabilities and a documented interface for using those capabilities. (And the Garmin Oregon has such capabilities and they ARE documented).

 

As examples - I'm thinking one of the best places to see this feature would be in GSAK (which supports a wide variety of GPS devices), or even better an open source application like gpsbabel.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Entropy512

[+user13371]

Entropy512, you either need to learn to take a joke or take a pill <- hint, that's a joke.

 

This thread is a disucssion of apps that use an API that Groundspeak developed and supports, and others that might do so in the future. Nothing was implied about a deficiency in the product lines of companies that aren't using it yet; it's relatively new.

 

Whinging about the API being "secret and undocumented" makes it sound evil and sinister - and a bit daft, as there are published apps using it. If you simply said it's

"a private API available only for Groundspeak's trusted partners" most people would say "Sure, a lot of proprietary APIs are like that" and "So what?"

 

If you would like to use it, perhaps you should email GC.com and ask how to become a trusted partner - instead of trying to pick a fight with users here.

Edited June 16, 2009 by lee_rimar

[+deercreekth]

I wouldn't call it a secret undocumented API. I'd say it's more of a non-public API documented well enough that a trusted partner(DeLorme) was able to utilize it with Cache Register. From the information given out by DeLorme before the release of Cache Register, it sounded like they were working closely with Groundspeak to make this happen.

[+Entropy512]

Which is why I can accept if there were a publically documented method for becoming a registered developer (which there is not).

 

It is understandable that in some cases an API is not universally available to the public, but as long as the criteria for gaining access to that API are clearly listed, it's OK. (albeit not even close to ideal compared to a publically available API - very often open source developers get left out of developer programs because the program's terms of service and the philosophy of open source are not compatible.)

 

With access to the API even I could implement a feature like Cache Register's for Garmin Oregon/Colorado devices in a few hours with some Perl. Everything required but the Groundspeak API is publically documented and relatively simple.

[jholly]

I like how you mock my words regarding the secret backdoor API and try to put the blame on Garmin for not having a given feature that requires access to undocumented Groundspeak features, when the only evidence of the existence of the API is features in some apps not possible without either violating Groundspeak's TOU or some sort of undocumented API.

 

Until you can show me one of the following:

1) Public API documentation, or

2) At the very least, a official page describing Groundspeak's developer program, stating what features are available to registered developers and what specific criteria must be met to become a registered developer

 

It's a secret undocumented API whose existence itself is undocumented.

 

If there were an available API, it would be possible for someone to write "one app to rule them all" that provided this feature for any hardware with the capabilities and a documented interface for using those capabilities. (And the Garmin Oregon has such capabilities and they ARE documented).

 

As examples - I'm thinking one of the best places to see this feature would be in GSAK (which supports a wide variety of GPS devices), or even better an open source application like gpsbabel.

 

missed the post by Jeremy I guess. It is quite well documented. There was a time the web page was publicly viewable but that is now gone. There is an API and your not going to use it.

[+StarBrand]

Which is why I can accept if there were a publically documented method for becoming a registered developer (which there is not).

 

It is understandable that in some cases an API is not universally available to the public, but as long as the criteria for gaining access to that API are clearly listed, it's OK. (albeit not even close to ideal compared to a publically available API - very often open source developers get left out of developer programs because the program's terms of service and the philosophy of open source are not compatible.)

 

With access to the API even I could implement a feature like Cache Register's for Garmin Oregon/Colorado devices in a few hours with some Perl. Everything required but the Groundspeak API is publically documented and relatively simple.

The folks at Groundspeak are not sinister - they actually quite friendly. Have you actually asked them what you need to do to become a trusted partner??

[+Entropy512]

Which is why I can accept if there were a publically documented method for becoming a registered developer (which there is not).

 

It is understandable that in some cases an API is not universally available to the public, but as long as the criteria for gaining access to that API are clearly listed, it's OK. (albeit not even close to ideal compared to a publically available API - very often open source developers get left out of developer programs because the program's terms of service and the philosophy of open source are not compatible.)

 

With access to the API even I could implement a feature like Cache Register's for Garmin Oregon/Colorado devices in a few hours with some Perl. Everything required but the Groundspeak API is publically documented and relatively simple.

The folks at Groundspeak are not sinister - they actually quite friendly. Have you actually asked them what you need to do to become a trusted partner??

If you have to ask them, it is too undocumented and arbitrary. If you have to dig up a two-line forum post to even get confirmation of its existence, it is undocumented and arbitrary.

 

As an example, say you're a talented Windows Mobile shareware/freeware developer with a couple of small but quite nice Windows Mobile apps under your belt, but you're not a megacorporation with a brand name and lots of revenue? You see the great features of the iPhone app and want to bring it to Windows Mobile. How, exactly, do you get API access? What's the process? How do you establish "trust"? What is the definition of "trusted partner"? None of this is documented.

 

The answer is - Small fry like aforementioned WM developer get locked out of the game and references to their software get deleted on the forums. (I've seen references to a particular WM app on multiple threads here, but a search for that app's name as of today only gives results from a recent thread which was started on June 8 and first referenced the app in question on June 14.) It actually seems (from briefly playing with it) to be a quality app with a number of features not present in any other Windows Mobile app, but given Groundspeak's attitude towards said app I would not be surprised if the developer just gives up.

Edited June 16, 2009 by Entropy512

[+user13371]

Entropy512, would you mind taking your concern to another thread?

 

I'm sure it would be very productive for you to advise Groundspeak on what business and development practices you approve of. But I really did start this thread to discuss the features and software that exists, and that's quite a bit different.