GeoBobC Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 It's happened more than once, so I don't think it's my imagination. I have one proximity POI that seems to work in one direction only. The POI is for a speed change on a major freeway. The waypoint name is "65-70 I90 E". Driving east I do not receive a speed alert. Driving west I do. When I look at the waypoint on my 60Cx, I see "Alarm Range: 2113 ft; Alarm Speed Unknown". I used POI Loader to load waypoints to my GPS. I have other speed alert waypoints that work fine. This waypoint works westbound, but not eastbound. I know that I'm easily within 2113 feet of it: probably more like 200 feet. Is there a logical explanation? Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) POI Loader proximity alerts are different from Waypoint proximity alerts. Alerts set with POI Loader function as an "along the road" alert. In order for the alert to sound, you must traveling on the road on which the POI is located, traveling in the direction of the POI, and the POI must be located sufficiently close to the road (typically 50 feet or less). If this particular location is on the other side of a divided roadway, chances are that it is beyond the 50 foot limit from the road you are on. You might want to move the location to the middle of the roadway. Also, be aware the numerals in a Custom POI filename will be interpreted by POI Loader as speed information. If you run POI Loader in Manual Mode, you can overwrite the speed information that POI Loader generates from numbers in the file name. Edited July 24, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 As I understand it, if you make it a "Tourguide" POI by placing that word in the title, you get "normal" radius based proximity back... Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 Motorcycle Mama, I think you theory nailed it. This is a POI proximity, and it is located between a divided east/west highway. My guess is that it may be within 50 feet of the westbound lane, but more than 50 feet from the eastbound lane. Thus it activates in one direction only if that information is correct. Where can I read about the 50 foot limitation? I read the Garmin POI Loader help file this morning and didn't see that. Thanks. Quote Link to comment
+DENelson83 Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) What I'd actually love to see is a POI proximity alarm feature that only functions in one direction on a two-lane road, so you only get the alarm when you're entering a zone with a lower speed limit rather than exiting it. Edited July 24, 2008 by DENelson83 Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) Phil Hornby has done a ton of research on this. Check out his great guide to alerts. Hornbyp's guide to setting alerts with POI Loader http://www.poi-factory.com/node/6764 Also, check out this detailed post. http://www.poi-factory.com/node/7043 Also, you can check out his site and he can give you more details. http://geepeeex.googlepages.com/ And unfortunately, at this time, Garmin has not made directionality in the Custom POIs available to the user. Phil believes that the capability exists because it seems to be part of Garmin's Speed Camera subscription database. Edited July 24, 2008 by Motorcycle_Mama Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 24, 2008 Author Share Posted July 24, 2008 Hmmm. By your last comment are you suggesting that directionality does not work, or that Garmin does not acknowledge that it works? In either case, it sounds like I need to create two POI alerts for a divided highway. I don't believe there is any way to test it out in advance (ie in Mapsource, for example) other than drive it. Is that correct? Quote Link to comment
+coggins Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 I don't believe there is any way to test it out in advance (ie in Mapsource, for example) other than drive it. Is that correct? Not realy, Demo Mode on your GPS will pop the POI proximity alerts. Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 Yeah, exactly! Just simulate a route past a location you want to test. As to directionality, again, Phil believes that the directionality capability exists. In the UK, they have access to a Garmin subscription to speed cameras in the UK. (They come, I believe, in the form of an already compiled .GPI file.) Phil has indicated that these alerts are directional. So, somehow they have encoded it into the .GPI file. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 No go. I created two proximity POIs: one exactly on the eastbound lane of I90, and one exactly on the westbound lane of I90. As before the (westbound) POI pops a proximity alarm. As before, the (eastbound) POI does not. I literally drove right over it in Demo mode. Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 How are you setting the alerts? Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'm saving waypoints to a .gpx file from Mapsource. I'm then using POI Loader to load them to my GPS. The waypoint name starts with "65". Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Custom POIs won't incorporate proximities set in MapSource. You need to run POI Loader in Manual Mode and set the alerts that way. If the filename (not the Waypoint name) contains numbers (ie numerals), that will be interpreted as SPEED information. For example, if your file was named 65_Alerts.GPX. That would produce a 65 mph SPEED alert. The distance would be set proportional to the speed. If you want a proximity alert, don't put numbers in the file name, and then when you run POI Loader in Manual Mode, set the proximity to whatever distance you want. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 So, regardless.... For cache alerts, you want "TourGuide" in the name to give a radius based alert.... Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 From the POI Loader help file: "Speed information can be included in the file name or in the names of individual POIs within the file. POI Loader determines speed information based on the following information, listed from highest to lowest priority: 1. Speed information included in the name of the individual Custom POI. For example, a POI named "SpeedZone@30" will have an alert speed of 30 regardless of the speed information specified in Manual mode or in the file name. 2. Speed information entered in Manual mode. 3. Speed information included in the file name. POI Loader interprets any numbers in the file name as speed information." I am using method 1: incorporating speeds in the POI name. UPDATE: talk about finicky. I created two POIs: one for each lane of direction. I could get one to work but not the other, regardless of what I did. I reverted back to one POI, and moved it around. It finally worked in both directions. I assume that there are two factors at work: distance from the road (the POI is now approximately 95 feet from each lane), and having more than one alert POI in the same proximity may nullify the others from working. I wish I knew why it's working now, but that's what I do and don't know. Thanks for all the help, especially Motorcycle Mama and Red90 (again and again). Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 GeoBobC, when it says that you can incorporate the speed information into the POI name what it means is this. long, lat, POIname@30, comment That has to be the format. Simply including a number in the waypoint name won't work. MapSource doesn't produce the proper formatting for Custom POI alerts in this manner. Also, remember this is a SPEED alert not a proximity alert. Red90, do TourGuides work on the handhelds? Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Red90, do TourGuides work on the handhelds? I have not tested it out on the Colorado since they just recently fixed the custom POIs. However, custom POIs seems to work exactly the same on a Colorado as they do on a Nuvi, so I woould expect that it would work the same. I don't think the dinosaur handhelds like the 60csx do anything fancy like that. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 "Simply including a number in the waypoint name won't work". Well, it does for me on my 60Cx. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 (edited) "Simply including a number in the waypoint name won't work". Well, it does for me on my 60Cx. Are you sure you are talking about the "waypoint name" and NOT the "file name"? Are you sure you are running the POI Loader in automatic? Edited July 25, 2008 by Red90 Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 The waypoint name in Mapsource is "65-70 I90". The .gpx filename is "Waypoints.gpx". I run POI Loader and use Express mode. All my waypoints with numbers in the waypoint name, such as "65", work correctly with the one exception of a waypoint between a divided highway, which was the topic of this post. Thanks. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 The waypoint name in Mapsource is "65-70 I90". The .gpx filename is "Waypoints.gpx". I run POI Loader and use Express mode. All my waypoints with numbers in the waypoint name, such as "65", work correctly with the one exception of a waypoint between a divided highway, which was the topic of this post. Thanks. When you open the GPX file in Mapsource, is there any data in the proximity box? Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Yes, these alert waypoints have proximity data. I assume that it is overridden by the POI Loader, however. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Yes, these alert waypoints have proximity data. I assume that it is overridden by the POI Loader, however. No. If in express mode, it will use the specified proximity data. What do you think it is there for? Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Proximity data is used for a waypoint, not a custom POI. I can say from experience that the proximity distances for the waypoint I have are not used when they are loaded as POIs, as some have no proximity data and still generate alerts. This is what the Help file indicates: "Proximity alert information can be calculated automatically based on speed information. It can also be included in .gpx data files or added in Manual mode. POI Loader determines proximity alert information based on the following criteria, listed from highest to lowest priority: 1. Proximity alert information listed for individual POIs in a .gpx file. This information overrides all other proximity alert information. Proximity alert information entered in Manual mode. Proximity alert distance calculated by POI Loader based on speed information in the file name or in individual POI names. This calculation uses the following formula: Prompt Distance = 36 seconds * Speed" Try it out and you should see the same results. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Proximity data is used for a waypoint, not a custom POI. POI Loader determines proximity alert information based on the following criteria, listed from highest to lowest priority: 1. Proximity alert information listed for individual POIs in a .gpx file. This information overrides all other proximity alert information. You just disagreed with yourself. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 If I load the waypoint as a waypoint to my GPS, the waypoint proximity data is used. If I save the waypoint to a .gpx file and load it as a custom POI via POI Loader, then POI Loader determines the proximity distance and ignores the waypoint proximity data. What part of that is contradictory? Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 If I load the waypoint as a waypoint to my GPS, the waypoint proximity data is used. If I save the waypoint to a .gpx file and load it as a custom POI via POI Loader, then POI Loader determines the proximity distance and ignores the waypoint proximity data. What part of that is contradictory? This says that POI Loader uses the proximity data in the GPX file. That is what is contradictory. POI Loader determines proximity alert information based on the following criteria, listed from highest to lowest priority: 1. Proximity alert information listed for individual POIs in a .gpx file. This information overrides all other proximity alert information. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 Red90, it wouldn't be the first time I got confused or screwed up. Anyway, if that's true then we go back to the first question, which is why doesn't the alert work in both directions? If I have a custom POI with a proximity distance of .4 miles, and I'm only a few hundred feet from the custom POI, then why isn't an alert sounded? Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Other than "TourGuide" proximity alerts, all other alerts are " on route" alerts. The unit looks and decided in the POI is "on your route" as to whether or not it will show an alert. As to how far off the route it works is up for debate. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'll settle for that. I am in part confused by the circle that is drawn around a proximity waypoint, and assumed that entering that circle anywhere would cause an alert to be generated. Apparently that is not so. Quote Link to comment
+Red90 Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 For a "waypoint", I believe it does. It is these fancy POIs that are different AND the difference is probably only the Nuvi style units like the Colorado. Keep in mind that the MapSource programmers have never talked to the POI programmers. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 25, 2008 Author Share Posted July 25, 2008 I'll do some testing and see what I can learn about the circles etc. There is obviously more that I don't know than what I do know. Thanks for your help. Maybe the POI programmers have a MapSource programmer proximity alert? Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 MapSource does not write the data properly for proximity alerts in the GPX file when it is loaded as a Custom POI. Just run POI Loader in Manual Mode and set the alerts manually. Or check out Phil Hornby's GeePeeEx Editor for complete GPX POI functionality and control. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 What does it mean that Mapsource does not write the data properly for proximity alerts? I'm using Mapsource to create a .gpx file that POI Loader uses to send custom POIs to my unit, and the proximity alerts work. Please explain. Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Hmmm ... perhaps the handhelds use the information differently from the auto units. The proximity information set in MapSource does not produce proximity alerts in Custom POIs loaded to auto units. Quote Link to comment
GeoBobC Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 I didn't think my 60Cx used the proximity data either; I thought it was computed by POI Loader. I was wrong. The proximity data from Mapsource is used by the custom POI. Quote Link to comment
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