Mapping GPS receivers

[Wintertime]

With the imminent release of Garmin's Colorado series, I think it's time for a new discussion of which mapping GPS receivers benchmark hunters find most helpful.

 

Klem's article about mapping GPS receivers in Caching Now had me drooling over the Delorme PN-20 and possibly the Bushnell ONIX200CR. Now the Colorado 400t is in the mix with its preloaded topo maps--except that the Garmin website doesn't say which topos are included, or what scale they are. For benchmarking, of course, one wants 1:24000. Those are the ones with the handy little "X"s on them! Given that the Colorados aren't out yet, I don't expect anyone here to have a hands-on report on them yet (unless you were at CES or they're showing Colorados at Macworld), but has anyone read any details about the topo maps?

 

Of course, you can also upload other maps to the unit. I see that you can also load maps from an SD card onto the Colorado 300, which does not come preloaded. (I'm ignoring the 400c and the 400i because those models are focused on boating and fishing.)

 

Oh, and the ability to load GPX files sounds intriguing. Garmin, of course, only mentions the GPX files from Geocaching.com, but I don't imagine there's any reason why NGS datasheets run through BMGPX or a similar program wouldn't also work. I wonder whether there's a maximum GPX file length per waypoint; some datasheets get quite wordy, if they've had multiple, detailed recovery reports over the years.

 

I plan to attend the Groundspeak/Garmin event at REI in Saratoga in early February. Although Groundspeak has set up these joint events to introduce folks to their new Wherigo game, I can't imagine that a roomful of geocachers will let them get away without talking about how the Colorado works for caching! Maybe I'll even get a chance to ask a benchmark-specific question or two. Anyone else planning to attend the Seattle or Saratoga events?

 

Patty

[+Team DeLorme]

Don't forget about the color aerial imagery that is available on the PN-20. Combine that with the USGS Quads and you've got some powerful data to help find your benchmarks.

 

You might also consider loading the high resolution color imagery from your local GIS department for free through our XMap software. I was using six inch imagery for our building and parking lot to conduct accuracy tests with manhole covers, drain grates and parking space lines in the software and on the PN-20. Having searched for a few benchmarks, the more map data the better...

 

Chip Noble

Team DeLorme

[foxtrot_xray]

I, personally, use the PN-20. And, I must say, I love it. The only real features I use of it are the Topo maps (the raster ones, not their vector ones..!) and marking waypoints and such. I mean, I don't even use ha;f of it's functionality like routes and tracks.

 

It has a few down points for me, but that's just because I use it in rather specific method - benchmarking.

 

As for GPX files, I can speak up for DeLorme as well - I've loaded a 250Mb GPX file into Topo 6 (originally came with the PN-20) - you can't load the GPX *directly* into the GPX unit, of course - and after enough time processing the 17k marks, they all loaded fine.

 

..Not that I would recommend loading 17k marks into ANY program, but..

[+Klemmer]

As you can probably tell from the article I wrote (which Patty linked above), I also have a PN-20. Nothing better for Benchmark Hunting than having the USGS Topos and DOQQ aerial imagery (or color if you spend the bucks). Helped a lot with some recoveries yesterday on my way from LA to San Diego, along PCH. If the Colorado offers the same functionality, then "good on them" (as an Aussie friend is fond of saying). Also realize that those maps & pics (on the GPSr) don't come free. Delorme has OK deals going, but free it ain't.

 

I may use a few more functions of the PN-20 than FX, but by no means all of them.

 

There are several threads with reviews of the PN-20, and some early ones of the Colorado on the GPS Units forum.

 

I don't think it will be feasible in the near future (years?) to load the full NGS datasheets to a handheld GPSr. That is just a lot of data, in many cases. At this point, you can get parts of geocache pages in the PN-20. Get a PDA and Cachemate for paperless. If you are into multifunction gadgets, start with a PDA and add a GPSr SD card receiver. Not rugged or waterproof, however.

 

Just my $0.02. Boring evening in a hotel in San Diego!

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Speaking of the PN-20, there is a review of it in this month's survey trade magazine POB. It can be read HERE. It is written from a surveyor's/GIS user's point of view, but benchmarkers may find it helpful too.

 

- Kewaneh

[Wintertime]

Kewaneh, thanks for the pointer to the review of the PN-20. I personally have ruled it out because there's no sign of Mac software from Delorme, and MacGPS Pro doesn't work with Delorme units.

 

Meanwhile, first reports are starting to come in on the Colorados, from folks who've either bought them, or have played with them at the Garmin booth at Macworld. This thread discusses the topo maps in the 400t, with screen shots. The topos are Garmin's own, but the poster says there are rumors that the Colorado can take raster maps and thus there's a possibility of being able to use rasterized versions of genuine USGS maps on them at some point.

 

Patty

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

There is a way to get your maps into Garmin.

 

I have posted many times about the GPS Trackmaker but have really never got any feedback on it.

I will try one more time on what I use.

GPS Trackmaker

 

From the Author.

"The present article shows the Author's personal experience with the MAPDEKODE program together with GPS TrackMaker® and MapSource® for creation of complete background maps for Garmin™ GPS receivers. In spite of the emphasis on Latin American countries, the techniques shown here can be applied to any other part of the word.

 

Creating your own Maps for Garmin™ GPS

Because Garmin™ has seemingly ignored the demand for software tools that allow consumers to create their own maps, some talented European developers have written programs that can produce un-encrypted MapSource® IMG files - IMG files are the actual map files that are downloaded to Garmin GPS units. Two examples of these programs are MapDekode created by the Austrian Peter and GPSMap. The present article treats of the use of the Mapdekode program.

 

These use of these programs does not violate Garmin's copyrights since users create maps starting with their own data (waypoints, routes and tracklogs) and the resulting IMG files are read by Garmin's own MapSource program.

 

The creation of maps for the Garmin™ GPS follows the model below:

 

(1) GPS TrackMaker® - (2) MapDekode - (3) MapSource® - (4) Garmin GPS with support for maps or POIs."

[Wintertime]

There is a way to get your maps into Garmin.

 

(1) GPS TrackMaker® - (2) MapDekode - (3) MapSource® - (4) Garmin GPS with support for maps or POIs.

Okay, maybe it is possible to make 1:24000 topos compatible with Garmin's format, if indeed the above-mentioned process works with rasterized maps. But the original DRGs run about 15-20MB. That's for one 7.5' quad. How much memory do today's GPS units have available (both internal and on cards)?

 

Patty

[foxtrot_xray]

Okay, maybe it is possible to make 1:24000 topos compatible with Garmin's format, if indeed the above-mentioned process works with rasterized maps. But the original DRGs run about 15-20MB. That's for one 7.5' quad. How much memory do today's GPS units have available (both internal and on cards)?

 

Patty

 

Obviously, with SD cards, you can have as much space as you need. 4Gb max, per card, unlimited number of cards. (Unless your little doozy supports SDHC cards, then currently 16Gb is the limit, only because that's all they've made.)

 

Now, internally, all I know of is the PN-20, since that's what I own. It's 32Mb internal.

[+Klemmer]

Just got a Colorado email add from REI: HERE

[foxtrot_xray]

Just got a Colorado email add from REI: HERE

 

$600?! And it doesn't offer real USGS Raster maps? (Yeah, yiou can import them using 3rd party.. but for $600, it had better come with them..)

 

I mean, I really like it, and if I ever won the lotto, I'd get one, but... whew. That's a lot of money.

[mloser]

Wintertime,

The Mapdekode program produces .img files, which appear to be static background images and not raster files. My suspicion is that they take up a lot less room than either DRG files or the maps that MapSource uses. But I have never taken the time to create any, so I can't be sure.

[+jwahl]

There were/are DLG's for quad maps, that represent the 1:24K planimetric features, and then 1:24K DEM's can probably be used to regenerate the contours. So then you have vector format maps.

 

That is something like what I expect has happened with the Colorado set. You don't have to buy a different Garmin to load them.

 

One source

 

Source site

 

- jerry

 

Just got a Colorado email add from REI: HERE

 

$600?! And it doesn't offer real USGS Raster maps? (Yeah, yiou can import them using 3rd party.. but for $600, it had better come with them..)

 

I mean, I really like it, and if I ever won the lotto, I'd get one, but... whew. That's a lot of money.

[+Klemmer]

For what it's worth, the .img file type is what Magellan uses for topo maps on the Meridian. It's the file type that Magellan Mapsend Topo produces for transfer to the GPSr.

[Wintertime]

Hi, all.

 

Thanks for the additional info. I'm away for the weekend (found two benchmarks today! neither has had an NGS report filed in 52 years), so will read the linked information later. But I did want to pass along that someone on the GPS Units and Software forum said that the topos in the Colorado 400t are at 1:100,000. :-( I want 1:24,000! If I can find a way to import USGS DRGs, I'll be happy. Even if I can only fit one quad at a time, that should suffice. Or maybe I stick with a non-mapping GPSr and my MacBook, which has a much bigger screen!! Most of the benchmarks I've been hunting (aside from that two-day backpacking trip) are right on the road, so the computer is almost always handy.

 

Patty

[+Klemmer]

Patty:

 

You know, for the difference in price between the Delorme PN-20, you could buy a good used PC, and use it only for uploading the PN-20.

 

Or, have you looked at the Delorme forums re the MAc issue? I know zilch about MACs, but something called "Parallels" seems to let Topo USA run on MACs and support the PN-20. I think. Delorme customer support is very knowledgeable, and can amybe confirm / deny.

 

Just some thoughts. I know you would love the PN-20 mapping capabilities.

[Wintertime]

Patty:

 

You know, for the difference in price between the Delorme PN-20, you could buy a good used PC, and use it only for uploading the PN-20.

Er, or I could load Windows on my Mac. But I'm not interested in that sorry. :-)

 

Patty

[+jwahl]

Another option, get a PDA such as an ipaq, oziexplorer ce, or NG topo, and a bluetooth sensor. It would all cost about half, and no limit of images you could use.

 

I see not many noticed that the links I posted to the colorado topo's a few days back. It almost seems like a scam that people would buy a specific unit to load these maps which are commercially available for any Garmin map unit.

 

Perhaps it is a different source, but isn't it odd that only Colorado is available?

 

The other question that needs to be resolved is what level of detail. They are NOT DRG's of the 1:24K quads, so they will not look like them exactly. But, if they use the 1:24K DLG's and sort of fake in the contours as they explain, they should be pretty close to looking like the same thing.

 

There are a whole class of GPS units for mapping and GIS that allow loading images of your choice, and they are generally about double or more the cost of a consumer grade GPS unit.

 

- jlw

 

 

Patty:

 

You know, for the difference in price between the Delorme PN-20, you could buy a good used PC, and use it only for uploading the PN-20.

Er, or I could load Windows on my Mac. But I'm not interested in that sorry. :-)

 

Patty

[Wintertime]

The other question that needs to be resolved is what level of detail. They are NOT DRG's of the 1:24K quads, so they will not look like them exactly. But, if they use the 1:24K DLG's and sort of fake in the contours as they explain, they should be pretty close to looking like the same thing.

I'm following some Colorado 400t discussions in the GPS Units and Software forum, too, and when I found out in one of those threads that the maps provided in the Colorado are not DRGs of the original USGS maps, I started losing interest in the unit. I plan my benchmark hunting around USGS 1:24K DRGs. (In fact, there's part of the Moccasin 7.5' quad visible right now in a window behind this Firefox window.) So I think I'll stick with my MacBook and MacGPS Pro for now!

 

Patty

[snakyjake]

Another option, get a PDA such as an ipaq, oziexplorer ce, or NG topo, and a bluetooth sensor. It would all cost about half, and no limit of images you could use.

I've been considering a PDA/GPS device too, and using similar software (http://www.memory-map.com/). The only downside to most PDA's is durability and power consumption. If I add a case for the PDA, then I have too much bulk.

 

Or if I had the money, I'd get this: http://www.tdsway.com/products/recon