Need your help - do I return my DeLorme PN-20?

[SCDaukas]

Good morning!

 

I am in the midst of trying to decide if I should keep the PN-20 I bought a couple of weeks ago, or return it and try something else...

 

I'm interested in a unit I can use in the field for hiking, "rock hounding", as well as for use in the car. What I want is an accurate GPS unit that lets me load topo (USGS 7.5) and geologic maps (e.g., Bedrock), use maps created using GIS applications and/or the GPX format I have recently read about. DeLorme don't support GPX, nor GeoPDF.

 

When I went with the new PN-20, I wouldn't have guessed there would be so much DeLorme product-detail to wrestle with in order to load data layers in the PN-20!

 

As it turns out, I am satisfied with the hardware (as this is my first GPS unit, I'd probably be satisfied with any unit, but my wife thinks the screen is too small), but I am not at all impressed by the software bundled with the unit (Topo USA 6.0). My first impression of the software was "this is perhaps the most unintuitive piece of software I have ever used." Topo USA has a less-than-intuitive conceptualization of "file management" that differs from the de facto of today's operating systems and has a steep learning curve for quite a few of its features (says a guy who has been in high-tech for more than 20 years). I printed their user guide at FedEx/Kinko's (they don't offer a printed manual) because I decided I needed to read it like a book so I could get some feel for the product...

 

Well, I then ran into a (not too common?) bug in the Topo USA 6.0 application that keeps me from downloading aerial data packets (for those who are familiar, its in the "NetLink" tab), and the only solution appears to be an uninstall, manual clean of the registry, and a reinstall. Of the several "fixes" discussed in one or more DeLorme forums, none have worked for me thus far (I am waiting for DeLorme customer support to get back to me, so there may be a light at the end of the tunnel.)

 

Then, several helpful folks in the DeLorme forum tell me that, given I want to use maps from other sources, I should really be using XMap instead of/in addition to Topo USA. XMap allows one to import MrSid, etc., and DeLorme offer an upgrade discount to new PN-20 customers. Sounded like the way to go, but... I ran across a thread where a user couldn't load what DeLorme agreed was a good MrSid file (no resolution for the past two months)... When I read that thread, I thought maybe XMap isn't any better than Topo USA.

 

When I received the PN-20, I anticipated having to do a fair bit of "playing" to get familiar with it, its software, etc. I thought I'd be able to get outside with my PN-20 in short order based on my assumption that there would be almost as many "GPS maps" available as there are "GIS maps", and dig into the bits and bytes of the product (and the GPS world) over time. Silly me!

 

So, I have come to learn that as a new PN-20 customer, I could buy XMap 5.2 Professional for an additional $100, use it to "import" MrSID versions of maps (2 point registration, I think), and be able to exchange that XMap 5.2 version of the imported image with my PN-20 for use as a "layer" with the Topo USA 6 map, routes, waypoints, etc. This solution puts me well over $500. If I want to use "GIS" maps, I'm looking at an additional ~$800. If I go that route, I'd be looking at ~$1200! At that price point, I realized I could buy a small laptop and a blue-tooth GPS receiver, or a fancy PDA, or any number of other solutions.

 

For a specific example of what I'd like to do with a GPS unit...

 

MassGIS have a very nice collection of all sorts of useful and interesting stuff for the GIS-type person. (See http://www.mass.gov/mgis/laylist.htm)

 

Of particular interest to me, among others, is http://www.mass.gov/mgis/bedlith.htm, but this layer is only available from MassGIS in an ESRI Shapefile format, with ArcView 3.x legend files and ArcGIS 8.2+ layer files... DeLorme only support ESRI shapefiles in the $800+ version of XMap because they consider "ESRI" to be "professional" level use (therefore, the customer is assumed to be a business that can afford to spend more on software)...

 

Having now been "initiated" into the realities of the GPS market through the DeLorme forums, I decided to ask around at work. After a phone call to a colleague at the USGS, I pointed my browser to their web site that provides maps in (and a viewer for) JPEG2000 and MrSID (http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/ngm-bin/ILView.pl?sid=q250_16357_us_1.sid&vtype=. This file suffers from not have georeferencing info, however there are ways to add this and/or convert the file using a Decode Tool (see http://ngmdb.usgs.gov/Info/imlibhelp/).

 

OK. Given my saga and the above example, can anyone out there recommend a hardware/software solution that would help me?

 

Thanks very much!

Steve

[+geognerd]

You can take the shapefiles and convert them to GPX using shp2gpx. I've also had success using shp2text to convert to GPX. I'm not too familiar with the PN-20 or how much support it has in GPSBabel, but it might be able to convert those GPX files into a format the PN-20 can use.

 

About the programs for converting the shapefiles, I have found that it helps to make sure the shapefiles aren't projected. Just have them use a lat-long coordinate system and WGS84. When I forget to "unproject" shapefiles and convert them to GPX, the data comes up in the wrong place geographically. I should note that not all of the shapefile's attribute data makes it into the GPX file.

 

Edited to add this: Also take a look at ExpertGPS to convert GIS data.

Edited October 23, 2007 by geognerd

[SCDaukas]

Thanks!

 

I've decided to return the PN-20. The fix that DeLorme customer support gave me didn't solve the problem, but it did cause me to have to reinstall my Linksys EasyLink wireless network!

 

I'm hoping Magellan's Triton will give me what I need... Their technical support folks said that while the official product information isn't yet available and they couldn't be certain, the Advantage software should handle "GPX, and others", and National Geographic's USGS topo will run on the device... If that is the case, then this will give me what I am looking for...

 

Steve

[+Indotguy]

Experience has shown me it always pays to do some research on a product before you purchase.

[+Haffy]

You might also want to check out Delorme's forums where you can find many answers to your questions and also some great folks who know what they are talking about. http://forum.delorme.com/

[SCDaukas]

Sad to say, I thought I had! I just hadn't come across anything to indicate DeLorme's software might not work as advertised...

 

I also have to say, in my own defense, that it wasn't entirely clear that XMap would be required for what I wanted to do. I had to chuckle when, while on hold getting the RMA number to return the unit, I heard the "commercial" for the PN-20 tout the all-in-one capabilities including using virtually any type of map data...

 

What I find most interesting is the seemingly randomness of the problems I encountered (based on the DeLorme forums). Would I be a happy customer today had I, for example, used a different PC? Yes, I would have had to upgrade to XMap, but that wouldn't have been a show-stopper by itself.

 

I'm glad, in a way, that I ran into this now - I would not be happy at all if I ran into this at some future time after upgrading to a new PC, for example...

 

Anyway, yes - more research than I would have guessed would seem to be in oder for GPS units. When you buy a GPS, you have to evaluate the company as you can't just use bits and pieces from different manufacturers. I had forgotten the difficulties that can be associated with proprietary hardware/software... (sigh)

[+embra]

Hi Steve;

 

I hang out both here and in the Delorme forum, so I've read your postings in both places. I have to confess that I still don't fully understand what you're trying to do (that's more a function of my comprehension level than your descriptive abilities, as I think you've given a sufficiently detailed explanation for those who work with custom map sources--you're just a bit off the edge of my universe).

 

While it's too bad that the Delorme offering won't work for you, I'm glad that you can return everything. At the least, I would suppose the experience to have had educational value. I hope that you will post here or in the Delorme forum what ultimately works for you. I'm a little skeptical that the Triton will be able to take any custom maps beyond what NG Topo can generate, but we're on the verge of learning a lot about the capabilities and limitations of that new product. If you do give the Triton a try, I'd suggest buying from someplace where you might have to pay a little more, but you have more liberal return options (REI might be such a place) because I wouldn't be surprised if you need to exercise it.

 

GPS's so far have been quite proprietary in the map software they could use. I think there is capability in Garmin handhelds to take custom maps--no first hand experience of that from me, but search this forum--and the only capability of Magellan Explorists to deal with custom maps can be read here for reference (it makes my head swim). I'm liking the PN-20 myself right now now because it can display maps generated from T6, which, for its faults, still seems to me to offer the most bang for the buck in mapping software features. It does what *I* need/want, and more. You have a legitimate need apparently not satisfied by Delorme, but because GPS manufacturers have not yet been much inclined to sell devices that use someone else's maps, I fear you may have a hard time finding what you want at a price you would probably like.

 

Anyway, I offer sincere best wishes in your search, and please do let us know how it turns out. The Triton does offer hope, but I wouldn't count on much assistance from their customer support (ample threads on that topic are available in this forum).

[SCDaukas]

Hi Max!

 

Don't be too sure about my communication abilities - I may be on the edge of most people's universes(s)!

 

I too was happy that the return was as simple as could be. If DeLorme would have granted me a few more weeks with the product, I was prepared to try T6 on other PCs running Windows (or as I'm fond of typing, window$) and also load XMap. I am reasonably sure that the problem I ran into is intrinsic to T6, but only shows up with some pathological combination of factors. But, time was running out and I got tired of spending so much time not using the PN-20. Too bad, I did like the hardware...

 

Garmin tech support told me they can't offer the 7.5 USGS (1:24k) Topo (1:50k for select areas only) and do not have a way of importing "custom maps".

 

So, I'm prepared to wait and see what Magellan have to offer with Triton. I would guess that DeLorme will have a new release of T6 / XMap that may be worth a second look if Triton doesn't measure up. Perhaps I am making the same mistake in placing my hopes on Triton? After all, Magellan are making essentially the same claims as DeLorme regarding the ability to upload "custom" maps when I spoke with Magellan's tech support... I guess I'm now squarely in "trust, but verify" state of mind so I hope to find an vendor that has a demo unit that I can actually try...

 

Given the prices involved, I have also thought about getting a small "plamtop" / palm / whatever and using some sort of blue tooth GPS unit... This approach holds a certain appeal in that it reduces the dependence on proprietary hardware (and may allow for a Linux-based solution as well).

 

Anyway, I'll let you know what I learn.

 

Regards,

Steve

[+embra]

Garmin doesn't officially support custom maps, but I think some people have found ways to get data in there. It's a hack job. See this thread or the results of this Google search.

 

Personally I find such approaches too complicated for my tastes. Although the Triton should take NG Topo maps, my suspicion is that it may be as complicated to get the kind of maps you want in there, too. I own NG Topo, and they don't allow for much modification in themselves. Your conversation with Magellan suggests something else entirely may be possible, though, so we'll have to see what plays out.