60CSx vs Vista HCx

[mhygema]

I'm a Rhino 530 owner, looking to get my hands on something smaller and ligher. I'm also tired of not having good reception in tough situations.

 

As I look through the Garmin website, these two units (60CSx and Vista HCx) look identical in performance specs. Both have the new high-sensitivity reciever. Both have a compass and barometric altimiter. Both have color displays and the ability to accept memory cards. So why is the vista smaller, lighter, and about 100 dollars cheaper?

 

Best,

Matt

[+fratermus]

As I look through the Garmin website, these two units (60CSx and Vista HCx) look identical in performance specs. Both have the new high-sensitivity reciever. Both have a compass and barometric altimiter. Both have color displays and the ability to accept memory cards. So why is the vista smaller, lighter, and about 100 dollars cheaper?

 

They both have high-sensitivity chipsets, but the 60 is the older form factor and has more interface buttons.

 

The HCX line might be a slightly better chipset although they are both great compared to the normal chipset. I've used GPSr in both form factors and liked them both.

[+TrailGators]

It's a matter of preference. The 60CSX is a little easier to use in the car for navigating. The Vista is smaller.

[+Chuy!]

The Vista HCx seems to be what you want for the 60CSx (2.4 x 6.1 x 1.3) is not much smaller than the Rino (2.3 x 5.1 x 1.8).

 

One difference in price is the cost of chipsets. The Etrex' use Tiawan-based MediaTek; the 60CSx uses California-based SiRF. Guess which costs less.

 

Other factors: 60CSx has a larger screen display; 60CSx allows both serial and USB PC connection; 60CSx comes with a 64mb data card; and other smaller features, such as the antenna in the 60CSx is outside the body and well protected.

 

I have a Vista HCx and prefer it over the listed advantages of the 60CSx. The Vista gets longer battery life (25 v 18 hrs); is smaller and lighter; and the screen is brighter at it's highest setting.

[gallet]

So why is the vista smaller, lighter, and about 100 dollars cheaper?

 

In real world prices the difference is only about $40 because the 60CSx is available on ebay for $300 with a $50 rebate and you can pick up the HCx for $210.

 

But you can't go on prices because Garmin just do whatever they can get away with. You will see on their website that they sell the old non H models at the same price as the new ones.

 

To understand the difference you need to realise that before the H chips came out in the eTrex range, the 60CSx was the top dog and Garmin could therefore charge a premium price for it because if you wanted the extra sensitivity you had no choice.

 

The H chips in the eTrex range have only been out for a few months, (hence the rebate for the 60CSx proving they were overpriced.

 

At the moment it all comes down to how you like the button placement because that is the major difference apart from the extra bulk.

 

I'm going to order a 60CSx so I can do a side by side comparison with the HCx and put this whole issue to bed about whether the 10% bigger screen on the 60 makes any difference considering it is lower res and duller. I'll post my results here when they are available, probably in a few weeks.

 

My money is on the Vista HCx though.

[mhygema]

Thanks for the info all. Gallet, I'll definetly be looking for that side-by-side comparison. Right now I'm leaning toward the Vista. I'm tired of that big, heavy RHINO dragging me down by the neck while attached to my backpack straps.

 

So why is the vista smaller, lighter, and about 100 dollars cheaper?

 

In real world prices the difference is only about $40 because the 60CSx is available on ebay for $300 with a $50 rebate and you can pick up the HCx for $210.

 

But you can't go on prices because Garmin just do whatever they can get away with. You will see on their website that they sell the old non H models at the same price as the new ones.

 

To understand the difference you need to realise that before the H chips came out in the eTrex range, the 60CSx was the top dog and Garmin could therefore charge a premium price for it because if you wanted the extra sensitivity you had no choice.

 

The H chips in the eTrex range have only been out for a few months, (hence the rebate for the 60CSx proving they were overpriced.

 

At the moment it all comes down to how you like the button placement because that is the major difference apart from the extra bulk.

 

I'm going to order a 60CSx so I can do a side by side comparison with the HCx and put this whole issue to bed about whether the 10% bigger screen on the 60 makes any difference considering it is lower res and duller. I'll post my results here when they are available, probably in a few weeks.

 

My money is on the Vista HCx though.

[Frabble]

I'd check out posts about the HCx models first. Early MTK chipsets had problems with low speed tracking which is an issue at slow walking speeds and Garmin seem to be struggling to compensate for this. Track logs appear to be fine, but if real time data as displayed on the Trip Computer page is important to you (distances, speed, times) then I'd look at the 60CSx.

Edited October 16, 2007 by Frabble

[gallet]

Track logs appear to be fine, but if real time data as displayed on the Trip Computer page is important to you (distances, speed, times) then I'd look at the 60CSx.

 

But surely you would agree that it would be foolish to choose an unnecessarily bulky gps with worse battery life, and a lower quality screen purely on the basis of a minor odometer bug that will be fixed with a software update?

[oxothuk]

But surely you would agree that it would be foolish to choose an unnecessarily bulky gps with worse battery life, and a lower quality screen purely on the basis of a minor odometer bug that will be fixed with a software update?

For those of us who use the odometer, it is not a "minor bug". And since Garmin has made several unsuccessful attempts to fix the bug already, I can't just assume that it will be fixed in a future update.

 

Of course I could do without the odometer (or without a GPSr at all, for that matter) - but why should I? This feature works fine on my old yellow eTrex.

 

My primary motivation for upgrading at all is to get the high-sensitivity receiver, more storage, and longer waypoint names. I like the form factor of the Vista HCx - it's what I'm used to. So I'll wait another month or so to see if Garmin can find a fix for the odometer. If not, I'll be getting the 60csx.

[+Grinch & Gremlin]

Thanks for the info all. Gallet, I'll definetly be looking for that side-by-side comparison. Right now I'm leaning toward the Vista. I'm tired of that big, heavy RHINO dragging me down by the neck while attached to my backpack straps.

 

I have both units and have compared them side-by-side. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. I can see you leaning toward the HCx because of your comment about weight. Your Rhino weighs 10.3 oz, the 60CSx weighs 7.5 oz and the HCx weighs 5.5 oz. If weight is the big thing, then the HCx certainly gives you the lightest option.

 

2. For my own two units, the HCx has been slightly more sensitive than the 60CSx. However, others have reported near-identical sensitivity so you should take my results with a grain of salt. It may just be something about my particular units and I've seen no one else report the same thing.

 

3. The screens on both are fine. The resolution is nearly identical in terms of total pixels with the 60CSx having more pixels high and the HCx having more pixels wide. Because the 60CSx screen is slightly larger it can feel like you're seeing a bit more with it even though you're really not. Really, the resolution thing is simply not something you're even conscious of when using the two devices. When I look at the two side-by-side, I certainly do not notice any difference in sharpness or readability. One nice thing in the 60CSx is that the status bar is on-screen the whole time, showing battery status and such. You have to press the on/off button on the HCx to get that to come up for a few seconds.

 

4. The HCx screen is brighter, but you honestly wouldn't think the 60CSx screen wasn't bright unless you were holding them side-by-side. While testing them, if I had the HCx in its holster and was looking at the 60CSx, I certainly wasn't standing there thinking it was dim. It looked nice and bright and clean. But then when I'd get out the HCx, it would startle me and I'd find myself muttering, 'wow, it really is brighter.' Ironically, there is one aspect of the brighter screen I don't like. I use the Topaz color scheme on the 60CSx because I like muted earth colors. When I got the HCx, I started to set it to the same thing, but what is a very pleasant tone of light mustard on the 60CSx is a garish and harsh yellow on the HCx. Not that you'd make a buying decision on that, but I thought it was worth noting that everything is a tradeoff. If you will be using your GPSr in bright sun, the brightness might be an issue and you'd probably prefer the HCx. I use mine in forests and it simply doesn't matter. In my opinion, the characterization of the 60CSx screen as 'inferior' is unjustified. They are just different.

 

5. The 60CSx feels good in the hand, doesn't feel unreasonably large, and is easy for a novice to operate with more and labeled buttons. The HCx is smaller and less obtrusive when hiking and although you have to remember what button does what with single presses and press/holds, etc., once you know it, it's really nice to be able to use it one-handed. The 60CSx is more awkward one-handed and is really designed for pressing buttons with the hand not holding the unit. I like the feel of the HCx better.

 

6. Both feel rugged so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

7. You do need to consider the odometer bug and simply decide how much, if at all, it might matter to you. My answer to Gallet's question is... no, it would not be foolish to buy the 60CSx to avoid the odometer bug if that feature is important to you. Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will. For whatever reason, several people in this forum have decided that since the bug doesn't matter to them, it must not matter to anyone else. That's simply not true. My advice is to read about the bug and decide whether it matters to you. It obviously didn't keep me from buying an HCx, but that's partly because I can take the 60CSx when I know I'll want to keep track of distance traveled on the trail... and I really do think that Garmin will fix it eventually so I took the chance.

 

Overall, both are excellent devices, you can't really go wrong with either one and neither choice would be 'foolish'. I'd favor the HCx as better overall if not for the odometer bug. But the bug does exist so, if I could only have one or the other, I could go either way depending on how important I thought that feature would be to my navigation.

[+TrailGators]

You do need to consider the odometer bug and simply decide how much, if at all, it might matter to you. My answer to Gallet's question is... no, it would not be foolish to buy the 60CSx to avoid the odometer bug if that feature is important to you. Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will.

If they haven't been able to come up with a fix for four months, then that doesn't sound good. Maybe it's really a hardware limitation issue and software can't fix it. Anyhow, that is an important feature to me. I agree that you should not shrug that off unless you've already bought one.

 

After reading all the comments, I wanted to say that I've never used two hands with my 60CS. I hold the unit in my hand and use my thumb to operate all the buttons with no problems at all. The buttons on the 60CSx are in front so if you have a windshield mount they are easier to operate in a car. I have a Legend and I prefer my 60CS buttons. Also you should get the car adaptor to conserve batteries and to keep the unit lit at night in the car.

[-Oz-]

After reading all the comments, I wanted to say that I've never used two hands with my 60CS. I hold the unit in my hand and use my thumb to operate all the buttons with no problems at all. The buttons on the 60CSx are in front so if you have a windshield mount they are easier to operate in a car. I have a Legend and I prefer my 60CS buttons. Also you should get the car adaptor to conserve batteries and to keep the unit lit at night in the car.

I also have only used it with 1 hand (60csx). Even hiking. I'm not sure how I'd do it with two hands, I think it'd be awkward. I do it the same way, hand around thumb to navigate.

 

I have had the 60csx for a long time so this debate means very little to me but due to the odometer bug I personally would buy the 60 over the Vista. I've used it quite a few times (running and skiing especially) and would be quite irked by it.

[mhygema]

Excellent review sir. You've answered many of my questions.

I had the chance to hold both units at the store yestarday and agree that the 60 is difficult to use with one hand. Since I'm usually reaching up and operating my GPS while it is attached to the pack straps, this is important to me.

Glad to hear that the consensus is that the reception between them is similar. I understand that while they are both "high sensitivity", they use different chipsets from different manufacturers. I also heard rumors that the 60's external antenna was allegedly more sensitive. My current rhino 530 drives me insane when it loses reception in canyons and heavy woods. Very unnerving when the it doesn't know where it is for prolonged periods.

For me the odometer is frosting, not a necessity. I'm quite certian that the odometer on my rhino is not accurate either, so I'm not in the habit of trusting it anyway.

 

Can anyone comment on the altimiter? Rumor has it that it does not take readings as frequently as in previous units. Also, with the detail on the topo maps turned up to full, can these units pan the map without taking forever to re-draw it? Again, the old rhinos blow in this respect.

 

Best,

Matt

 

Thanks for the info all. Gallet, I'll definetly be looking for that side-by-side comparison. Right now I'm leaning toward the Vista. I'm tired of that big, heavy RHINO dragging me down by the neck while attached to my backpack straps.

 

I have both units and have compared them side-by-side. Here are some things to consider.

 

1. I can see you leaning toward the HCx because of your comment about weight. Your Rhino weighs 10.3 oz, the 60CSx weighs 7.5 oz and the HCx weighs 5.5 oz. If weight is the big thing, then the HCx certainly gives you the lightest option.

 

2. For my own two units, the HCx has been slightly more sensitive than the 60CSx. However, others have reported near-identical sensitivity so you should take my results with a grain of salt. It may just be something about my particular units and I've seen no one else report the same thing.

 

3. The screens on both are fine. The resolution is nearly identical in terms of total pixels with the 60CSx having more pixels high and the HCx having more pixels wide. Because the 60CSx screen is slightly larger it can feel like you're seeing a bit more with it even though you're really not. Really, the resolution thing is simply not something you're even conscious of when using the two devices. When I look at the two side-by-side, I certainly do not notice any difference in sharpness or readability. One nice thing in the 60CSx is that the status bar is on-screen the whole time, showing battery status and such. You have to press the on/off button on the HCx to get that to come up for a few seconds.

 

4. The HCx screen is brighter, but you honestly wouldn't think the 60CSx screen wasn't bright unless you were holding them side-by-side. While testing them, if I had the HCx in its holster and was looking at the 60CSx, I certainly wasn't standing there thinking it was dim. It looked nice and bright and clean. But then when I'd get out the HCx, it would startle me and I'd find myself muttering, 'wow, it really is brighter.' Ironically, there is one aspect of the brighter screen I don't like. I use the Topaz color scheme on the 60CSx because I like muted earth colors. When I got the HCx, I started to set it to the same thing, but what is a very pleasant tone of light mustard on the 60CSx is a garish and harsh yellow on the HCx. Not that you'd make a buying decision on that, but I thought it was worth noting that everything is a tradeoff. If you will be using your GPSr in bright sun, the brightness might be an issue and you'd probably prefer the HCx. I use mine in forests and it simply doesn't matter. In my opinion, the characterization of the 60CSx screen as 'inferior' is unjustified. They are just different.

 

5. The 60CSx feels good in the hand, doesn't feel unreasonably large, and is easy for a novice to operate with more and labeled buttons. The HCx is smaller and less obtrusive when hiking and although you have to remember what button does what with single presses and press/holds, etc., once you know it, it's really nice to be able to use it one-handed. The 60CSx is more awkward one-handed and is really designed for pressing buttons with the hand not holding the unit. I like the feel of the HCx better.

 

6. Both feel rugged so that shouldn't be an issue.

 

7. You do need to consider the odometer bug and simply decide how much, if at all, it might matter to you. My answer to Gallet's question is... no, it would not be foolish to buy the 60CSx to avoid the odometer bug if that feature is important to you. Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will. For whatever reason, several people in this forum have decided that since the bug doesn't matter to them, it must not matter to anyone else. That's simply not true. My advice is to read about the bug and decide whether it matters to you. It obviously didn't keep me from buying an HCx, but that's partly because I can take the 60CSx when I know I'll want to keep track of distance traveled on the trail... and I really do think that Garmin will fix it eventually so I took the chance.

 

Overall, both are excellent devices, you can't really go wrong with either one and neither choice would be 'foolish'. I'd favor the HCx as better overall if not for the odometer bug. But the bug does exist so, if I could only have one or the other, I could go either way depending on how important I thought that feature would be to my navigation.

[SiliconFiend]

Can anyone comment on the altimiter? Rumor has it that it does not take readings as frequently as in previous units. Also, with the detail on the topo maps turned up to full, can these units pan the map without taking forever to re-draw it? Again, the old rhinos blow in this respect.

 

Best,

Matt

I think the altimeter thing is a red herring. I think someone mis-read a review and then posted about it. I haven't read anything in a review, etc. that says the altimeter is slower than the previous model. There is a difference from the previous units in that it can't record the altitude/pressure while the unit is powered off.

I don't know about the Topo maps, since I don't have those loaded, but it is reasonably responsive to drawing detailed road networks (it might take a second or two to fill in after a pan). I haven't played with the older models much, but I understand this unit is much faster in drawing maps.

[DonpK]

I also have observed the odometer problem at low speeds with the Hcx. I also noticed that some of the other paramenters on the Trip Log page are off, for example, the Stopped Time.

 

I think what is happening is the Trip Computer problem may be in part dependent on the strength of the satellite signals. When I first observed the problem the Hcx was in my shirt pocket. Occasionally while walking I would remove it from my pocket and just as it came out of my pocket, I noticed the speed indicated 0.0, then a moment later, still holding in my hand, the speed again registered properly.

 

I then ran a test, first walking about a mile with the Hcx in my pocket. The unit show the Trip Computer problems. The I repeated the route, this time holding the unit in my hand in front of me. The Trip Computer looked fine. I would be interested to hear from other people who can run the same test.

 

Don

[geoprincesss]

Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will. If they haven't been able to come up with a fix for four months, then that doesn't sound good. Maybe it's really a hardware limitation issue and software can't fix it. Anyhow, that is an important feature to me. I agree that you should not shrug that off unless you've already bought one.

Perhaps Garmin is reluctant to fix the odometer problem as it may sway potential 60CSX buyers to the HCX series if they did. Perhaps when the 60CSX inventory is sufficiently reduced to bring out a replacement model, the odometer will get fixed on the HCX.

[SiliconFiend]

Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will. If they haven't been able to come up with a fix for four months, then that doesn't sound good. Maybe it's really a hardware limitation issue and software can't fix it. Anyhow, that is an important feature to me. I agree that you should not shrug that off unless you've already bought one.

Perhaps Garmin is reluctant to fix the odometer problem as it may sway potential 60CSX buyers to the HCX series if they did. Perhaps when the 60CSX inventory is sufficiently reduced to bring out a replacement model, the odometer will get fixed on the HCX.

Sorry, but that's laughable. I seriously doubt Garmin would intentionally cripple a product just to sell you on the upgrade. They're not used-car salesmen. More likely it's a difficult problem to solve and they're still learning about quirks with the MediaTek chipset.

[geoprincesss]

Probably wouldn't intentionally cripple it, but might drag their feet fixing an unintentional problem if they think there's too much interest in the lower priced alternative.

[DonpK]

It looks like Garmin might be preparing to phase out the 60Csx. They've introduced the upgraded eTrexes so that they now have virtually the same capabilities as the 60Csx, plus they are offering a $50 factory rebate on the model.

 

Don

[BuckyBuck]

Garmin has known about that bug at least since July and they still have not successfully fixed it so you can't know that they ever will. If they haven't been able to come up with a fix for four months, then that doesn't sound good. Maybe it's really a hardware limitation issue and software can't fix it. Anyhow, that is an important feature to me. I agree that you should not shrug that off unless you've already bought one.

Perhaps Garmin is reluctant to fix the odometer problem as it may sway potential 60CSX buyers to the HCX series if they did. Perhaps when the 60CSX inventory is sufficiently reduced to bring out a replacement model, the odometer will get fixed on the HCX.

Sorry, but that's laughable. I seriously doubt Garmin would intentionally cripple a product just to sell you on the upgrade. They're not used-car salesmen. More likely it's a difficult problem to solve and they're still learning about quirks with the MediaTek chipset.

Yeah, that's laughable. How dare someone suggest such a thing. Why, next thing you know, someone will allege that Garmin is headquartered in the Cayman Islands simply to avoid paying taxes.

[+TrailGators]

Probably wouldn't intentionally cripple it, but might drag their feet fixing an unintentional problem if they think there's too much interest in the lower priced alternative.

I don't know any solid company that would purposely prolong not helping their customers. They all want future business.....

[+Grinch & Gremlin]

After reading all the comments, I wanted to say that I've never used two hands with my 60CS. I hold the unit in my hand and use my thumb to operate all the buttons with no problems at all. The buttons on the 60CSx are in front so if you have a windshield mount they are easier to operate in a car. I have a Legend and I prefer my 60CS buttons. Also you should get the car adaptor to conserve batteries and to keep the unit lit at night in the car.

 

That just shows how personal these things are. My wife likes the feel of the 60CSx better too, but I like the HCx better. I have used the 60CSx with one hand, but it just feels awkward to me so I almost always use it two-handed. Still, that brings to mind another piece of advice for people trying to make this choice... try to find both models in a store and hold them yourself to see which you like better. (I see the OP has already done that. Good move.)

[+Grinch & Gremlin]

Glad to hear that the consensus is that the reception between them is similar. I understand that while they are both "high sensitivity", they use different chipsets from different manufacturers. I also heard rumors that the 60's external antenna was allegedly more sensitive. My current rhino 530 drives me insane when it loses reception in canyons and heavy woods. Very unnerving when the it doesn't know where it is for prolonged periods.

For me the odometer is frosting, not a necessity. I'm quite certian that the odometer on my rhino is not accurate either, so I'm not in the habit of trusting it anyway.

 

Can anyone comment on the altimiter? Rumor has it that it does not take readings as frequently as in previous units. Also, with the detail on the topo maps turned up to full, can these units pan the map without taking forever to re-draw it? Again, the old rhinos blow in this respect.

 

In theory, the 60CSx should be able to receive a good signal in almost any orientation because of the quad-helix antenna (even hanging upside down from your neck), while the HCx is supposed to need to be held horizontally because of the patch antenna. While I have never put them through any type of formal test, I often carry the HCx in the Garmin holster on my belt for long periods of time (so it's oriented vertically) and I've never lost a signal for that. I've also dropped it in a front pocket and carried it however it happened to be sitting, again with no problem. So I'm not really sure the antenna is an issue in practice.

 

If the odometer isn't important to you, especially given your attempt to lighten up from the Rhino, then I'm not seeing much reason not to go with the HCx. The altimeter thing was based on a single article online and I admit it did concern me when I read it, but after discussing it in the forum I came away believing it was really a different issue. I think the limitation is that, the original Vista and Vista C would continue to record altimeter data when the unit was off. The HCx doesn't do that; it must be turned on to record elevation. While I can sure see how they could be an issue for someone who needs that, I decided it wasn't an issue for me because I usually leave my unit on while I hike. But that could be something for you to think about if it matters to you.

[BuckyBuck]

Probably wouldn't intentionally cripple it, but might drag their feet fixing an unintentional problem if they think there's too much interest in the lower priced alternative.

I don't know any solid company that would purposely prolong not helping their customers. They all want future business.....

Excuse me while I jump in my Ford Pinto, light up a cigarette, and cash in some more of my old Enron stock at the local Payday Loan office.

[+the hermit crabs]

One other difference between the two units that I don't think has been mentioned yet: as far as I know, the HCx has the same rubber gasket as the previous eTrex models. A lot of people (myself included) have had trouble with it -- the adhesive that Garmin uses doesn't always hold properly, and the gasket detaches from the unit. The 60CSx doesn't have this issue.

[SiliconFiend]

One other difference between the two units that I don't think has been mentioned yet: as far as I know, the HCx has the same rubber gasket as the previous eTrex models. A lot of people (myself included) have had trouble with it -- the adhesive that Garmin uses doesn't always hold properly, and the gasket detaches from the unit. The 60CSx doesn't have this issue.

I haven't heard people complaining about this specifically with the new HCx units, in fact I thought I read it was fixed, but you could be right. In any case, it seems to be a problem when the units are exposed to heat (i.e., left in the car).

[+the hermit crabs]

One other difference between the two units that I don't think has been mentioned yet: as far as I know, the HCx has the same rubber gasket as the previous eTrex models. A lot of people (myself included) have had trouble with it -- the adhesive that Garmin uses doesn't always hold properly, and the gasket detaches from the unit. The 60CSx doesn't have this issue.

I haven't heard people complaining about this specifically with the new HCx units, in fact I thought I read it was fixed, but you could be right. In any case, it seems to be a problem when the units are exposed to heat (i.e., left in the car).

It generally takes several months for the problem to start; I think that the HCx is new enough that maybe no one has seen it happen yet.

 

And yes, you're right, it is heat-related -- and since the H-models have such better reception than previous eTrex models, maybe it won't be necessary to keep them on the dashboard or sunroof in order to keep from losing satellites, like we have had to do with older models. So they won't be exposed to the same levels of heat and sunlight.

 

We will find out at some point, since our HCx just arrived in the mail today!

[+Vodor and Scorsby]

The rubber surrounds have been a problem on all the etrex models, this is easily fixed by most local outdoor shops though. One way to avoid it is to keep it in a case/pouch. Many of the problems start when there is a mixture of heat and suncream while you are holding it, as the heat softens the glue, the suncream gets in and stops it from sticking back when it cools down.