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Multiple Recoveries A Few Days Apart

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I was scrolling through data sheets when I noticed that NCGS and USPSQD hit the same area, six days apart, finding many of the same marks. Then I stumbled across this oddity. Oh well, a lot can happen in six days, I suppose! :D

 

FY0938 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By

FY0938 HISTORY - UNK MONUMENTED SOURR

FY0938 HISTORY - 1967 GOOD CGS

FY0938 HISTORY - 1977 GOOD NCDOT

FY0938 HISTORY - 1981 GOOD NCGS

FY0938 HISTORY - 1983 GOOD USPSQD

FY0938 HISTORY - 1988 GOOD USPSQD

FY0938 HISTORY - 19960702 GOOD NCGS

FY0938 HISTORY - 20050418 GOOD NCGS

FY0938 HISTORY - 20050424 MARK NOT FOUND USPSQD

 

By the way, I'm surprised I have not met the USPSQD out in the field. We work the same areas of central and eastern North Carolina. I've come across numerous occupied stations, but have never found anyone else simply doing recoveries. Does anyone have a story to tell about a Close Encounter of the Third Kind?

 

-Paul-

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..I've run across the PA Dept. of Transportation (affectionately known as PennDOT) occupying the same station on 2 different days - the 2nd time time I stopped & had a conversation about recoveries, etc & took a slew of pix (one of which is my avatar & looked a lot better full-size) - they're currently working on a big statewide mapping project. I DO remember about 6 months back, I was working an old Reading RR line for MIA bolts from the 50's & at the end of the evening as I retraced my route back homeward - as I zoomed past one of the first spots which was visible from the road & saw an empty car parked at the EXACT same spot where I had parked (in the middle of nowhere, mind you) and was positive that I had just had an mloser sighting (it WAS a RR) - I thought 'nah' but I must admit firing up the PC as soon as I got in the house! Could have been one of those cache things nearby ..never checked on that tho'... :D

 

PS - turns out nobody else has visited the line I was working on since... - good reason - I think it's now known as the Poison Ivy Line! :D

Edited by Ernmark

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I have looked for over 1,200 marks and have NEVER NEVER seen anyone else interested in them. Neither benchmarker nor surveyor. I have never seen a mark occupied or a crew remotely near one. I guess I am in the minority.

 

Ernmark, what kind of car did you see and where was the line? Maybe I forgot to log that day! I have a few days of hunting sitting around that I haven't logged yet. You are right, I have visited most rail lines in this area. Wait, I take that back, ALL rail lines in this area. Most of my Reading RR visits are east of you though. Funny about that PennDOT mapping project (and what do you mean about "affectionately"? LOL I have never heard anyone refer to PennDOT, or any DOT affectionately!). I emailed PennDOT a few months ago and offered my services to help look for non-NGS marks and was pretty much totally ignored. Maybe they already figure since I looked for every one in 3 counties there is little I would add! LOL Or maybe I should re-email. I might just have been forgotten.

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I've looked for about 300 marks (164 NGS logs plus a dozen destroyed) and never encountered anyone using or looking for the same benchmark. The closest I've come is wooden stakes and orange paint at the mark that looked like they had been placed in the same season.

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Ernmark, what kind of car did you see and where was the line?

I'm not tellin' ! ..actually it's the line that once ran from Carlisle to Gettysburg (1st 6 mi. are gone) ..I've left a few holes thanks to not getting it done before this year's crop of poison ivy sprang to life. The car? - a 4-door, I think ...all I remember is the rack in the back window containing 2 metal detectors, a really long 2-tine camping fork, a rake & shovel, & the large white GPS antenna mounted on the roof...

 

Funny about that PennDOT mapping project (and what do you mean about "affectionately"? LOL I have never heard anyone refer to PennDOT, or any DOT affectionately!).

...I of course was "embellishing" a tad... - I did find my link to what I think may have been the project - http://www.penndotpams.org/pams/pams.nsf/p...viewer?openform (for all I know, I may have gotten the link from here) - the interesting thing is that they've set about a 1/2 dozen marks in the area & didn't seem to have used some perfectly good ones in the NGS database that are in the same area.. :D

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Yeah, that was my car. It is a 4 door. I don't think I have run a line along the railroad near Carlisle in a long time, but I have been all over the place so I can't honestly recall any more.

 

As for the PennDOT thing, they need horizontal control for aerial photo correction so they would need adjusted marks for their control points. Most likely they needed GPS available marks also.

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Yeah, that was my car. It is a 4 door. I don't think I have run a line along the railroad near Carlisle in a long time, but I have been all over the place so I can't honestly recall any more.

 

Here's a pic:

66d37b5b-4117-498a-ab05-10f3262cd0f6.jpg

...does that one look familiar ? :D

 

...actually it was KW1976

 

There's rust on top of the rails, but someone I know gets yelled at by the RR "bulls" (or the local business who is serviced by the RR) every time she walks her dog by the tracks

 

..for PennDOT - couldn't they occupy & adjust one of the NGS marks for their own use?...or not because since its in the NGS db, that is the "official" info... yeah, guess it'd be easier to set their own (why oh why didn't they want to set one in front of MY lawn?!...although the 'monuments' consist of low grade cement poured into a small dug hole - nice 3.5" bronze disk tho')

 

..as for PFF's question, the closest thing I saw to a chance meeting was a mark in the gallery where 2 people did actually find it seperately on the same day....

Edited by Ernmark

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That looks very different from the hundred or so rivets I have found. No wait, it looks exactly the same! As does the bridge and the rails, and everything else in your pics!

I don't think I was ever there though.

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All I remember is the rack in the back window containing 2 metal detectors, a really long 2-tine camping fork, a rake & shovel, & the large white GPS antenna mounted on the roof...

 

Mloser obviously takes benchmark hunting VERY seriously! Now we know why he stays at the top of the STATISTICS page.

 

Like an old gun fighter, he probably wades into a situation with a metal detector in each hand. :o

 

-Paul-

 

"Excuse me, Sir. Are those a matched pair of RadioShack 3300's?"

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I do take it seriously, but don't quite possess all that stuff. I have 3 old camping forks for prodding (they bend easily so I keep a couple in the car as backups), but I have torn the fork part off each of them because I am not good enough to use double prods at once. Oddly enough I now have two metal detectors after getting my RS one, and haven't given up on my old cheapie just yet, while I learn how to use the new one. The cheapie is also much more portable, so it will remain for my hikes into the woods for now. No rake, but I have a fold up camp shovel with me at all times. All these tools may come into play today as I look for KV3859.

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Outside of Frederick, Maryland, a while back I came across a mark occupied by a satellite receiver of some kind (RTK maybe?). With no one else around, I carefully brushed the dirt from around the disk and took photos. I wandered off in search of other nearby marks, and when I returned there was a woman and her daughter by the equipment. I said something about being careful not to disturb it. I know, she said, it's mine.

 

Since she was there with a young girl, didn't have the usual surveyor's kit of hardhat, safety vest, etc., I hope you will believe me when I say my presumption that she was not a survey was not based solely on gender. Still, the vast majority of surveyors are men, but I'm glad to see at least one woman (and her daughter!) out there.

 

-ArtMan-

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KU1433'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1952

KU1433'IN NEW YORK.

KU1433'IN NEW YORK, IN BOROUGH OF MANHATTAN, IN CENTRAL PARK, ALONG

KU1433'TRAVERSE 3 (WEST 86TH STREET EXTENDED) ACROSS PARK, ABOUT 0.1

KU1433'MILE SOUTHEAST OF INTERSECTION OF CENTRAL PARK WEST AVENUE AND

KU1433'WEST 86TH STREET, SET VERTICALLY IN THE SOUTHEAST FACE OF GRANITE

KU1433'WATER TABLE OF A SHORT TUNNEL, 6 FEET NORTHEAST OF NORTHEAST

KU1433'CURB OF TRAVERSE ROAD 3, AND ABOUT 5 FEET ABOVE SIDE WALK.

KU1433

KU1433 STATION RECOVERY (2005)

KU1433

KU1433'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2005 (PR)

KU1433'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

KU1433

KU1433 STATION RECOVERY (2005)

KU1433

KU1433'RECOVERY NOTE BY GEOCACHING 2005 (RG)

KU1433'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.

 

Poppa Bear-NYC and I each logged this one to NGS nine days apart.

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Outside of Frederick, Maryland, a while back I came across a mark occupied by a satellite receiver of some kind (RTK maybe?). With no one else around, I carefully brushed the dirt from around the disk and took photos. I wandered off in search of other nearby marks, and when I returned there was a woman and her daughter by the equipment. I said something about being careful not to disturb it. I know, she said, it's mine.

 

Since she was there with a young girl, didn't have the usual surveyor's kit of hardhat, safety vest, etc., I hope you will believe me when I say my presumption that she was not a survey was not based solely on gender. Still, the vast majority of surveyors are men, but I'm glad to see at least one woman (and her daughter!) out there.

 

-ArtMan-

Sorry for the hijack but...

 

It's probably not a good idea to make any assumptions about surveyors, either about how they are dressed (or how you think they should be dressed), or about their gender.

 

I habitually wear an orange vest but rarely do I wear a hard hat. If I'm in a relatively safe area, I may not wear my vest either, (particularly in recent weeks when we had over two weeks straight of 114 degree heat). On these occasions, the only things that identify me as a surveyor is my truck and equipment.

 

I have one hard hat, (a few actually) but I've only needed it on one project in the past six years because it was required. I had to get a new one for the project because my old one was just that - 'too old' per the job/OSHA specs. The project was on an abandoned spill field in a working oil field. Not long after the job began, the job supervisors realized that the tallest things on the site were the waist-high Star Thistle, and that I had a much better chance of stepping on a Rattle Snake than having something fall on my head. The hard hat requirement became quite relaxed and I haven't used it since. (I was, however, on my own with the snakes.)

 

As far as the gender thing: It's true that surveying is profession practiced primarily by men, but there are quite a few practicing women surveyors. I am an active member of the San Joaquin Valley Chapter of the California Land Surveyor's Association and we have a number of women on our roster. In fact, three of our seven 2006 Chapter Officers are women. Two other State Chapters have a majority of women as Officers, and last year (if I remember correctly) one of the chapters had all five 2005 Offices (Pres., V.P., Sec., Treas., & State Rep.) chaired by women. There may not be many women surveyors, but they certainly have a presence in the local trade organizations and associations, and I’m sure the profession is better for it.

 

- Kewaneh

Edited by Kewaneh & Shark

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Apparently, as in KU1433, if there are multiple log entries between database updates, they all get updated?

 

I have noticed that if the datasheet has been updated within the past year and the condition stays the same, it prohibits you from entering another log entry.

 

......interesting.

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Stripemark wrote:

 

I have noticed that if the datasheet has been updated within the past year and the condition stays the same, it prohibits you from entering another log entry.

 

Interesting! Can you share with us at what point the program rejects the entry?

 

Does anyone know this is something new? It would be a good thing. Last year, I made some recoveries a few weeks after the USPSQD recovered the marks, but prior to the updates being published. Everything went through. This may have been because my recovery reports are more detailed. But the condition was the same. It occurred to me at the time that some kind of checking program would be valuable.

 

-Paul-

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Paul,

I forget which step, but the recovery program stops you with an error message saying there was a recovery in the last year. I think it is when you first hit submit, but of course after you have spent 5 minutes entering everything! If you change the status of the mark, e.g. from Not Found to Found, you can enter the recovery.

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It's after the screen that you verify the designation. It will come up and say:

 

"This mark has been recovered within the past year without any change in status. Thank you for submitting this recovery but NGS is not entering recoveries for marks which have been recovered less than a year ago unless there has been a change in status or there is new descriptive text."

 

Although, you can add any text and it will then accept it.

 

Although in KU1433, it looks like both entries were good condition with no added text. So apparently the second log was entered before the first log was added to the the database.

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After all those recoveries, I finally found a benchmark being used when I went to check it. It is a popular place, BLUFF beside the Sgt Floyd monument on the Missouri River. There was a GPS antenna over it and a radio link to the roving receiver. I spoke to the surveyor who came to pick up the gear about the time we were leaving, but didn't get to chat long because someone else wanted to ask him directions around town.

f2f3d21d-5fb5-4fa0-b92b-08a8c140052e.jpg

Edited by Bill93

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Although in KU1433, it looks like both entries were good condition with no added text. So apparently the second log was entered before the first log was added to the the database.

Yes, mine was the second entry, Harry's was the first. Before logging it, I checked the latest NGS datasheet and it was clear back to 1952, so I went ahead. Later when it got posted, I saw them both in there.

 

Actually Harry had made the recovery and posted it here on GC almost a year earlier but hadn't logged it on NGS, so I fiigured he wasn't going to. So just before I logged it, he changed his mind.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC

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....which gets me wondering.... for example.......

 

if 10 people were to log a recovery with the NGS for the same benchmark at the same time, all 10 recoveries would be on a future datasheet after the database is updated? .....interesting and weird

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I've run across this page. I think they're trying to keep multiple non-information recoveries. As long as you provide some text (presumably an update to the description), it will let you submit. I would be interested to see what procedure Deb Brown goes through when she gets a few.

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