Massachusetts Peculiarities

[+Shorelander]

Howdy again,

 

I've been perusing the last 10 pages of threads or so and I'm impressed with the amount of information you people have! I came across one thread about names of parts of bridges - is there one back there about figuring out the meaning behind the spray-painted symbols on the ground left by construction teams? (I figured out "DIGSAFE" all by myself, I think )

 

Also, I've been doing some work up in the Charlestown area of Boston. From a NGS standpoint, an area already well-covered by those more experienced that myself - but I was caching in the area and wanted to try to get some benchmark-seeking practice in. But I also printed out relevant state benchmarks from the MassHighway web site. My recovery rate was ridiculously low - I went 1 for 20.

 

But in hunting, I came across some questions for you folks. First off, I've been able to figure out (from previous threads and logs) what rivets, bolts, and the like are. But MAGS uses "e-Pins". Can anyone clue me in to those?

 

Also, does anyone here have experience working from MHD or other state databases? I ask because the MHD site has pretty much no information on when the mark was set or any subsequent recoveries. One mark references a street has not existed since 1995, and probably longer than that. I didn't spend too much time looking for Dawes, either. Any tips for this kind of recovery attempts?

 

Thanks!

SLer

 

Edit: Look at me! With all my longwindedness, I forgot to ask my original question.

So I went to the Navy Yard, and while I was there, found MY0588. While there I realize that there's another mark, MY3028, that should literally be right on top of it (we're talking <0.02 seconds off coordinate-wise). But I couldn't find it. None of the other people who came here found it either (maybe they didn't look for it? I don't know). But the Power Squadron allegedly found the latter. Did they get them mixed up? It sounds like it wouldn't be the first time they got one wrong...

Edited February 10, 2006 by Shorelander

[Bill93]

I think there is a serious probability they are the same disk, re-measured for vertical only in 1965 and given a new PID (if not 1965, then sometime between 1933 and 1965), and then remeasured horizontally in 1999. It is slightly unusual to find an unstamped disk, which certainly lends some confusion here. In this case, I think I can forgive the USPSQD for claiming both.

 

In someone's picture posted for MY0588 I see the old rail mentioned for MY3028 is still there. Did you measure the distances?

 

MY3028' 0.613 METER NORTHEASTERLY FROM THE EDGE OF THE DOCK

That would be 24 1/8 inches, if you don't have a metric rule.

MY3028''AND 0.530 METER SOUTHWESTERLY FROM THE NEAREST EDGE OF THE 'NEAREST RAIL

20 7/8 inches

 

Can one of the pros tell us whether the difference in positions is reasonable for one disk when comparing a 1926 third-order adjusted position, updated through the datum changes, versus a 'B' order GPS measurement ? I compute that from MY0588 to MY3028 is 0.0693 meter, or 2 3/4 inches NNE. That sounds believable for third order from what little I know.

[mloser]

e-pins are escutcheon pins. I clicked on the link where it said "Sketch Available Yes" and got this: http://www.mhd.state.ma.us/mhds/main.asp?A...HEET&MHDID=2273

[+Shorelander]

I really appreciate everyone's responses to my questions. I know I'm asking a ton, but I just want to make sure that I'm doing things in a sensible manner.

 

So two more questions.

 

1. I went to Bunker Hill (Breed's Hill, whatever) a few days back looking for, in part, MY2906. Per my description, I found RM1 (but not the mark). The last recovery (1984) states that they couldn't find RM1 - is it worth it to report the reference mark find? At some point I might go back and poke the ground a bit, but I'm not going to do any digging, as it is on NPS land and I doubt they'd like that very much.

 

2. Can you usually tell from the datasheet whether a mark should be "obvious"* or not? I ask because I'm trying to find MY2081. It sounds to me like it should just be there in the sidewalk over the bridge (being between the guard rail and the street center line). Am I reading it wrong, is it gone, and/or are things not usually as simple as that?

 

*How come I feel like this is going to get a resounding "no"?

 

Thanks once more,

 

SLer

 

PS:

mloser: Thanks for pointing that out to me. Just to be sure - you got the "sorry this is not available" screen? I did and then saw the word "eschuteon pin" right there - I wanted to make sure that I was somehow not getting the actual sketches while others were.

 

Bill: I didn't measure any distances, but I'm probably going to be back there by month's end, and will do so then, if you think that'd be worthwhile.

Edited February 10, 2006 by Shorelander

[+Harry Dolphin]

2. Can you usually tell from the datasheet whether a mark should be "obvious"* or not? I ask because I'm trying to find MY2081. It sounds to me like it should just be there in the sidewalk over the bridge (being between the guard rail and the street center line). Am I reading it wrong, is it gone, and/or are things not usually as simple as that?

 

*How come I feel like this is going to get a resounding "no"?

 

I would expect that one to be obvious, if still there. Has the sidewlk been rebuilt since 1978? Was I-90 there in 1978? Is there a metal stem sticking out of the sidewalk? Sidewalks are not the best places for benchmarks. They tend to be rebuilt over the years.

[+Shorelander]

2. Can you usually tell from the datasheet whether a mark should be "obvious"* or not? I ask because I'm trying to find MY2081. It sounds to me like it should just be there in the sidewalk over the bridge (being between the guard rail and the street center line). Am I reading it wrong, is it gone, and/or are things not usually as simple as that?

 

*How come I feel like this is going to get a resounding "no"?

 

I would expect that one to be obvious, if still there. Has the sidewlk been rebuilt since 1978? Was I-90 there in 1978? Is there a metal stem sticking out of the sidewalk? Sidewalks are not the best places for benchmarks. They tend to be rebuilt over the years.

That was my guess. The interstate's been here for many years, but the sidewalk has probably been replaced. I personally don't know the history of the area (I'm a graduate student), but it's about 200 feet from Fenway, so I'm guessing it sees its fair share of maintenance.

[holograph]

Make sure you check out all four corners of the bridge, and look on both sides of the guard rail. Sometimes a direction gets transposed in the description. If the mark is not there, you should be able to recognize that something was modified on the bridge, such as relocation of the guard rail, resurfacing of the roadway, repair of the concrete, etc.

[mloser]

1. I would prod, and maybe even dig for it. To me it takes nerve to report a mark not found as was done previously and then state clearly that you did not dig for it. No wonder it wasn't found!

 

2. Yes, my thinking would be that it would be somewhere between the guardrail and the road, most likely on the sidewalk. And pretty obvious. But you never know until you get there.

 

And in answer to your question to me, No, I didn't see a sketch, but noticed that the description mentioned an escutcheon pin. Too bad the block stating that the sketch wasn't available covered up part of the sheet.

[+GeckoGeek]

Sidewalks are not the best places for benchmarks. They tend to be rebuilt over the years.

A number of marks in my area ended up in the section of sidewalk rebuilt to put in ADA ramps.

[+NorStar]

I was one of those who had been in Charlestown looking for marks and can attest that this section was also where I had the lowest recovery rate (I think my average was 1 in 7). It shows how much things can change. It didn't help that some of the coordinates were simply off by up to a couple hundred feet. One of the piers (5, I think) is now completely fenced off and probably will be built on in a short while, threatening more disks. Then there are the ones that are preserved but under a rectangular cover. Did you get the 'evil eye' from the parking attendant on Pier 11 (the pier near the Mystic River)? Still, it was well worth going through there as it led me through the part of the old Naval Shipyard that is not part of the National Park. I have found that recovery rates around piers are pretty low - you either can't access them (private property) or the piers have been modified or destroyed. But, I have found some on piers. Anyway, enough about my tales.

 

MY3028/MY0588 - I had come to the conclusion that this was a double designation and logged where everyone else logged. The descriptions are slightly different, but there isn't enough to really tell if there they are separate disks. It is not likely that they replaced stones here, and I didn't see any stems in the vicinity.

 

escutcheon pins - I googled the name and got what I thought they were - small brass nails. I get that 'the sketch you requested is currently not available' page all the time. I haven't broken down to pay for one, yet. I think that page is the standard one you get no matter what you request, so it was a stroke of luck that escutcheon pin was on it. My feeling, too, is that more information could be filled in for each mark entered.

 

MY2081 - On the way to the ball game one evening, I walked one side of the bridge looking for it, then the other. I didn't see anything "obvious" myself, and, since there were hoards of people, I would not only have looked strange inspecting the bridge, but probably would eventually have been knocked over and trampled. So, fair to say, I didn't have a thorough look, but suspect that it is lost. There are several bridges that predate the turnpike (the 'extension' was built in the early sixties, I believe), that have been modified and the marks were not visible. They must either be buried/hidden or lost.

[+Shorelander]

One of the piers (5, I think) is now completely fenced off and probably will be built on in a short while, threatening more disks. Then there are the ones that are preserved but under a rectangular cover. Did you get the 'evil eye' from the parking attendant on Pier 11 (the pier near the Mystic River)? Still, it was well worth going through there as it led me through the part of the old Naval Shipyard that is not part of the National Park.

Hey! I got all excited when I saw you responded, because I've followed your descriptions several times. Thank you!

 

Just a few things about Charlestown - Pier 5 is still fenced off, but untouched. But Pier 11 is no longer a parking lot as far as I saw - it was fenced off with more vigor and Turner Construction signs. I didn't go too far down there because of that. But yes, I agree, the area down there was really interesting - all the old buildings!

MY2081 - On the way to the ball game one evening, I walked one side of the bridge looking for it, then the other. I didn't see anything "obvious" myself, and, since there were hoards of people, I would not only have looked strange inspecting the bridge, but probably would eventually have been knocked over and trampled. So, fair to say, I didn't have a thorough look, but suspect that it is lost.

Well, this is the mark that is closest to my apartment, so I'll be checking it out again once the snow clears. We'll see.