Ifinder Go2 Undocumented Feature

[daytrek]

here is the pinout to hook up a ifinder h2o to a pc to drive a routing map software

http://tk.files.storage.msn.com/x1pyOKpfgD...szg9fJeQSfKJEek

Edited March 10, 2006 by daytrek

[casioqv]

Here is a link to a USB cable that works for the iFinder go for $30:

 

http://pc-mobile.net/usgm.htm

 

You want to buy "USGMGL". I purchased this and it works excellent in MacOSX and Windows 2000 using the drivers that are linked to on the site. The build quality is a bit low, but it works very well and includes a power supply to power the GPS from the USB port. Shipping took about 1.5 weeks from Hong Kong.

[PeterGo2]

casioqv, thanks for the info.

 

The description for USGMGL is "USGM + GUGL". USGM is described as "USB>Serial module" and GUGL is "GPS Interface cable for Lowrance iFinder, iFinder Pro/Go - with built in voltage regulator (3.3v)". But the interface cable itself appears to be iFinder Go style on one end and USB type A mini on the other. So why is the "USB>Serial module" even necessary?

 

Edited to clarify my confusion <g>:

 

This picture of USGM shows what appears to be a USB type A mini on one end, and on the other end a (proprietary?) connector for plugging into their CK203 "Car USB adapter". After plugging the GUGL into the USGM, where/how would I plug the USGM into my computer?

 

Edited March 19, 2006 by PeterGo2

[+budd-rdc]

I want to thank the contributors to this thread on the iFinder GO's undocumented feature. I just got one today, and got the "hack" to work the first time, using Hyperterminal and sending a waypoint file at 4800, 8,N,1. I changed the System Setup to accept 9600 baud NMEA sentences, and that worked fine, too for 250 eight character waypoints with default 0ms delay. Direct writes to the COM port at 9600 baud also worked, using a small utility I wrote to test it out.

 

FYI: unit's firmware is Version 1.3.0, Build: JR210C

[+demhackbardt]

I wanted to thank you all for the info on making this work. I've built a cable and now have been downloading caches to our iFinder Go for a couple weeks now. It's sooooo much better than putting them in by hand. Now if I could just speed up the iFinder

[robertlipe]

I'm still not going to offiically support them in GPSBabel (the manufacturer doesn't, why would I?) but here's a little tease for a yet unscheduled future version that may help. This will be in the doc for that version, but since experience has shown that few will reads it and this will be in an avalance of info, I'll highlight it here.

 

From the conflicting info here, it's not entirely clear even now if a line delay is really required for these models, but GPSBabel will [ now, if built form source | soon, in an official release ] support a suboption of 'pause' that will take a fractional number of seconds to wait between each sentence group.

 

So if a 200Ms delay floats your boat, the following command will spray them to COM3 with a delay between each one:

 

gpsbabel -i gpx -f yourpq -o nmea,pause=.2 -F com3:

 

Obviously, you can adjust the delay to taste.

 

This was added to the NMEA writer for a different reason and was almost "free" for this case, so I went ahead and tossed it in. It'll work on any OS that GPSBabel supports, but is bound by the resolution of the available system timers.

 

No, I don't have a release date on it. This is just an early hint that it'll soon be a little easier for you rebels. Just watch for the next one.

[+user13371]

...you can adjust the delay to taste.

This is cool, and may be useful for more than the iFinder Go/Go2 series. As you mention, I'm not even sure the Go really needs a pause - I think people who have had trouble getting it to work would have succeeded just by adjusting the baud rate down, and making sure the sender was using the right line endings. Um, is that CR/LF or just CR/LF?

[robertlipe]

...you can adjust the delay to taste.

This is cool, and may be useful for more than the iFinder Go/Go2 series.

Ron needed the basic plumbing for his "read a track and output the NMEA on the serial port for simulation" work, so adding the extra wire over here was pretty cheap.

As you mention, I'm not even sure the Go really needs a pause -

There can be good money in selling placebos sometimes. :-)

 

Seriously, there's so much contradictory info in this thread that I don't know what Go really needs or what exaplains the observed differences. I just offered it in the hopes that it helps

[+budd-rdc]

...you can adjust the delay to taste.

This is cool, and may be useful for more than the iFinder Go/Go2 series.

Ron needed the basic plumbing for his "read a track and output the NMEA on the serial port for simulation" work, so adding the extra wire over here was pretty cheap.

As you mention, I'm not even sure the Go really needs a pause -

There can be good money in selling placebos sometimes. :-)

 

Seriously, there's so much contradictory info in this thread that I don't know what Go really needs or what exaplains the observed differences. I just offered it in the hopes that it helps

I appreciate your unofficial support. From my testing so far, no line delay is necessary, even at 9600 baud. My iFinder GO supports non-spec NMEA serial port baud rate of 9600 and 19200, although I haven't tried the latter since there's no handshaking involved. I simply streamed my NMEA output to COMn: and it worked fine.

 

And NMEA specs require CR/LF (or \r\n), as lee_rimar said.

[PeterGo2]

budd-rdc, that has been my experience as well with my Go2. No line delays needed - just make sure the sending app also sends the correct <CR><LF> line endings.

 

In another thread on this forum I promised I would post the results of my questions to Lowrance tech support regarding NMEA Input support for the iFinder product line. I may as well post those results here. I won't quote Lowrance verbatim as they may have some prohibition against that, but here's the gist of our e-mail exchange:

 

Me: Can you tell me exactly which sentence identifiers are supported for NMEA Input on the iFinder Go and Go2?

 

Lowrance: PC-DI5 (99-74) is a data transfer cable with an iFINDER connector and a DB-9 serial connector on the other end.

 

Me: Thanks, but I already have that cable... I've already figured out that my iFINDER supports the "WPL" sentence. Are there any other NMEA 0183 sentences supported for input? Is iFINDER NMEA Input documented anywhere?

 

Lowrance: The available NMEA sentence strings are GLL, RMC and RMB, APB, GGA, GSA and GSV, as found under NMEA Setup.

 

Me: Those sentence IDs do not appear to apply to what can be sent *to* the iFINDER. In fact, most of those particular identifiers don't make sense in relation to input, as they contain location data that a GPS receiver would send, not receive.

 

Lowrance: The iFINDER Go and Go2 will not accept NMEA input, even though that selection is on that menu.

 

At this point I gave up on e-mail and called tech support. After speaking to someone who appeared to understand my question, I was put on hold for a few minutes while the rep apparently talked to an engineer (but maybe it was just a supervisor). When the rep took me off hold he informed me that NMEA Input is a feature that was incorporated into pre-production firmware and should have been removed from the production firmware, and that NMEA Input was officially "not supported"(!) Of course that didn't sound right to me, but I had already spent enough time pursuing a sensible answer to this question and wasn't going to push this any further.

 

The fact of the matter is that NMEA Input is available in all iFinder models and is mentioned (albeit poorly explained) in all the product manuals for these models. If Lowrance really had no (initial) intention of supporting NMEA Input then why do they still they mention the feature in the manuals? And why haven't they removed the feature from the firmware of those iFinder models that support firmware updates?

 

It's possible that the firmware designers added WPL input support simply because it's available as a feature of the SiRF chipset and relatively easy to implement. In fact, even if the feature was not available in the interface, it might still be possible to enable it via the SiRF Binary Protocol. Unfortunately, it's hard to tell if Lowrance is protecting market share for their more expensive models, or if they really just don't understand how their equipment works. At least we were able to figure it out for them.

[+budd-rdc]

FYI:

 

I tried downloading 400+ waypoints to my iFinder GO at 38400 and 19200 bauds, and they seem to work fine, even without any sort of handshaking. There's even an option for 57600 and 115200 bauds, too.

 

I'm very curious if the "NMEA port" has other undocumented features like firmware updates, track log downloads, etc. At high baud rates, these would be quite functional.

[+HaLiJuSaPa]

 

At this point I gave up on e-mail and called tech support. After speaking to someone who appeared to understand my question, I was put on hold for a few minutes while the rep apparently talked to an engineer (but maybe it was just a supervisor). When the rep took me off hold he informed me that NMEA Input is a feature that was incorporated into pre-production firmware and should have been removed from the production firmware, and that NMEA Input was officially "not supported"(!) Of course that didn't sound right to me, but I had already spent enough time pursuing a sensible answer to this question and wasn't going to push this any further.

 

 

And of course, why have the port for putting the cable in on the unit in the first place? "Closing" it would make the unit more waterproof

 

Does anyone know what kind of SiRF chip the unit uses? My guess is that it's a II and not a III. I get decent indoor reception on my GO, but not the kind you get with a SiRF III unit.

[PeterGo2]

I tried downloading 400+ waypoints to my iFinder GO at 38400 and 19200 bauds, and they seem to work fine, even without any sort of handshaking.

You wouldn't want to use any handshaking. The limited pinout doesn't support hardware handshaking, and the NMEA protocol doesn't require it anyway. Just include <CR><LF> at the end of each line per the protocol. This perfoms essentially the same function as XON/OFF software handshaking.

 

I'm very curious if the "NMEA port" has other undocumented features like firmware updates, track log downloads, etc. At high baud rates, these would be quite functional.

Track and Route uploads (via the RTE identifier) don't seem to work, but let us know if you can make this happen. At the least, you can name your waypoints in sequential order, bulk upload them via gpsbabel or HyperTerminal, and then stitch them into a route fairly quickly via the iFinder GUI.

 

I have a copy of the SiRF Binary Protocol PDF manual which shows a vendor-specific NMEA sentence to switch the port to SiRF Binary protocol, after which there are specific SiRF Binary codes available for flash updates, etc.

[PeterGo2]

Does anyone know what kind of SiRF chip the unit uses? My guess is that it's a II and not a III. I get decent indoor reception on my GO, but not the kind you get with a SiRF III unit.

I did a search on Google for SiRF "iFinder Go" and most of the returned results indicate SiRF Star III for this model (I think the original iFinder was SiRF IIe). I have a table for Lowrance GPS model <-> SiRF chipset somewhere that I'll try to dig up.

[+stepshep]

So if I hook this cable to my iFinder GO and then hook it to my computer I should be able to transfer Waypoints to my GPS with EasyGPS (my waypoint software which carries Lowrance iFinder GO) And hit send and it sould appear on the GPS? I just want to make sure it's not too difficult I'm only 13 and the #mumbojumbo confused me. Also I'm how you say broke, hey what do you expect out of a kid? So I didn't want to waste the money if I didn't have to. Thanks in advance.

[PeterGo2]

That part number is the same as what Lowrance tech support quoted me, but I can't tell from the picture if it really has the correct connector for the Go series. You should probably verify with the vendor that you can return it if it's not the correct item.

 

If you're handy with a soldering iron you could try building a cable yourself per posts #6 and #10 of this thread.

 

I don't know much about EasyGPS, as it's been several months since I looked at this. Whatever software you use needs to be able to send NMEA WPL sentences with the required <CR><LF> line endings. You could always use HyperTerminal (free with Windows) or gpsbabel (free also).

Edited June 21, 2006 by PeterGo2

[+stepshep]

Ok, thanks.

[+budd-rdc]

Newest version of EasyGPS does list iFinder GO and GO2 in the list of GPSr's. Don't know if anyone here has tried it yet, so you might be the first one in this thread to do so. Let us know how it works.

 

As for the cable, that seems to be the correct one, but I'm not 100% sure since I made my own cable based on the information on this thread. You might consider doing the same to save $ and learn something, especially if anyone in your family has an expired ATM/credit card and an old serial mouse.

[+stepshep]

I don't think I want to chance screwing the GPS up. I'll just buy the cable if I fell it nessacery to. Thanks for your input!

[etepperman]

Hi,

 

Has anyone figured out if you can dowload a waypoint from the Ifinder Go/Go2 to the PC.

 

Thanks to the kind people in this thread I see how one could upload waypoint, but not the reverse.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks,

E

[PeterGo2]

There seems to be no way to download a particular waypoint. But if you enable NMEA Output and choose an appropriate identifier (say GLL) then the iFinder will broadcast that info every second. GLL would give you all you need to use the iFinder as a GPS Receiver (e.g. hooked up to a laptop with full-blown mapping software).

Edited July 12, 2006 by PeterGo2

[etepperman]

There seems to be no way to download a particular waypoint. But if you enable NMEA Output and choose an appropriate identifier (say GLL) then the iFinder will broadcast that info every second. GLL would give you all you need to use the iFinder as a GPS Receiver (e.g. hooked up to a laptop with full-blown mapping software).

 

This is great info. I am strarting to figure out how all this works. I got the GLL command working, do you know if the ifinder GO2 can support WPL output. It seems to work for input.

 

Can you suggest any good free map programs?

 

Thanks,

E

[PeterGo2]

AFAIK the only output sentences IDs supported are those listed in the iFinder GUI; and the only input sentence available (but not officially "supported") is WPL.

 

Edited to add: As far as free map programs, I don't know much about that. I currently use TOPO! only because that was the first one I found (purchased at REI). It's convenient for a beginner but I wouldn't recommend it as it stores data internally using the "North America 1927 mean" datum, and converts to WGS84 for display and output.

Edited July 12, 2006 by PeterGo2

[etepperman]

AFAIK the only output sentences IDs supported are those listed in the iFinder GUI; and the only input sentence available (but not officially "supported") is WPL.

 

Edited to add: As far as free map programs, I don't know much about that. I currently use TOPO! only because that was the first one I found (purchased at REI). It's convenient for a beginner but I wouldn't recommend it as it stores data internally using the "North America 1927 mean" datum, and converts to WGS84 for display and output.

 

Thanks. I guess I am out of luck for d/l waypoints off the unit. At least I can upload so that is somthing.

 

Best Regards,

E

[DanKetch]

Hello all,

 

Just bought an ifinder go2 today off of ebay, thought I would upgrade from my old Magellen 315. Didn't pay much attention to it at the time, I just assumed this would have pc connectivity (dolt!). After reading this thread, it appears that if I purchase the serial cable (not making one, I am bad with electronics) I can use a gps data utility that supports the Ifinder Go2, and import those waypoints into the gpsr without doing any rea "hacking" to the device except changing the NMEA settings to the correct ones? If anybody has done this please let me know, because I am a real dummy at computers and would prefer not to have to write code or anything like that.

 

Thanks

 

Mike

[PeterGo2]

Mike (Dan?),

 

GPSBabel includes native support for Magellan 315 models, as well as NMEA 2.0 support (for units like the iFinder Go). You'll have to be comfortable with a command-line, though. Something like this (for reading a Magellan route file, converting to NMEA sentences, and sending it to the iFinder on COM1) might work:

 

gpsbabel.exe -s -i magellan -f "MyMagellanFile" -o nmea,snlen=20 -F com1

 

(Peter)

[+budd-rdc]

I used gpsbabel v1.3.0 and the following command line worked on my iFinder GO:

 

gpsbabel.exe -i gpx -o nmea caches.gpx com1:

 

where caches.gpx is from your Pocket Query, and the iFinder GO2 is attached to COM1.

 

You might want to read the entire thread on how to configure the serial port. If this isn't done right, you'll have problems sending data. You'll also need to configure your iFinder GO2 to make sure NMEA input is enabled, and serial port settings (baud rate, data, stop, and parity) match.

 

This will be difficult if you are completely PC illiterate. Crude but effective way to do is to run HyperTerminal, set the serial port to the correct settings, close it, then run gpsbabel.

 

Maybe robertlipe can chime in on whether SetCommState() is called when the above command line is invoked?

[robertlipe]

You don't *have* to do it from a command line/batch file (though I would) the current GUI for GPSBabel on Windows should let you specify all the options needed.

 

SetCommState is not called in your example. You can do it in your batch file via the mode command.

[PeterGo2]

Yes, I forgot that the default COM port settings won't work with NMEA. I use this line in my batch file to reset the COM1:

 

mode com1 baud=4800 parity=n data=8 stop=1 xon=off odsr=off octs=off

 

This will make COM1 match the default settings on your iFinder (which defaults to the NMEA 0183 v2 standards).

 

HyperTerminal by default doesn't use the correct line endings for NMEA and I would avoid it; other wise you will have problems with bulk uploads.

 

I don't know if you can also configure COM settings via the GPSBabel GUI (as I've never used it).

 

(Peter)

Edited August 14, 2006 by PeterGo2

[harves]

Hi Guys,

Im am from Western Australia amd also have an ifinder GO2. I have been following this thread for about 6 months or so. The base map as you may already know is very basic but even worse when over Australia but about 2 weeks ago i came across a guy who also had one of these units. Although his unit was a bit older than mine , they were identical. That was until he showed me the base map. His had streets (not just major highways) displayed on the base map over Australia?? They had differnt firmware although i cannot recall what number. I thought i must have had the high detail turn off but it wasnt!. Any of you guys have an Idea??

 

Regards,

Harves

[PeterGo2]

His had streets (not just major highways) displayed on the base map over Australia?? They had differnt firmware although i cannot recall what number. I thought i must have had the high detail turn off but it wasnt!. Any of you guys have an Idea??

 

My firmware revision is like budd-rdc's : Version 1.3.0, Build: JR210C. This gives street-level detail here in the U.S., although most smaller streets are not named (not in my area at least). What version do you have over there?

[harves]

I will have to have a look when i get home, but zoom into western australia and you should find that there are no highways or streets marked, yet the other guys GO2 had street detail (with names) on towns with only 100 people living in it!!. This gives me reason to believe that maps can be uploaded to these units through the com port.

 

Cheers,

Harves

[+budd-rdc]

I will have to have a look when i get home, but zoom into western australia and you should find that there are no highways or streets marked, yet the other guys GO2 had street detail (with names) on towns with only 100 people living in it!!. This gives me reason to believe that maps can be uploaded to these units through the com port.

 

Cheers,

Harves

Since iFinder GO and GO2 support baud rates up to 115200 (and they work!), I agree with your belief. This might be what Lowrance tech support uses when the unit is being serviced? Without documentation or support information, I simply don't know.

 

I can tell you that running SiRF Demo through the serial port won't work, though!

 

FYI: to check your version number, [Menu] [Menu] [system Setup] [software Info...]

[+Airmapper]

Seeing as there is a way to send waypoints to a GO, would anyone be interested in writing a "How-to" Guide on the process. It would need to describe to a beginner the steps needed and software/ hardware required to set this up.

 

I am asking as I would like to publish such a how to article on my Lowrance Geocaching Guide website. I'll give credit to the author. To avoid any confusion later I ask it be well written and I will proofread it.

 

Anyone interested please contact me via E-mail, PM, or through my websites Forum board.

[DanKetch]

Thanks for the clarification guys. I did read the entire post, I just did not fully understand all the technical mumbo jumbo. I am not totally computer illiterate, but I am fairly close. Of course, this may change when I actually get the gps and cable from the dude on ebay. Appreciate the help.

[kg340]

Hallo PeterGo2,

 

ich schreibe aus Deutschland und besitze einen iFinder Go 2.

 

Meine Frage :

 

Ist es möglich über den NMEA Input/Output Standard 0183 Routen und Strecken über das Kabel PC-DI5 PC-Datenkabel mit 9-poligem Stecker :

http://www.lowrance.com/Accessories/...apte r+Cables

http://www.lei-extras.com/store/sear...apter+Ca bles

http://www.lei-extras.com/store/cart.asp

 

auf einen PC übertragen.

 

Hier gibt es weitere Informationen :

 

http://www.naviboard.de/vb/showthread.php?...highlight=kg340

 

Offizielle Antwort von Lowrance :

 

The iFinder GO2 has an NMEA 0183 output but this NMEA communication cannot be used to transfer GPS data such as routes, waypoints, icons, and trails to and from the GPS. This information can only be entered into the iFinder by had at this time. The NMEA 0183 is used to output GPS positioning information to another device.

 

Freundliche Grüße

kg340

[PeterGo2]

kg340,

 

Sorry, my German is very weak. You might want to try translating your message into English here:

 

Babel Fish Translation

 

And then edit for clarity's sake, and repost in English in this thread.

 

(PeterGo2)

[kg340]

Hello Peter,

 

my English is not good also....

 

Thank you for your fast answer.

 

I have only one question:

 

Is it possible transferred over the NMEA input/output standard 0183 routes and distances over the PC-DI5 PC data cable to a PC ?

 

Lowrance writes, no!

[PeterGo2]

Routes and distances, no. Individual waypoints, absolutely (regardless of what you may have heard ). Once uploaded, you can "stitch" your individual waypoints together into a route(s). Adding appropriate prefixes to your waypoints (e.g. 001<name>, 002<name>, etc.) before you upload them helps alot.

 

You can either make a cable or buy one. Enable NMEA Input in the iFinder Go2 GUI using the default settings. (Also, you should disable NMEA Output - unless you have the iFinder connected to another device for use as a GPS receiver.) Then use an appropriate program to upload (I like gpsbabel myself). With HyperTerminal, remember to set the correct line-endings (CR-LF).

 

This thread has a lot of useful info on the subject. Try reading carefully from the first post. Good luck.

[kg340]

Hello Peter,

 

I would not like to download only distances or routes, individual waypoints of the iFinder Go 2 on a PC.

 

Not of the PC on more iFinder.

 

Is that possible?

 

Friendly greetings

kg340

 

==============================

Hallo Peter,

 

ich möchte nur Strecken oder Routen, keine einzelnen Wegpunkte vom iFinder Go 2 auf einen PC herunterladen.

 

Nicht vom PC auf den iFinder.

 

Ist das möglich ?

 

Freundliche Grüße

kg340

[PeterGo2]

OK, sorry, you want to transfer from the iFinder Go to a PC (not the other way around)...

 

I don't think this can be done, as the NMEA Output sentence selections are limited and generaly only apply to what you would need when using the iFinder as a GPS receiver (for example, sending realtime position data to mapping software on a laptop).

 

FYI, I've also tried sending query sentences to the iFinder Go2 and it just ignores them. "Output" only broadcasts the selected sentence identifiers, and "Input" only accepts waypoints.

 

So if you want to download trail data from the iFinder Go to your PC, I think you're out of luck.

 

Hope this answers your question. Feel free to IM me instead if you still have questions.

Edited October 25, 2006 by PeterGo2

[kg340]

Thank you Peter.

 

Thus the topic for me is terminated.

 

Friendly greetings

kg340

[Stiller]

In spite of owning an iFinder GO², I never get this to work. Can someone please post a step-by-step tutorial, for technic-dummies, which starts with an gpx and an ifinder and ends with an succesful upload via selfmade-cable?

That would be really nice, cause i do not become any wiser reading this topic...

[+stepshep]

Okay so I bought the cable. After emailing Lowrance back and forth for two weeks I decided to buy it. Get it today and guess what...no luck. I then call the 1-800 number and talk to tech rep for upwards of 40 minutes. They finally decide I need to download Memory-Map and export the data with that. I go through the motions and: GPS timeout. Still no waypoints. Any help?

[+stepshep]

SUCCESS!! Now all I have to do is figure out how to stop the waypoints from popping up 3 times each on the screen. Big thanks to demhackbardt for all his help!

[Stiller]

hello guys, it's me again. i still havent got this to work properly... is nobody willing to post a nice tutorial here, that EVERYONE can understand? PLEASE!

[Stiller]

help please!!!

[+stepshep]

I put a how-to online. This method uses GPSBabel and GSAK.

 

Enjoy! http://www.geocities.com/stepsheppotter/ifinder.html

[+Eliveras]

I put a how-to online. This method uses GPSBabel and GSAK.

 

Enjoy! http://www.geocities.com/stepsheppotter/ifinder.html

 

Did not do it for quite some time, but if you have GSAK it should be even easier with a custom export (statement to run). I have looked up my settings:

"F:\Program Files\GSAK\GPSBabel.exe" -N -i gpx -o nmea,snlen=20 -f "F:\Program Files\GSAK\temp\babel.gpx" -F com5:

 

Maybe I was using some mode command to set serial speed for the com-Port, please try that out on your own.

[Stiller]

thank you very much stepshed. i am currently not at home, but will check this out as soon as possible.