Problem Downloading Benchmark Coordinates

[+dingermcduff]

I've noticed that when I want to download coordinates for caches, I can check the ones I want, then download a .loc file from them. However, when I try to do the same for benchmarks, the only option is to download ALL of the results, including ones that I've already found, are destroyed, or I just don't want to seek.

 

Any ideas?

[evenfall]

Dinger,

 

There are a number of ways to handle the database and data basing your own info. I am a surveyor type and do things sort of methodically, but that is the engineer in me. We repeatedly use methods that give us consistent results, but they do evolve and we do take advantages of technology if the benefits weigh out. I have a little theory I would like to share.

 

Approaching a search like you might a geocache is difficult to do with a Bench Mark Station. In Geocaching you are using the GPS from the very beginning to establish the Cache. So as long as the finder has their GPS set to the WGS 84 Datum, by rights with a clear view of the sky, a finder should be able to set a Go To on a GPS and walk right to that cache within say a 30 ft circle of accuracy or better. But you know that.

 

Coordinates for Bench Marks are well, in my thinking, not very useful. Not at first. They are really just a ballpark figure. The lion's share of Bench Marks in the field were monumented prior to 1986. 1986 was year one for the NAD 83 Datum, which is the National Standard today for the National Geodetic Survey. (it is the standard for most modern survey in the states, along with NAD 27) This superceded the NAD 27 Datum that was used to Monument many of these Marks. Those older Stations were calculated without the aid of computers and their locations, once determined, were scaled using an engineer’s scale ruler on a map to give the Station a Lat and Long for coordinates. So you have a Scaled Coordinate in NAD 27, which was then adjusted for NAD 83 Datum. ( In other words we change the way we see the shape of the earth. ) The hitch now becomes that NAD 27 and NAD 83 do not match, and formulaically, the difference to convert from one to the other changes based on where you are doing the converting, so there is no one formulaic computation to get there from here. We do not know exactly what the exact coordinates of many Bench Marks are so it is not fruitful to database them as such.

 

So you have a bunch of scaled and adjusted coordinates which are sometimes sort of ok and at other times way off. But they are rarely ever correct and really just can't be trusted. If you wade through the Forums here, you’ll see that many hunters have found the coordinates are all over the map. A Coordinate search that really worked is a nice thought but would have people dependant on it and out looking for something where it is really not at. At this time it is a methodology that would work poorly at best.

 

This is why the coordinates don't really work for me. I could get into the ballpark but I have ways of searching that work easier. Here on Geocaching, Searching by Zip Code works well for me. As a work around, I recommend creating a Favorite file in your Browser to save the PID's you are after, and either delete them or move them to a found file after you get them then you can see what you have. I create files for each PID and into them go the Webpage, the Photos, and the Word documents I am developing for Geocaching and NGS submittal. I move the files in a sub folder to the folder that best represents the current status the Station has for me. I could be working a pending file, or Geo Filing, or Not Found, Or Found Or, Or, Or.... The filing system only has to make sense to the end user.

 

In the field I do not use the GPS to find the station. I never have. In fact I like the challenge of putting the puzzle together. I bring a copy of the Description with me. I may re-read it several times to take it all in and look at the lay of the area now... All the usual things we do to find them. I use the back of the description to hand write my recovery and measurements. My notes. I take a NAD 83 GPS (Not any other Datum) fix of the station before I leave. So that the Database, once I update with my findings will have a better fix than it has ever had.

 

For alternatives, I suppose if I had a laptop I could take it along in the vehicle but then I would have to worry it’s security in some situations, and I do have a palm pilot but it just isn’t the right tool in the field for me. Makes a nice address book but I can’t write in it well enough and the typing aspects of a palm are a joke. In the field, too much battery power equals extra weight or space something more useful could take. I am carrying along enough crap as it is. Basics are really a good thing. I like Paper and Pen on the hunt. Besides, it is all part of the adventure.

 

In any case the database is full of Stations that do and don't exist, and all the maybes in between. That is why we are recovering them, and why many attempted recoveries remain attempts. There is a smaller percentage of certainty in Bench Mark Hunting than Caching, until you know for sure, which is part of the journey. The Geocachers have a database full of for-sure things. Unless the Cache has been pirated or archived, it should be there.

 

For those who like the executive summary; From the database point of view a cache is either active or not and found or not. A Bench Mark is a lot more things when it comes to a state of status, both before and after recovery. In the end, the Geocaching Database may not do what you want it to in an automatic or automated way. It may not ever be all and end all. A best fit databse... What a concept. It may be that you will have to create ways to collate the data in a way that works best for you. I think it is the nature of the database and what it has to do that keeps you from doing what you would like. As well as being a Database of older origin being used in a newer way. In the end, a print out of the PID web page is old school but it always works!

Edited September 12, 2004 by evenfall

[+Black Dog Trackers]

dingermcduff -

 

I have seen that problem a couple of times. There are supposed to be a checkbox next to each benchmark listing. Usually the problem resolves itself, and next time I try, the boxes come back. About 99% of the time, I have no problem - the checkbox column is there. Maybe a browser update is needed.