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Guest Quinnow

Pictures taken of another cache!

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Guest Quinnow

Hi all...I was just looking at a cache page thinking that I might give it a go in the near future, But when I got there I scrolled down to see how other people were doing in finding it. I saw several logged finds and one logged find had a website that I clicked on, inside was all the pictures of the cache as well as the area and the hiding place. This cache does not! belong to that person to take and add those pictures to his site. I have no problem with people adding them if permission is given, but I would hate it to heck if someone took pictures of my cache and then plastered them all over a personal website showing where I placed it. the cache is the "Toronto Brick Works" I looked for this persons e-mail to nicely mention this fact but none was listed. But anyways now that I know where the cache is the visit is no longer an adventure to me, thus I won't go to it. icon_frown.gif Get permission to post pictures, and if and when you do, don't forget that others have still not looked for that cache. Don't tell the ending of the movie to someone that hasn't seen it yet!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest cjdoyle

Why would someone need to get permission to post photos he/she took of a cache on public property onto their web site? That's insane!

 

If you didn't want to look at pictures, etc, why would you click on the web site link?

Especially when the logged entry says "I made an imagestation album of our adventure, if anyone wants check it out go to..."

 

If you are afraid of getting extra help from people, why read the logged entries at all?

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Guest Quinnow

you sure have a ton of "whys" in there.

That site was an example. actually this was mentioned and threaded before but I was unable to locate it, so I am not the only one that thought this to be a bad idea. I look at the reply list time to time just to make sure that someone else has been able to find it so that I don't drive 100 miles (like that one would be) to find that it has been moved, taken, or maybe a paper cup filled with marbles. I looked at his site because I thought what I was going to see was maybe pictures on the way to (not near) the cache and not the actual cache site. A picture of the cache wouldn't have even been bad, but it shows the whole area, and also shows near by landmarks. And what do you mean by saying "Why would someone need to get permission to post photos he/she took of a cache on public property onto their web site? That's insane!"?

does this mean that once you place a cache of your own that anyone can do with it as they please? So maybe you can plan a weekend out by scouting the perfect spot, making the cache, walking the distance to place it, return and add it to the site, THEN have someone say "hey I found it and it's right here"

the reply list was meant for people to let others know that they found the cache or that they didn't find the cache, it's also there to let people know what they thought of the area or the hunt itself. It is not there to give your own clue's to someone else's cache. The sad thing is that you see nothing wrong with that.

But I made this thread for opinions, after all, that was just my own and you know what they say about opinions!

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 04-16-2001).]

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Guest cjdoyle

his thread for opinions, after all, that was just my own and you know what they say about opinions!


 

I have two too.

 

[This message has been edited by cjdoyle (edited 04-16-2001).]

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Guest Quinnow

1- Streets and buildings are not Intentionally Hidden so that people can't find them without the help of a GPS.

 

2- I have seen tons of personal sites that have pictures of people out geocaching, but they do not show pictures that would give it away, so no, I did not expect to see pictures of the entire cache area (at least I had hoped and that was my downfall) though I had thought I might see a close up picture of maybe the cache itself and that would be fine.

 

3- To you the joy might be in the hunt itself, but its not much of a hunt if you know exactly where it is from pictures taken by someone else.

 

4- Though I also enjoy the hunt a great deal, I myself like to hunt for creative caches with a touch of mystery to them. Thus I would not drive 100 miles to look for a 1/2 cup tupperware container with a rubber band in it (thats an example) though I know of people that have no problem with that at all, and thats fine if they enjoy it.

 

To me someone taking and posting pictures, or even mentioning additional clues when logging a find on someones cache is a sign of disrespect to the one that made it. And I am sure that if you made up a poll and asked people if they wanted pictures of their cache locations and clue's plastered on the web for others to see, that they would decline on that.

Heck!...In the mailing list as well as one thread here there has been a long discussion on if it was good or bad to just add the coordinates of a parking lot near a cache. Pass this topic on the lists and see what gets said as soon as you mention that its ok to give out the location of the caches that are hidden. tell me, whats even the sense in placing coordinates if we are just going to show the placement anyways as soon as we find it.

The site I had mentioned was more-so an example than anything else, I have seen others that are far worse than that one in the picture area. so once I saw that I just wanted to mention it, I was never upset at the person who took the pictures, I am certain he was just excited about the sport and thats fine, I just wanted to reach him to let him know that others might not want those posted to give him food for thought.

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 04-16-2001).]

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Guest cache_ninja

well, i posted to the list, but people read here to, so here goess...

 

I think its kinda silly to post pictures of caches youve found on a personal web site, i can't understand why someone would do that, much less make a url describing the caches they've found, but i've never been one to toot my own horn(ack, trite sorry)...invariably, in reply to these assertions someone is going to mention my url, sure its wierd as hell but there is an idea behind it...

 

it does seem like people are going to do this(take pics) even if the people who hid the caches want them not to, which i think is rude. however, as long as when you visit their site, you aren't immediately seeing

the pics (after all, some of us do like to visit other peoples sites) and there are links to the pics, if you dont want to see, dont click it. much like the "hints" on the url etc..you cant control what people do, indeed i view caches much in the same way as cjdoyle up there, you put them out there and thats it, you relinquish control, they are public, there for people to enjoy and share, much like the property they sit on.

 

however, some of us do take a great deal of time figuring out good cache sites( i have 25 or so at the moment) and get excited about people venturing to them based on the clues we leave etc, and abou the prospect of them being surprised about some aspect of it. If I were someone who was really annoyed by people posting pics of all my caches, and they continued doing this in spite of me asking them to quit it, i would probably just stop hiding them in their area, and might remove the ones they've found out of spite, 'cause i'm like that. so in the end they would essentially be ruining the fun for everyone.

 

but seriously, if someone hides a cache and asks people who find it not to post pics of it, it would seem only proper not to do so, after all they went to all the trouble hiding it for you to have fun finding etc. do you really need to post a picture to like, further prove you were

there?(i.e. who cares anyway?)...

 

c/n

 

 

[This message has been edited by cache_ninja (edited 04-16-2001).]

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Guest LoCache

Hello all! I respect everyone's opinions on this topic though I do not agree with them. Which is really the point...dif'rent strokes for dif'rent folks!

 

While I respectfully disagree with those saying you shouldn't take pictures of the area if you want to, I do agree with Cache Ninja's idea that if someone stash's a cache and doesn't want pictures taken of it, they should say so in the cache page, and then common courtesy should mostly prevail.

 

However, if someone does or still wants to anyhow, they could use the method I am using for my own cache's that I am stashing. I am relatively new to this, and have just planted my first one, and I put a lot of thought in to it. I chose to recognize that there are different kinds of people out there, and thus put different levels of hints. On the Geocaching.com web site, I gave a fairly simple though long winded (sort of like this post) description, then directed them to my web site for more info. On my site you see the same info, and links to pages that give increasingly more detailed info. A person has to willingly choose to look at these hints which will eventually include photos. That way, each adult individual can decide how much information he or she wants. I personally like to have as much information as I possibly can, and then use only what I need. It's always better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.

 

As for cache's I find...I have (mostly) been taking pictures of the cache, and of scenes along the way. A clever soul could easily look at these (once I post them) and probably determine a route to the cache based on landmarks. This is not for the purpose of giving away the fun, but for showing people the beauty I saw while there. I will, of course, be making the photos in to a link with a warning on it so that if someone doesn't want to see them they don't have to look!

 

With the two suggestions here, I think that pretty much covers all the bases.

 

IMHO,

Geo

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Guest LoCache

an.net/geotrex

 

if you want to see my example, check out the "Hidden" section of the site.

 

Geo

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Guest cache_ninja

good idea and nice site, especially like the navigation window hehe!

 

being that some caches are in interesting and/or scenic places, it would be really neat if people tried to take pictures of surrounding area views and such, this might potentially motivate some people who were unsure if they were going to bother to go look for it etc. and well, encourage some nice photography...

 

c/n

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Guest k4lyp

I'll tell you what Quinnow, I will post pictures of what ever I want. There is no copyrights on a hidden cache! I think it's silly to think that people won't take pictures and post them on their web sites. This hobby is busting wide open and most people who do it are internet, GPS, digital camera, ownrers/users. What makes you think you have any rights as to pictures? You invite people to come and find it then you say no picture postings? Sounds like our Government.

 

[This message has been edited by k4lyp (edited 02 May 2001).]

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Guest brucebridges

I've been involved with movie Forums for a long time and the best way we've found to openly discuss movies in depth without ruining anybody's enjoyment is to put "SPOILER!" in front of anything that somebody who hasn't seen a movie may want to avoid.

 

It really isn't about what one can or can't do with pictures but really how people can post pictures or information while making a small effort to keep from spoiling the experience for others.

 

Does that make sense?

 

bb

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Guest WrongWay

Quinn,

 

While I understand your argument that it is bad etiquette to log "spoilers" to a cache e-log, I fail to see any validity in your argument that allows you to dictate what another person may or may not post on their private web site.

 

Can you please clarify your point by stating what gives you authority over another's intellectual property ?

 

Not trying to start a fight, but rather trying to understand your opinion.

 

regards,

 

Jim

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Guest Silver

This topic is currently being discussed in the Taking/Publishing Photos of Someone Else's Cache? topic. Rather than rehash the covered issues here, how about we continue to post on that thread and let this one filter back down.

 

Trying to post to both threads gets confusing. And don't worry, the topic will come up AGAIN in a couple of weeks. icon_smile.gif

 

Silver

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Guest Ron Streeter

Silver....

 

As Quinn would say...

 

AAAAYYYYY...Men Brother !

 

And thanks to all others who are supporting the idea that for the most part, cachers have a right to do what they want in the picture taking department (and publishing pictures)

 

I for one contend that most people use good sense and we should all be able to decide IF we want to look at published pics (and clues) or to NOT look at them.

 

Additionally, as i noted in the other forum, we are starting to just beat this thing to death.

 

Let people make up their own minds !

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Guest bacpac

Bickering is a good thing. I personally enjoy it if concerns something I am passionate about.

 

I have become good friends with people simply because we both loved to argue and test each others verbal and intellectual skills. We may never agree on anything, but at least we can talk about it. Sometimes it gets petty, but that is when you can claim the upper hand! LOL

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Guest Quinnow

t to do with their own property at all, so if I did it must have been a typo. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 02 May 2001).]

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 02 May 2001).]

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

What you should see is my point of view as to what "I" feel is right and wrong.


 

Telling others that you feel their point of view is "wrong", which is what I infer from your comments on this issue, tends to get people's defenses up. Better if you had just said your personal preference is that people not publish spoilers, but you understand and respect their valid reasons for doing so.

 

I'm afraid we're in an impossible situation.

 

Some people want the logs to serve like movie reviews, to decide if they should hunt this cache or not.

 

Others want the logs to serve like a bar where people gather after the movie to discuss what they all just saw.

 

The logs can't serve both functions. And as I don't believe a bunch of amateur geocachers will ever have the skills of professional movie reviewers, I hold out no hope of keeping spoilers out of the logs, no matter how much we lobby, beg, and scold. Besides, even if we could get everyone to censor what they write, we'd still lose the second function. Where CAN the successful hunters gather and talk about every gory detail without fear of spoiling it for others?

 

The best solution I see is that we encourage people to say what they want in the logs, and encourage hunters to exercise self restraint and not read the logs until after their hunt is over.

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Guest Quinnow

you quote me and I see the letter "I" included with that....not sure why I need to explain that due to I thought it explained itself, but the letter "I" means me, as in I, as in my idea, my opinions, my thoughts.

so sheeesh, once again I will ask where did I ever tell someone else that their opinions were wrong??

I only said that those were MY OPINIONS!!!!

I never said that everyone elses were wrong, I just said that I, as in me, as in my person thought it was wrong.

If you need me to explain further please let me know icon_smile.gif

 

so why would anyone ever get their defenses up over "my opinions"? doesn't everyone have one? icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest WrongWay

Quinn,

 

I've ready everthing everyone has posted on this and similar topics.

 

I'm not willing to argue over semantics or word choices or trade barbs back and forth. That is counter productive.

 

I am willing to state:

 

"I am opposed to anyone dictating what a person may or may not post on a private web site."

 

In a Yes or No response, can you make that same statement ?

 

If you answer No then by your own words, "No", you are "dictating" and extending "authority."

 

I'm not opposed to your or any others personal feelings. Personal feelings are very valid for the person experiencing them.

 

I am opposed to turning personal feelings into policy.

 

Again, no fight intended.

 

regards,

 

Jim

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Guest Ron Streeter

Now George, don't get your dander up. Remember what the doctor said about your high blood pressure.

 

I am going to take a day or so out of this "discussion" to put together what I hope will be my last participation in this thread.

 

I feel there have been some excellent responses to your points --- not from me, but others ----- yet you seem not to bear much witness to their thoughts. It is true you did make a concession to one person.

 

Anyway, I'll be back with a response in a couple of days. I have some geocaching to do in the meantime.

 

regards from ......the 'mighty' Ron

(thanks George, that has a nice ring to it!)

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Guest Quinnow

Jim I am doing my best not to laugh here but you are making it tough. I think for the most part I always use the word "I" so of course that would mean my own personal views or anything for that matter.

So if you knew that , what is your point?

By the way I wasn't going back and forth...you asked a question and I didn't realize you did not want it answered. So please on your next one let me know if I am to just let it go by.

 

and I am friendly icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

By the way...here is what dictating means because you seem to have it confused with what I have said

 

2 a : to issue as an order b : to impose, pronounce, or specify authoritatively c : to require or determine necessarily

 

I never ordered anyone not to do anything.

I have no authority to force anyone to do anything

and I did not require anyone to do anything.

 

I never dictated anything at all so where did you come up with this word?

 

Just because I said that it should not be done, does not in any way at all mean I am ordering people not to do it. I gave my thoughts on how I would go about it and that was it. You just read it the way you wanted to. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 02 May 2001).]

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Guest Ron Streeter

George...

 

Go to bed ! Unless my math is wrong, it's almost 2 a.m. on the east coast !

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Guest Quinnow

Ron,

 

Dander wasn't up, that was just wishful thinking on your part. or just the usual inability to understand threads and comments. have fun caching. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

your math is wrong, it's 1am and I am on call, thus the reason I am up.

I am not surprised you got the time wrong though, you seem to have everything else wrong. icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Ron Streeter

Now George.....you know you should email me with such off-thread comments. (of course that's just my humble opinion)and that's what I just did to you, wishing you a good (on-call) night.

 

Ron

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Guest Quinnow

lol...ok

 

G' night!

by the way, I enjoy the tifts, they make me smile icon_smile.gif

 

and so that this is kept on thread I am still certain I was right all along icon_biggrin.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest WrongWay

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

You just read it the way you wanted to.


 

Not at all Quinn. I read exactly the words you wrote, and you have not answered the questions I posted. By your supplied definition, your "should ASK" post in the Taking/Publishing Photos of Someone Else's Cache? discussion is dictating.

 

You also make me laugh...and give me a headache...this is starting to remind me of the Clinton Impeachment testimony...

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Guest Quinnow

no you gave yourself the headache. But I can see why, you seem to have a hard time understanding things.

 

"should ask"...key word "SHOULD"

 

Now if I were to say "you WILL ask" that would be dictating.

 

and I can't answer that question with a yes or no answer due to it makes no sense at all.

You must be a lawyer looking to head someone into a corner.

Take two asperins and call yourself in the morning icon_smile.gif

so i'll let this thread stop where it is before you have to scroll a country mile to get to the end of it, and you feel free to go ahead and put words into others mouths and i'll leave it at that.

 

Not wishing to fight icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

I only said that those were MY OPINIONS!!!! I never said that everyone elses were wrong, I just said that I, as in me, as in my person thought it was wrong.


 

That's a distinction without a difference. It goes without saying that everyone's comments on this board are opinion (what else could they be?). And my opinion is that your opinion about what's "right" and "wrong" is out of line.

 

Geocaching is immature. If you want it to thrive, you will need to give it room to grow. That means allowing people to try things and do things that may not conform to the practices of the early geocachers. None of these practices are "right" or "wrong." They are just different ways to enjoy this new recreation.

 

We should encourage people to say what they want in the logs. Enthusiastic discussion of their experience should be celebrated, not scolded. There's no other forum for successful hunters to discuss all the gory details of the hunt with each other.

 

We should also encourage hunters to exercise self restraint and not read the logs until after their hunt is over. That is, unless they don't mind being exposed to spoilers, which are inevitable in the logs, no matter how much we lobby, beg and scold people.

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

Now if I were to say "you WILL ask" that would be dictating.


 

In your opening post in this thread, you said, "Get permission to post pictures, and if and when you do, don't forget that others have still not looked for that cache. Don't tell the ending of the movie to someone that hasn't seen it yet!"

 

Three directives in two sentences. No "shoulds" or "in my opinions", just do's and don'ts. Sounds to me, using your definition, that you were dictating.

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Guest Quinnow

you think it is out of line well god bless ya! Thats America icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

 

[This message has been edited by Quinnow (edited 03 May 2001).]

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Guest WrongWay

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

But I can see why, you seem to have a hard time understanding things.


 

No, not at all, I understand exactly what your opinion is as you wrote.

 

I asked for clarification because I could not believe that you would suggest ("should ASK", "Get permission to post pictures...") what is appropriate for another person to post on their private web site.

 

I am not a lawyer, you insult both lawyers and me in making that comparison.

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Guest Quinnow

ahhh...now we are getting somewhere, that word works great! "suggest" and yes I do suggest ( my opinion mind you) that people do this. You are right, the websites belong to the people that make them, but I feel the caches belong to the people that make those.

so if you were to take one that some would prefer to be left as an adventure and posted pictures of it on a site, then you are taking what it was intended for and making less of it to some (not all) so I threw this out there for people to bite on and feed back, but instead of feedback on the topic (as in giving your own opinion) the feed back was on my personal views and why I feel that way. It doesnt matter how I feel about it, it matters how you feel about it. I was just looking for diff sides of the coin.

 

I didnt understand the lawyer bit, did you mean I insult lawyers when comparing them to you? hoof! thats bad! icon_smile.gif

but anyways, you seem to be getting frustrated and I am getting hand cramps doing my best to explain something to you that just isn't working. and you didn't understand what I meant because if you did then there would have been no problem. But if you feel you know my thoughts more than I do and you speak for me then have at it, at least then you can argue with yourself icon_wink.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

Ok guys,

 

I see we all think that it is fun to bicker back and forth at each other(maybe me more than others) butlets get this straight once and for all. I am not upset, and I would hope that none of you would be upset either as a result of this thread or anything that has to do with geocaching. It's a great sport and I can honestly say i have nevr met a Geocacher that I didn't like (though I have never met one yet)so lets just have fun, find caches and sign Log Books!

The last thing I need is one of you guys waiting for me to show up at a hidden cache with one of those Giant super soaker squirt guns. I really do respect each of your opinions and thoughts (even Rons which I am certain is a great guy with a good sense of humor) and I have read and took all of them in. So please don't take any of my humorous babble to heart as far as any additional comments that I have made, they were all meant to be harmless and I would never mean to upset or hurt anyones feelings.

By the way, I like lawyers...my brother is one! icon_smile.gif

 

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Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Scout

Quinnow, I do care about the thread. I think people should be able to say anything they want in the logs and be able to post anything they want on their web sites. I think that if other geocachers don't want their experience spoiled, they should be advised to exercise self-restraint and not look at the logs until after they find the cache on their own.

 

My posts have been mainly aimed at challenging your opinions to the contrary. Deflecting such criticism by saying it was just your opinion doesn't work. I think your command to "Get permission before posting pictures" is an example of an opinion that is out of line in this sport. That's MY opinion.

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Guest WrongWay

quote:
Originally posted by Quinnow:

but anyways, you seem to be getting frustrated

 

But if you feel you know my thoughts


 

Quinn,

 

Nope, not frustrated. Nowhere have I pretended to know your thoughts.

 

I've asked for clarification of what you wrote to help resolve the issue.

 

You've fail to provide clarification of your words.

 

You have provided insults and belittled my and others opinions which does nothing to resolve the issue.

 

I see by your last post that you are writing this off as all fun and games.

 

Fine with me.

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Guest Falco

ited by Falco (edited 03 May 2001).]

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by Falco:

I guess what both of you are saying is that he and others except you should not be able to speak freely here.


 

This is the exact opposite of what I've been saying. People should be allowed to post whatever they want, and that includes spoilers in the logs and photos of caches in their web sites. It's Quinnow who has advocated what should and should not be written in logs. Sure, it's only his opinion. It just so happens that I disagree with his opinion.

 

If he gets everyone to conform to his opinion, more power to him. My advice is aimed at what to do in the world as it is. And that's to not read the logs until after you successfully find the cache, unless you don't mind reading a spoiler or two. Once you have found the cache, the logs become much more interesting if everyone is free to write about details that just might spoil it for others.

 

That way, it's win-win for everyone. The new hunters enjoy the unspoiled experience (because they resisted reading the logs first). And the successful hunters get to talk about all the interesting details. And the cache hider gets feedback about all aspects of his cache, not just the ones safe to talk about without spoiling it. What could be better?

 

P.S. I see that your post, Falco, was your first. Welcome to the forums!

 

[This message has been edited by Scout (edited 03 May 2001).]

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Guest WrongWay

quote:
Originally posted by Falco:

I guess what both of you are saying is that he and others except you should not be able to speak freely here.


 

Falco-Quinn,

 

You guessed wrong, much to the contrary.

 

I believe people have the right to post what ever they want here and on their private web sites without requesting permission and without fear of being belittled, insulted or have their education questioned.

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Guest Quinnow

wrongway... I am not certain where I did, but if for some reason you feel that I belittled you or insulted you then I am sorry you feel that way. It was never my intention to come in here and make anyone feel uncomfortable. And when I make slight jokes or humorous remarks it is only to try and keep this from getting heated.

Scroll up to the very first post on this thread and you will see that this was done about three weeks ago. Then everything cools down and it was placed in the basement for storage, then you come in and wanted me to make clear what I had meant (which was very fine with me) But I had a huge problem with the word dictate and you asking me what right I had to do this.

Now if you would have asked me why my views are the way they are, I would have jumped to an answer for you with a smile, but I refused to admit that what I had said was a for of dictating. I have placed about eight caches ranging anywhere from 3 miles from my house right up to 110 miles away. And I feel that if I want peop[le to have a tough time, a hard time or an easy time finding it during a hunt, that it is my right as the cache maker, placer and owner. Maybe I would like to see how long it takes before someone actually finds it, and if they did I would know that they had one heck of a adventure in doing so and well earned the log on my cache page. But so lets say as an example you take pictures of my cache showing where it is and what it looks like and how to get there and place those pix on the website of yours for others to see, then you just dropped the level of the hunt from what I had intended it to be. So not so much ruining it for the people that want to hunt for it as much as for the people that place it. I realize that many people could care less if people take pix and post them. I myself could care less if someone did that for the cache just around the corner from me. But for the one I just placed over 100 miles from my front door I worked hard huffing it up a mountain (not to mention the drive) and took a couple hours finding that perfect spot to make it a tough cache to find. so yes, if pix of this cache showed up on a site and it enabled people to find it fast and easy just to say they found it, then I would be upset. That is why I think people should ask out of common courtesy if the cache maker would mind if pix were added to a personal site. If you made a cache and placed it in hiding and I plastered pix on a site, what would be the sense of hiding it in the first place when you could just put it in the open on a sidewalk or something?

Now remember, the Important thing here is that all of this is my opinion and nothing more. If others think otherwise and could care less then that is fine with me. If they dont care what happens to their own caches then I don't have a problem with it at all.

Now about those Insults... I took that comment about dictating as an Insult, was that your Intention or did maybe I just misunderstand what you put forth?

see what I am getting at?

I would much rather sit here among friends and enjoy the threads than repeat over and over post after post what I have said.

You have your views and I have mine, is that fair to say?

I'd e-mail you a handshake if I could icon_smile.gif

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest brucebridges

Wow, I can't remember when I've seen semantics so thoroughly dissected and clarified. And now I'm more confused than ever.

 

I read some say that no pictures should be posted and others say hunters should never read or view anything on a cache before finding it.

 

Isn't it an easy compromise to suggest people note before any pix or comments that they may be spoilers for a hunter? Doesn't that eliminate the concern of ruining the hunt without asking people to limit their comments or pix? Seems its an easy way for both sides to respect the other.

 

bb

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Guest Ron Streeter

s better.

 

This may be a lengthy post, as I want to make it my last contribution to this thread.

 

Perhaps I should start by (for the last time) indicating my feelings on posting finds at Geocaching.com and publishing notes and pictures on personal web sites. Perhaps if I make my feelings crystal clear, I will be able to bow out of this forum feeling that I at least made my position clear.

 

I believe that the find posts on Geocaching.com should include some comments by the finder that he/she found special about the cache hunt. This could include difficulties (or lack of difficulties) that were encountered. This kind of post would give future cache hunters some insight to the hunt.

 

Additionally, the find posters might include some general statement about things like parking difficulties, fees for parking, whether or not dogs are allowed, etc. These might be things that the cache placer failed to mention or did not come into play because the cache placer came in from a different direction, didn?t have a dog, etc. These would not be inappropriate to put in a find post.

 

There will be some cache finders who will get carried away and will post some note that the cache placer or an avid geocaching fan MIGHT find inappropriate. Fortunately, Jeremy has provided several ways the cache owner can handle these items (deleting a post, encrypting a post). This feature alone should take care of any ?clues? that the cache owner finds objectionable. People reading the find posts will of course have to be quick to avert their eyes if they read an unencrypted post that suddenly ?reveals? something they don?t want to see.

 

That (I think) takes care of my feelings about find posts at Geocaching.com. Now for my feelings about a person who has found a cache and refers future cache finders to his/her web page for a more extensive discussion of the cache.

 

A cache placed in a public space (such as a park, wilderness preserve, city street corner) may belong to the person who has placed it there, but by leaving it for anyone to find, the cache owner gives up certain rights. The cache owner cannot control who finds it or what they do with it. We lament the vandalizing of a cache. We lament the theft of a cache. We can also lament the extensive verbal descriptions or photographic images that a few people might include on their web pages.

 

What we CAN NOT do (in my humble opinion) is tell other people what to do in those regards. We can ?suggest? what we think is appropriate or inappropriate. We can tell what WE would do if we were going to publish a web page with trip dialogues and pictures. We can ?suggest? that the web page publisher ask the cache owner if it would be all right to publish some revealing pictures, but we certainly can?t demand this of the web page publisher.

 

In my opinion, George was setting himself up as the authority on what was allowable or not allowable in this regard. Though he has denied this in several of his posts, his first response to the Anton thread clearly states his position.

 

I believe that most cache hunters are responsible in regard to the placement of their caches and certainly they most often place them in such a way that they are challenging or easy depending on their intended audience. I for one let people know either through the ?star? rankings or through my cache notes if a cache is suitable for children for instance.

 

I also speak to the issue of web page publishers through personal experience. A person relatively new to the sport included in his find post that pictures could be seen at his web site. It was actually a close-up of a metal disk on a tree (tree 56) that he wanted to show people. I had no problem with that, but when I went to look at his picture, I discovered pics not only of that disk, but of another cache I had in that park (Apollo M1 A1) that inappropriately revealed a nice, broad picture of the downed tree where the cache was located.

 

Calmly and without invective I emailed him and let him know that this was more than I cared to have revealed. It turned out that simply through an error he had not limited access enough to his site. A few simple clicks and everything was all right. I doubt he would have argued with my request, and I?m not sure how I would have reacted had he not acquiesced to my request to take the picture out, but I do know I could not DEMAND this of him. If he had denied my request, I would have to have taken other action

 

That pretty much sums up my feelings at both levels. Being human I may have left something out, but I hope not as I do not want to come back to this thread to explain any further than this post.

 

Finally, I guess one of the things that upset me about this whole thread is this. The original thread by Quinnow was posted on April 16, 2001. It went on for a couple of weeks and then Anton started a new thread ?Taking/Publishing Photos of Someone Else'sCache? ? . The new thread was started on April 28, 2001.

 

You can go to the other thread to see his initial remarks, which included the statement:

?I think this was brought up once before, but since the sport is growing so fast, it needs to be mentioned again:

If you don't own the cache, it's not your right to photograph it, and to publish the photos on your homepage.

You CAN take photos of people on your geocaching adventure, of spots along the trail, etc. But you CAN'T shoot and publish photos of the cache site. That amounts to giving away clues, and that's not your choice to make.?

My feeling is it would have been a simple matter to simply have continued the other thread. Anton is a computer consultant/teacher and could (in my opinion) have found the thread as it was only two weeks old at that point.

 

My bad feelings about this new thread were further exacerbated when I saw the first person to respond to this new thread was George Stone who had started the first thread.

 

Georges first few thoughts replying to Anton were:

 

?Ayyyyy-men brother!

I agree with you completely.?

 

I could understand the response..it makes sense because Anton was supporting George?s idea, but what I found strange was that Anton is a correspondent of George?s and was in fact already making plans to meet with George in Syracuse, NY for coffee and bagels. This was just TOO MUCH of a coincidence for me. To read from George that someone else believed as George did just was the straw that broke the cacher?s back.

 

Additionally, Anton is a correspondent with George at George?s website Navicaching.com. For those of you who have not seen it, check it out. It is nicely done and is a regional version of Geocaching.com. As of May 2, 2001 there was not one thread that I could see that discussed the issue of web page publishing of cache clues/pictures. I find this strange as it is a perfect opportunity for George to promote his theories, though his audience is 1/20 that of Geocaching.com. If I were promoting a theory I would use my web site AND Geocaching.com but then that would be me. George is certainly free to use whatever approach he wants to promote his ideas.

 

So, I guess I have said everything I have to say about this issue and George?s approach to this topic. I wish him well, but I for one will not engage in a forum discussion with him again. To me the conversations carried on were akin to channel surfing on TV and running into the likes of the Jerry Springer show or some of those court room shows where a couple of people are shouting at each other about who did what or who agreed to what.

 

I let myself get sucked into this conversation and now I am leaving it. George has said that I was just a trouble-maker who came in to stir up the pot and then went slinking out the back door (or words to that effect) and he is certainly welcome to his opinion, but I think that the validation by several other posters to this thread bears out MY OPINION that while George had an idea to express in the beginning, that in the end he was not able to accept other people?s views, and as he said in a recent post, ??.I was right all along.?

 

Goodbye George?and happy cache hunting.

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Guest Scout

quote:
Originally posted by brucebridges:

Isn't it an easy compromise to suggest people note before any pix or comments that they may be spoilers for a hunter? Doesn't that eliminate the concern of ruining the hunt without asking people to limit their comments or pix? Seems its an easy way for both sides to respect the other.


 

It sounds reasonable, but is unlikely to meet with much success.

 

All logs already contain the caution, "Warning. Spoilers may be included in the descriptions or links." That wasn't enough to ward off criticism of posting a photograph on your own Web page. Why will people who ignore the first warning heed the second?

 

Besides, there's no consensus on what kind of information is considered to be a spoiler. There'll be endless debates whether some cache hunter did or didn't violate the convention with his log entry.

 

All that said, it's still a good suggestion. You just can't depend on it entirely. The only sure way to be protected from unsafe logs is abstinence. ;-)

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Guest Quinnow

your research as to why Anton made that thread as well as his comments were poor...very poor. And you come here to assume you are right in thinking I perhaps have set Anton up to make those comments or speak out on false concerns. Go look at the people who have logged finds on his cache sites and you will see that one if not more have added a web link to their own site showing as well as advertising the cache, cache pictures and the location within.

The pictures show everything, and THAT! is the reason Anton made that post and that only. But go ahead and believe that we had this heads together idea to come in and spark a fire after the original topic was dead for three weeks. My "ayyy-men brother" was after I saw his reason for the post.

Anton has been very excited due to new cachers and caches in his area, and he has worked hard to place the ones he has already (and if not for him Me and Gimpy most likely would not be going there this weekend on a 100 mile trek) so anyways he puts all this work into his caches, takes time to find the best spots, spends the money for containers and items of Interest and then posts the caches for us to find. After all this one person says I found it nad here is where you can see the pictures!

Anton has a digital camera of his own and has provided what he thought were fair clues to the caches placed. If he wanted more added he would have done it himself instead of having someone else do it for him.

Now I am not upset with the person who took these pictures because I understand people get excited and do things without thinking. And I am also certain that this person meant no harm at all to Anton or anyone else for that matter. But I do think it is still a common courtesy to ask a cache owner what his feelings are on this.

 

And Ron...I never placed a name with the comment about the sliding out the back door, I guess you just have a guilty mind.

And yes, I do have my own site and I also have my own board, why haven't I added this thread there? because I have not had this problem in my area yet. Have I stopped anyone else or edited anyone elses post on this topic there? NO!

Also please don't push me into the fire Ron when you say I have gotten into it with other people as well. two others here started up the thread again with questions directed right to me, so I answered. would I have made comment if they were general on the topic? no. I have been here and done that. And I never came over and twisted your arm to respond to anything I said, you always seemed willing to test the waters yourself.

So the last couple posts and many more than that I have said in a way we need to lighten up and cool down, i have said I am willing to shake hands and call it a day if i could. I have done everything I can do calm this topic and let it move on, then you come back to fuel the flame again. And seeing as how you prefer to go by my name let me clear that for you some... Quinn is first name, george is middle, stone is last. some friends call me George and some the other, so I use both at times so people know who I am at that point.

Best thing that could happen is that this thread will get deleted from the board. I am very sorry to Jeremy as well as the new people out there just starting the sport that might come in to read all this junk.

And Ron, would you like me to point out a couple heated moments with you and threads with others? you seemed to have forgotten to mention those when you mentioned mine.

Take care all...I am going back to Geocaching and will try to have some fun!

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Quinnow

By the way scout...I agree with your last post icon_smile.gif

 

------------------

Quinn Stone

Rochester, NY.14616

www.Navicache.com

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Guest Anton

Facts:

 

Coincidence DOES exist in the world.

There is no conspiracy here - at all.

I don't know George well enough to conspire.

George and I have never met or even phoned.

Ron could have asked me, but he didn't.

We've all taken this issue too seriously.

If I could, I'd delete this thread entirely.

 

Anton

 

[This message has been edited by Anton (edited 04 May 2001).]

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Guest WrongWay

Hi Falco,

 

Please drop me an e-mail at teamwrongway@hotmail.com.

 

I'd like to discuss some of the issues you posted.

 

regards,

 

Jim

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Guest Monz

Was gonna go out and stash my first cache today... but started reading this thread, its now 7:11pm and I dont there is enough daylight left icon_biggrin.gif

When do you guys get time to geocache with all this "opinion" posting going on icon_smile.gif

 

[This message has been edited by Monz (edited 06 May 2001).]

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