Placing caches on a whim ...

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

Is it just me, or would anyone else find this to be a total letdown? I think it's an embarrassment to the sport.

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[This message has been edited by Rich in NEPA (edited 04 February 2002).]

[Guest Mopar]

Sounds like the east coast version of the sneaker cache!

[Guest Hawk-eye]

Well Rich ... I think we can all see why they're single

I see they have another cache in a bag ... I bet you're jumping in the car right now ... aren't you?

 

[This message has been edited by Hawk-eye (edited 04 February 2002).]

[Guest VentureForth]

My first reaction was "Gee, Rich. Give 'em a break. Don't hurt their feelings. They're newbies and probably just trying to get started."

 

Then I thought about it a bit.

 

They don't give a crap about this sport. They obviously haven't read anything on the "How To Place A Cache" page. What they have done is TRULY created litter. I think Jeremy should contact the owner immediately and archive this disappointment.

 

How much more effort would it have taken to put the candle, a little notebook, and a pencil in a cheap ziplock disposable container?

 

It still wouldn't have met 'standards', but it would have been at least remotely respectable. The main point is that if they are using geocaching.com, they agree to abide by its terms and conditions. In effect, they are 'trashing' the integrity of geocaching.com. If they wanted to do this for their group and give out the coordinates in a meeting, that'd be fine. They should not involve those serious with the sport with something they obviously don't take seriously themselves.

 

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VentureForth out to the wild, wet forest...

[Guest Hawk-eye]

quote:

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Originally posted by VentureForth:

... If they wanted to do this for their group and give out the coordinates in a meeting, that'd be fine. They should not involve those serious with the sport with something they obviously don't take seriously themselves.

 

---

 

I have to aggree ... I would be the last to critic another person's attempt first or otherwise at a cache ... but this is the sort of thing that could give us the "Litter in the forest" association. This is not a cache to maintain and use ... it's more like ... well ... littering. We have a problem already with State Parks and other groups referring to "abandoned" objects ... and the like in making value decisions on caching.

 

This doesn't meet the spirit of the sport ... maybe they just don't understand ... maybe a well worded ... non-attacking ... word of encouragement to volunteer some pointers .... would help them do it right ...

 

Or they get pissed off and leave ... who knows.

[Guest rdwatson78]

You'd think a club of 100 single people would have enough time and collective imagination to do better than that. You could place a cache like that by throwing it from your car as you drive by. (Hey that gives me an idea. Just attach tupperware to a frisbee.)

And why did they bother wrapping it in cellophane?? Aren't candles kind of waterproof anyway.

Sad, sad, sad. I got a good laugh from your picture though. You look so proud having found a cache-candle.

 

rdw

 

[This message has been edited by rdwatson78 (edited 04 February 2002).]

[Guest rdwatson78]

I hate to reply to myself, but...

 

I just checked the US webpage and they also have a travel bug. (Which they apparently don't know how to drop off.)

 

Travel bug-- http://www.geocaching.com/track/track_detail.asp?ID=4452

 

The other cache-- http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=13210 . This cache looks like a *real winner* too.

 

Oh Jeremy, where are you?

 

rdw

[Guest Lazyboy]

the middle of town. I'm upfront about it not being much, but it's a cache and in a busy area.

 

Think that hurts the sport? Honestly I think ones like I left helps people in town to find one without traveling much. I've left plenty of conventional caches all over. What do you think?

[Guest Mopar]

I think part of the problem is it appears that they have not found a cache yet, so they really have no idea what a "good" cache is or isn't. I think people should be strongly encouraged to find 5-10 before placing one. Perhaps a flag can be raised for the cache approval crew when someone with zero finds posts a new cache for approval?

[Guest geospotter]

Oh! So it IS about the cache ("it's not about the cache, it's about the hunt...").

 

While I couldn't help that bit of sarcasm, I agree with everyone else here. It's trash. And while I see the 'one man's trash is another man's treasure' comment a lot, I think we all know trash when we see it. And we are clearly seeing it here.

 

You're right this hurts the sport.

[Guest essay]

Of course it's about the cache, silly! Why else would we have so many folks making up geocaching sig pieces, etc., etc.?

 

at least it's gone now, since it was only one item and it's been found ...

 

I do think simple caches, especially in busy areas or in town, are a great way to get people interested or play when there's not a lot of time. But if a cache doesn't even have a log book, then that's not a cache to me -- microcaches excepted, and with those the absence of a log book is often noted in the description. However, that would require more thought and planning than was apparently used here.

 

Mostly it sounds to me like they just didn't know -- I don't think it was a malicious gesture. They can apparently use a GPS, or they couldn't have posted cache coords -- I wonder why the couldn't find the cache they were looking for?

[Guest pater47]

Hmm, maybe the travel bug is a match to light the candle with. Doesn't look like a lot of effort and planning was put into this, and now you ruin it for all the rest of us by publishing a photo that gives away what color candle it is! Now if I'm out that way and find a red candle, I'll have to keep looking.

Gee, maybe I should plan my vacation around finding this one....naaaaah.

 

[This message has been edited by pater47 (edited 04 February 2002).]

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

I have no problem with simple caches. Micro-caches can be a lot of fun to look for, too. But I'm still a traditionalist in the "take something--leave something--sign the logbook" aspect of the sport. I'm not a big fan of virtual caches, and have never done one, but I suppose there's enough interest in them to make them a viable component of Geocaching. Of course, the items contained in the cache are not the primary reason for its existence or for hunting it. Mostly, I'd say agree with the notion that "the journey is the destination," and that the cache at the end of it is simply the motivation that precedes action. If all this cache had was a single candle, it would still have been a worthwhile endeavor. What troubles me about it, however, is the casual attitude that it displays ... the fact that it was a totally spur-of-the-moment, let's-just-leave-this-thing-here-and-call-it-a-cache, half-assed attempt. No, I don't think it was a malicious act. I think it was inconsiderate and shameless.

 

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~Rich in NEPA~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[Guest essay]

Do you think a more experienced cacher in their area would be willing to lead a hunt -- maybe to the one they were out trying to find ? Kind of mentor them into the fold?

 

Utah had a rash of caches that were at least as bad (see the 'would it be tacky?' thread), but one of the local cachers, madphatboy2, finally caught up with them, and at one point, they were going to go caching together. If you're available this (Monday) evening for ClayJar's chat room (8:30 central, I believe), he might be able to tell you what his experiences were -- he's often there.

 

admittedly, their attitude, regardless of motivation (or lack thereof), resulted in a very disappointing cache ...

[Guest Alan2]

I think the whole point of this simple cache is first find is only find. Then the game is over. No trade, no log, no nothing else. Their de-crypted hint says it all: "Look for the plastic bag near the hearth for a dinner by candlelight." The candle was it!

 

Rich, did you have dinner with your wife/girlfriend by candlelight?

 

(of course the cache should now be archived.)

 

Alan2

[Guest tedoca]

working together towards a common goal... would be a great way for folks to get to know one another... they just need a little guidance.

[Guest BassoonPilot]

quote:

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Originally posted by tedoca:

Ya know, almost everytime I tell someone about this activity the first thing that comes out of their mouth is... 'Yeah, that sounds cool, I'd like to hide one here or there blah blah blah.' I always tell them they should find a few before considering hiding one of their own and then they get all disapointed.

 

---

 

Well, it would have been nice if you had at least listened to their ideas and perhaps offered a little support before discouraging their initial enthusiasm in the sport.

 

I've visited cache sites by newbies that have been superior to, and shown far more imagination than, caches placed by experienced geocachers with, oh, 40 or 50 finds. And of course I've seen the poor efforts of the type that initiated this thread.

 

I would be remiss not to add that some of the best, the most challenging and most memorable cache sites I've visited were placed by one of the early, illustrious geocachers . . . and to date he has logged fewer than 20 finds, against close to 50 cache placements.

 

So be careful not to dismiss someone who you think has less experience than yourself.

 

[This message has been edited by BassoonPilot (edited 07 February 2002).]

[Guest tedoca]

quote:

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Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

Well, it would have been nice if you had at least listened to their ideas and perhaps offered a little support before discouraging their initial enthusiasm in the sport... snip

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Ouch! That hurts, and in my opinion has no basis in the spirit of my post. In fact, if you read my post you will see that encouraging and helping these folks was the whole point I was trying to make.

 

I agree 100% that 'newbies' can have just as much ability, creativity, and imagination in placing their caches as an 'experienced' cacher might, and far be it from me to stifle their efforts, however that would not appear to be the case in this particular instance.

 

As far as dismissing the ideas of new cachers, again, nothing could be farther from the truth. Of course, new players bring new ideas and keep the game fresh and appealing to a wide audience.

 

I will stick to my guns though... it seems to me that finding a few caches before placing one of your own is just common sense, and had the singles group in question taken the time to learn a little more about the activity before placing their first cache, their members, and the rest of the geocaching community, may well have benefited from that experience.

 

 

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Regards,

Tedoca

[Guest BassoonPilot]

quote:

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Originally posted by tedoca:

Ouch! That hurts, and in my opinion has no basis in the spirit of my post. In fact, if you read my post you will see that encouraging and helping these folks was the whole point I was trying to make.

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I did read your entire post. And quite frankly, as I read it, I thought "actions speak louder than words."

 

The way I read it, and re-read it, the sentiments offered in the second and third paragraphs appear to directly contradict the action demonstrated in the first paragraph, where you made no mention of offering to assist your friends in their early endeavors. The first paragraph of your original post came across as being rather negative and dismissive. My apologies if I misunderstood what you wrote.

 

[This message has been edited by BassoonPilot (edited 07 February 2002).]

[Guest dhaelis]

So, I guess that, in this case, the 'cache' IS out of the bag! Bwahahahaha...

 

[meek little voice on] Ok, I'll be good now [meek little voice off].

 

But geez, what a poor excuse for a cache!

 

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The Best Music you haven't heard...

www.mp3.com/apoplexia

[Guest Watson]

Devil's advocate speaking:

 

Any chance that the candle is what's left over from a plundered cache?

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

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Originally posted by Watson:

Any chance that the candle is what's left over from a plundered cache?

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Not likely, especially if you read the description and the hint. I found the candle stuffed under a rotting log next to a stone barbeque pit, and this being within stone's throw of a private residence. I'm convinced that this was merely a case of "well, we carried this candle into the woods and didn't find the cache, so let's leave it here and make our own cache."

 

Let's face it, this was NOT a heartfelt attempt at partaking in the game. Poor judgement, inexperience, or lack of imagination I can empathize with and forgive.

 

~Rich in NEPA~

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

Well, here's an update on the infamous ?Dinner by Candlelight?? cache. Guess somebody didn't like the account of my less-than-exhilarating experience. The log was deleted with no warning or explanation.

 

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~Rich in NEPA~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[Guest ACME Geocachers]

Do you think Dale Carnegie would have approved of your replacement log?

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

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Originally posted by ACME Geocachers:

Do you think Dale Carnegie would have approved of your replacement log?

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Probably not, and he wouldn't approve of the cache, either. I'm still a little peeved. I'm suggesting to Jeremy that the cache be archived. It's a joke.

 

~Rich in NEPA~

 

[This message has been edited by Rich in NEPA (edited 15 February 2002).]

[Guest BikerGar]

Come on guys lighten up. Its a game, not arms and legs. Cache creators are given the option to delete logs. Should they, no, but if they place caches like this what leads us to believe they know how to manage the cache page. Lets not become elitist, there are many levels of the game. Caches that it takes many days to accomplish and some you can see from the "road". If you put litter in an ammo box is it no longer litter. There are plenty of ammo boxes out there with very little in them and full logs or no logs. Is the answer to archive them. Maybe a better way would be to carry some blank log books, some extra plastic bags and place something meaningful in these caches. I think a lot of people do that now. I say this without knowing what the original log said, but has anyone e-mailed these folks to show them the error of there ways in a constuctive tone. I'll do it if no one else wants the privilege.

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

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Originally posted by BikerGar:

Come on guys lighten up. Its a game, not arms and legs.

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You're right. I've had time to reconsider and ... to heck with it. It isn't worth the aggravation. I'll know better next time.

 

BWT, take a look at their second cache, it's just as lame!

 

~Rich in NEPA~

[Guest BikerGar]

Rich I've only been doing this since 12/01 so I'm very new to it, but I am seeing a positive evolution in myself. When I first started I used all the hints and spoilers I could find, but by getting out in the woods and lurky learning on the forum I've found I enjoy caching a whole lot more by trying first without them. Its been a great confidence builder and I been having pretty good luck.(Not without SOME problems.(See Buckhead by Tuna)(I'd give a link but I don't know how.)) My point is maybe out of 100 or so people 2 or 3 have to be conscientious enough to want to learn.(maybe)

[Guest jaw2925]

I think the 'University Singles' caches are both commercial. It seems obvious to me that publicizing the name of the organization was their primary intent. If their motivation had only been sponsoring a singles group activity then they would've gone on a trip to already established caches and left it at that. If their interest had been in geocaching rather than free publicity then they wouldn't have produced two such weak efforts. Anybody concur?

 

[This message has been edited by jaw2925 (edited 15 February 2002).]

[Guest Hawk-eye]

Ya know ... you might have something there. When I saw Rich's post ... it was hard to imagine anyone going to the trouble to create a cache page ... for something that didn't even resemble a cache ... something that could easily be mistaken for trash. I just know I'd be pretty put out if I'd made the trip and found that. I've found some caches that were ... basically nothing to write home about ... but this was just lame. But who knows ... you might be right. But if that was the case ... it was still lame.

[Guest Alan2]

But are they cute?

 

Alan