Naive question, but what's the point?

[Guest bunkerdave]

ou what a priceless thing that is.

[Guest Rocky]

The wonderment of how the GPS woks trips my trigger all by itself. I live in an area that that draws tourists from all over the world. (Finger Lakes Area NY State). Like most people I have taken for granted what is in my own backyard. Geocaching has taken me to places these last few weeks that others have traveled thousands of miles to see. It has drawn my best friend (Mrs Rocky) and I together as we both enjoy this beautiful world

[Guest jamesb]

It seems to me the thing Puzzled is most concerned with, is if people out Geocaching or using a GPS have paid there dues. (so to speak.) Yes, people may go Geocaching and not know the first thing about using a map. Your posts seem to indicate you think that this is somehow a negative thing. Wake up! It is the nature of technology and progress to make difficult things more accessible to the main stream populous. For example, I am an engineer, but have never used a slide rule and would not have the faintest idea how too. Gee I guess I didn't pay my dues, so I shouldn't be an engineer? That is a just the foolish approach of a luddite.

 

I use my GPS to navigate for hunting, hiking, and Geocaching. Do I prefer it over maps and a compass? Every day of the week. Navigation is a means to accomplish the outdoor activities I enjoy, and if it can be easier of course I'm going to use it. Your approach almost seems to say, people can't do anything that requires a bit of navigation unless they have the skills I have. GPS will open up a range of outdoor activities to folks who might otherwise not have the time or resources to learn "your" skill set.

 

As for the safety of folks who go out without map or compass. There safety is there responsibility, not yours, not the states, not the federal governments. Your the kind of person who would support a mandatory seat belt law. Frankly, my life is mine to use, or loose if I do something to jeopardize it. I take extraordinary precautions to see that I do not loose it.

 

Finally, going on a forum designed for GPS and Geocaching enthusiasts and posting such a thread as this is begging for a fight. I doubt very seriously if you truly had and "Intellectual" purpose. Go play with your map and compass, meanwhile I'll be at my chosen destination (found with the aid of my GPS) and enjoying the activities I had planned.

 

James

[Guest GFDT8]

Hey puzzled,I hope that all of the comments and opinions that have been posted here have helped you with your thesis.

[Guest turken]

quote:

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Originally posted by puzzled:

As for showing people interesting places, why not open up a book or talk to friends- you'll find it more effecient, unless of course, you ARE actually interested in the process of exploring rather than in the arrival.

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Besides the fact that I AM more interested in the exploring than the finding, I've found that geocaching has one enormous advantage over "opening a book or talking to friends." Geocaching is a means of generating NEW friends. In my home area, through means of geocaching, I have made several new friends and gotten to know a bit about them. However, I have yet to meet any of these people in person. Instead, we travel to each other's caches and we talk about what we did/saw through the logbooks and the discussion forums. Through geocaching we are able to show each other places in the city that the others may not have known existed, and based on themes and locations we share a little bit of ourselves that they did not know as well.

[Guest chipper]

I guess I am the exception to the rule. I HAVE just punched in a set of coordinates and headed for a cache. There is still a little excitement left in exploring the unknown. I've used a map and compass for years. With a topo you can get a good look at the "lay of the land". But sometimes it's fun not to know where every ridge, valley and trail is located? Don't get me wrong I do still use my map and compass but it is downright exhillerating to forge my own trail to a cache.

With all this said, I've enjoyed many hours of plotting out routes on topo maps. Similar to the excitement of a child the night before Christmas. All the planning and plotting is it's own form of enjoyment. But in the end what it comes down to is that none of it is "real" until you actually see the area with your own eyes.

Some people don't enjoy the map reading side of geocaching. As a matter of fact my wife hates it. But she has no problem grabbing her GPS and going on a 8,000 foot climb with me for hours. She loves the thrill of the hunt. To each his own.

[Guest barefoot]

At the risk of not reading each and every message in this thread, I think the consensus is that both GPS units and traditional methods of navigation both have their place in geocaching. Furthermore, if you wish to use strictly traditional means of nav. in a gaming environment, there's a little something called orienteering for you. Leave your GPS at home, strap on your compass, and go run through the woods. Everything for everyone. Don't overthink all of this! It'll ruin it. It's a game, not a philosophy

 

Just my 2 cents...you can give me back my change if you'd like!

 

Now, if any of y'all would like to discuss the focus and philosophy of stashing caches in poison oak or other vile plants, that'd be something I'm interested in...

 

Have fun everyone!

[Guest barefoot]

At the risk of not reading each and every message in this thread, I think the consensus is that both GPS units and traditional methods of navigation both have their place in geocaching. Furthermore, if you wish to use strictly traditional means of nav. in a gaming environment, there's a little something called orienteering for you. Leave your GPS at home, strap on your compass, and go run through the woods. Everything for everyone. Don't overthink all of this! It'll ruin it. It's a game, not a philosophy

 

Just my 2 cents...you can give me back my change if you'd like!

 

Now, if any of y'all would like to discuss the focus and philosophy of stashing caches in poison oak or other vile plants, that'd be something I'm interested in...

 

Have fun everyone!

[Guest suntzu]

HR>

 

Duh!

[Guest bunkerdave]

I have already posted one reply to this thread, but it's the closest I can come to what I am thinking - probably because the topic here is as nebulous as they get.

 

I tend to do quite a bit of research, map-wise before I set out for a cache. More-so when I am going for multiple caches in one trip. Mostly so I know how to reach the general area, and can do the minimum amount of driving, and spend more time hiking and searching. I would prefer to just punch the coordinates and hit the road, but without some advane planning, if only to know how long it will take, I fear that would set me up for failure - if not danger. Interestingly, this week I actually purchased a book on orienteering - the map and compass type - just so I can see what the comparisons are about. Obviously, I will always prefer my "little green buddy" with the soothing green backlight, but compasses are neat too - "no batteries required."

[Guest Two cents]

Anyone remember when calculator's were first allowed in school exams?

 

It's an example of how technology slowly takes over from what was before. I once saw a school mate argue with our teacher about an answer she got wrong on a test. She even re-entered it, to show the teacher that his answer was wrong, but guess what, the calculator was giving the wrong answer based on the way it was entered. Because she didn't understand the order of operations, she didn't notice that an answer of 292 was nowhere near the 18 that she should have got.

 

A GPS unit is similar to a calculator in this regard. If a person will not take the time to learn the long hand version, he/she will leave themselves open to disaster. But, like the calculator did for math, I believe it will one day replace all other forms of navigation, because of speed alone.

 

Technology like this will not shut the minds of people, it will open minds that never had a door in the first place. Calculator's gave us the ability in school to solve math problems that would otherwise take hours and many a pencil to solve. They did not unlearn math from our minds, they expanded them to new levels. My dad once got very mad because I got an easy question wrong once. His exact words were "Your in grade 12 learning calculus, but you can't add two and two!". Well call me blind, but without that calculator I never would have attempted calculus. By the time I graduated, if you didn't have a calculator you were toast. The questions were to long, and time didn't allow for simple multipling and adding on paper.

 

A GPS allows the layman/laywoman to do in hours (minutes for some), what used to take weeks of training to teach Sar-Tech's (search and rescue technicians). That is, be dropped in the middle of nowhere, and find your way home. This technology expands our freedom and increases the possiblities for us. People as a whole will be able to do things they never would have dared before. To learn map reading and understand other forms of navigation are of course good, if for no other reason than to notice when technology is failing.

 

I never believe wholeheartedly in anything made by man, espesically if it requires constant human input for accuracy, a simple math question taught me that once. Nonetheless I say save a tree, stop using paper and go electronic. Seems to work well for email and message boards!

[Guest CaptHawke]

Not yet Two Cents, not until the maps built into GPS recievers contain all the detail found on a standard topo map. To do this now would require plugging your GPS into a laptop loaded with the proper mapping software; an awkward arrangement for field use. The day will certainly come when a handheld unit will have that capability but it isn't here now.

 

And even when it is available, you will still have to be able to make sense out of the map.

Too many GPS users seem to think that navigation consists of drawing a straight line between two points and then following a simple bearing. This thinking ignores the topography between the two points; cliffs, lakes, unexploded munitions (see Joe English, http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=1968 ). Following the straight line from Spain to China didn't work for Columbus; he was eventually brought back to Spain in chains for his 'failures'. The day may come when a handheld unit will be able to plot the quickest, safest route between two points, but it isn't here now. (As any user of SA8.0 knows )

 

I think the true test will be the day a skilled GPS user, with only his handheld unit, can out perform an equally skilled orienteer, with a paper map and an old fashioned magnetic compass, over a multi-legged course of several miles covering varied terrain. Is there anyone here up to the challenge?

[Guest CaptHawke]

Not yet Two Cents, not until the maps built into GPS recievers contain all the detail found on a standard topo map. To do this now would require plugging your GPS into a laptop loaded with the proper mapping software; an awkward arrangement for field use. The day will certainly come when a handheld unit will have that capability but it isn't here now.

 

And even when it is available, you will still have to be able to make sense out of the map.

Too many GPS users seem to think that navigation consists of drawing a straight line between two points and then following a simple bearing. This thinking ignores the topography between the two points; cliffs, lakes, unexploded munitions (see Joe English, http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=1968 ). Following the straight line from Spain to China didn't work for Columbus; he was eventually brought back to Spain in chains for his 'failures'. The day may come when a handheld unit will be able to plot the quickest, safest route between two points, but it isn't here now. (As any user of SA8.0 knows )

 

I think the true test will be the day a skilled GPS user, with only his handheld unit, can out perform an equally skilled orienteer, with a paper map and an old fashioned magnetic compass, over a multi-legged course of several miles covering varied terrain. Is there anyone here up to the challenge?

[Guest Iron Chef]

quote:

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Originally posted by puzzled:

I mean no offence, but can anyone help me gain an insight into what geocaching offers over and above using a map and compass?

I own a GPS, but the skills in mapreading and the the wealth of resources behind it are surely more subtle than following a direction pointer. If the challenge is overcoming obstacles or visiting remote places then why not take up climbing (for example) in it's own right?

I agree that it may help draw some people to the outdoors, which is a good thing, but there is a risk losing skills on which navigation depends, or worse of encouraging others to take up a new skill without knowledge of the underlying principles.

One could argue that this is a prime example of technology searching for a use, rather than allowing the evolution of something that wasn't possible beforehand. Fun it may be, but a map and remarkable trust in the action which the earth has over metal will lead you to <20m of any point and is arguably more challenging.

No insults intended, just curiosity.

No insults intended, just curiosity.

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Reinventing the wheel :~) it kicks butt.

 

 

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-Iron Chef

_ _____________________ _

agefive.com/geocache/

"But a big booming voice from the sky is exactly what you have found..."

-Contact

[Guest bunkerdave]

y CaptHawke:

Not yet Two Cents, not until the maps built into GPS recievers contain all the detail found on a standard topo map. To do this now would require plugging your GPS into a laptop loaded with the proper mapping software; an awkward arrangement for field use. The day will certainly come when a handheld unit will have that capability but it isn't here now.

 

I think the true test will be the day a skilled GPS user, with only his handheld unit, can out perform an equally skilled orienteer, with a paper map and an old fashioned magnetic compass, over a multi-legged course of several miles covering varied terrain. Is there anyone here up to the challenge?

 

I have a Magellan MAP330, which comes pretty close to having the deatil of a Topographic map. And I received a letter from Magellan this week informing me that it is aboiu to get a lot closer. A new version of MapSend is being released this summer that has all the data currently available - lakes, rivers, streets, railroads, points of interest, etc, AND all the elevation data as well. I for one am waitning for the release. I agree with you on vrtually all counts; maps are an essential tool of navigation. It is not only foolish, but dangerous to venture out in unfamiliar, sometimes even familiar, territory without one. I am quite certain that a compass navigator with a map would be more effective than I would be with just my GPS receiver, but since when was this a competition. I carry them all; only a fool would not use all the tools at his disposal in any task, unless the rules of some competition dictated otherwise. Before I go after a cache, I have the route plotted on my PC mapping software, so I know how far I have to drive. I have waypoints plugged in for where I will have to park and begin my hiking, if necessary. Some GPS users would say this takes the fun out of the sport. I think getting injured or lost, or just not getting where I am going takes MORE of the fun out of it. To each his own, but I have learned a TON about everything having to do with navigation - both compass AND GPS - in the last month. Not to mention seeing some awesome sights and spending some high quality time with my family.

 

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