Where to buy Lithium AA cells?

[Guest joshuabrand]

I've looked around for disposable AA lithium cells for use in colder weather, but I havn't seen them anywhere. Does anyone know of any common store that carries them in regular stock? Or are they more of a specialty item?

[Guest Prime Suspect]

Don't know if they still do, but Radio Shack used to sell lithiums. I bought several of the 9v to use for items that need a backup battery (alarm clock, etc.) due to their abilty to hold a charge for a l-o-n-g time.

[Guest brokenwing]

Walmart.com sells the Energizer e2's in 4 packs for about 10 bucks. Of course this does not mean that the brick and mortar stores have them if you were looking to find them locally. Radio Shack also sounds like a good choice, but if you can't find them there, you might try a camera store.

 

That said, I've never seen the appeal of such batteries. Wouldn't spending a little more on a good set of NiMH rechargables be a better deal?

 

Thanks,

brokenwing

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest worldtraveler]

The WalMart stores in TN sell the lithium batteries for about the same price mentioned for the .com site.

[Guest Geoffrey]

Get the batteries at Best Buy.

 

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http://members.aol.com/geoffr524/myhomepage/howto.html

[Guest joshuabrand]

quote:

---

Originally posted by brokenwing:

Walmart.com sells the Energizer e2's in 4 packs for about 10 bucks.... Wouldn't spending a little more on a good set of NiMH rechargables be a better deal?

---

 

Actaully, I already have NiMH batteries, I've been quite fond of rechargeables for quite a while, but since I live in North Dakota, I have to worry about performance in cold weather about 3-4 months out of the year.

 

One more question, are the e2's lithium? e2's are easily found around my area, but I though they were just a high power battery similar to Duracell Ultra. The reason that I would be using lithium is for better performance in the cold.

[Guest brokenwing]

I didn't realize this, but apparently Energizer markets two different AA batteries under the e2 logo. The regular e2's are not lithium cells, but the e2 Photo AA cells ARE lithium. Sorry for the confusion. Look for the ones labeled "photo". They have blue bottoms as opposed to the regular e2's that are all silver.

 

To the best of my knowlege, these are the only AA lithium batteries in the world. Have you seen others?

 

By the way, the price and availability on walmart.com IS for the e2 photo cells, not the regular e2 batteries.

 

I guess cold is not something I've had to worry about too much down here in Texas! I did notice a slight difference in battery life during the peak part of the summer, but nothing extreme. Does cold really affect the NiMH batteries enough to make them unusable?

 

Thanks,

brokenwing

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest k2dave]

I would also like to know how much the cold cuts down on Nimh batts - and if the unit is indoors to start and on outdoors it might generate enough heat to retain most of it's power.

 

For daytripping around town I will use Nimh and get about 12 hrs. For overnight out of town trips I will switch to alk's (apx 19 hrs). mainly so I don't have to bring the recharger and worry about saving the batts. Also I don't like partially charging/discharging the batts which I tend to do if I'm away. For overnight hikes I'll go w/ Li because they are the longest lasting and also are the lightest weight.

[Guest Trafcon]

You didn't say where in ND you are from. If you live in a town with an Office Depot they sell Lithium batteries, Panasonic I think. Other office supplier might also but I got mine from Office Depot.

 

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KTF !!! GBWY !!!

[Guest brokenwing]

Be careful buying anthing other than the Eveready Lithium AA's. They used to make the L91's that were 1.5 volt, but I think these were replaced with the e2 photo lithiums. Either way, I'm pretty sure that Eveready is the only manufacurer that makes 1.5 volt Lithium AA's. All the rest like Panasonic's are 3.6 volt cells. This could be disasterous if you are not absolutely sure your GPSr will work with these. If you are sure it will handle that high a voltage, these others should work fine too, but it seems risky to me.

 

Thanks,

brokenwing

 

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http://www.cordianet.com/geocaching

[Guest Exocet]

I got an eight pack of Energizer Photo (L91) Lithium batteries from zbattery.com for about $23 w/ shipping. In my opinion, the lithium batteries have been worth it for three reasons: they last about 2-3x longer than normal alkalines ...which means I carry 2-3x less batteries ...which means I'm throwing away 2-3x less batteries.

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Exocet:

In my opinion, the lithium batteries have been worth it for three reasons: they last about 2-3x longer than normal alkalines ... which means I carry 2-3x less batteries ...

---

 

 

In addition, the Lithium batteries weigh half as much as regular Alkalines, have a temperature range of -40°F to 140°F, and have a shelf-life of 10 years. I typically get about 3X the runtime in my Garmin 12XL, and that's with the remote amplified antenna connected! The cheapest prices I found lately are at Walmart ($9.94 for a 4-pack).

 

Now, if only Energizer would make them in C-size and D-size! Has anyone ever seen them, and if so, where?

 

~~Rich in NEPA~~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[Guest k2dave]

ok a rough cost comparison using the cheapest places listed or that I know of:

Li = $10 for 4 = $2.50 each (Wallmart)

 

Name Brand Alk = $0.50 each (Costco, BJ's)

 

No Name Alks = $0.25 each (Costco, Bj's - Does Costco carry them anymore- I havn't seen them in a while)

 

Nimh (assuming 6 AA and 2 AAA cells and charger - because this is a pack sold at costco and I know the price) = $26/6 (don't need AAA) = $4.33 each. Let us assume 100 recharges dropping the price to $0.043 add back a little electricity cost and lets say $0.05

 

Also lets say in a rough estimation that Li will last 3x Alks and Alks will last 2x Nimh.

 

So it will take 6 recharges of Nimh to equal that of 2 alks to equal that of 1 Li.

 

For equal runtime (4 battery unit):

Li will cost you $10

Brand name Alk = $6

No Brand Alks = $3

Nimh = $1.20

 

conclusion

Giving Li a great advantage by giving it the longest stated run time (3x that of alks) and a low cycle rate on the Nimh (100 recharge cycels when they could go 500-1000 and including the cost of the charger and somethign for the electricity). It appears to me that Li is the most expensive way to power your gps thought of by man to date - an exageration but more expensive then the above choices.

 

The advantages of Li are:

Long self life - not really an issue w/ gps except for Nimh and NiCd

Low temp opperation - I would like to hear more on Alk and Nimh performance at low temp.

Longer run time - carry less batts, less to pack.

Light weight - carry less weight.

[Guest k2dave]

reat advantage by giving it the longest stated run time (3x that of alks) and a low cycle rate on the Nimh (100 recharge cycels when they could go 500-1000 and including the cost of the charger and somethign for the electricity). It appears to me that Li is the most expensive way to power your gps thought of by man to date - an exageration but more expensive then the above choices.

 

The advantages of Li are:

Long self life - not really an issue w/ gps except for Nimh and NiCd

Low temp opperation - I would like to hear more on Alk and Nimh performance at low temp.

Longer run time - carry less batts, less to pack.

Light weight - carry less weight.

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by k2dave:

It appears to me that Li is the most expensive way to power your gps thought of by man to date - an exageration but more expensive then the above choices.

[/b]

---

 

Dave, of course no one is claiming that they AREN'T the most expensive. Convenience, light weight, dependability, etc., all have costs of their own. You are absolutely right: for most applications, including GPSRs, standard Alkalines and rechargeable NIMHs are often more than adequate, and are certainly more cost effective. (Personally, I use 4 different smart chargers and have over two dozen sets of 1600mAh NiMH batteries in various applications.) In extreme conditions and unusual situations, however, I feel that the Lithiums are worth the weight of their "competition" in gold. I am really pleased to have this option available to me and I'm willing to economize in other areas in order to afford it. (I guess what I'm saying is that in the case of my GPSR, it's the same reason that I don't drink cheap beer!) Cheers ...

 

~~Rich in NEPA~~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[Guest JoeyBob]

Joshua, I am using these same batteries, in my gps and digital camera. Love them! Try the Home Depot in your area, they are a little cheaper than Wal Mart here in Raleigh.

JoeyBob

[Guest joshuabrand]

I've found them at Office Depot and Radio Shack now. But they're a little pricy still. I think I'll have to stick to the NiMH. I'd rather trade battery life for better cost effectiveness. However, if I ever need them, I'll know where to get them.

 

Also, it would be nice if they made 1.5V or 1.2V rechargeable lithiums. Then I could replace my NiMH with them and have excellent performance in the cold and still have good cost effectiveness.

[Guest k2dave]

Rich in NEPA I have stated that there are advantages to Li batts and I use them myself when I need/want the benefits over te cost/weight of other batts.

 

but in response to:

quote:

---

Dave, of course no one is claiming that they AREN'T the most expensive

---

 

I must have read something into one of the posts that isn't there. I thought someone said that they were worth the extra money due to the extra run time but don't see anything like that now.

[Guest Betty]

I thought lithium batteries were all 3 volts. I wonder how they make a 1.5 volt AA's with lithium chemistry. Seems to me too, if its so cold that ordinary batteries won't work, the display probably won't enther. You could put a battery pack in your warm shirt pocket inside your coat, with wires going out to the GPSR. That's what we did for a camcorder we used near the north pole once in -35 deg weather.

[Guest Prime Suspect]

quote:

---

Originally posted by brokenwing:

I did notice a slight difference in battery life during the peak part of the summer, but nothing extreme. Does cold really affect the NiMH batteries enough to make them unusable?

---

 

I have a 12v NiMH lighting system for my bicycle (10 C-cells in a water bottle shaped case). We do night rides down the White Rock trail, with occasional detours to Deep Elum or the West End, twice a week. This lighting system uses a microprocessor to monitor charging and power usage, and to set the wattage setting. When it detects that power is getting too low, it goes into reserve-mode, automatically dropping to 6 watt output (lowest setting) to give you the maximum remaining burn time.

 

We ride pretty much regardless of how cold it is, as long as there's no ice or snow on the streets. I've noticed that when the temperature is in the 30's, I have to be a bit more conservative in my light usage in order to get back before it goes into reserve-mode. The light output at any setting seems the same regardless of the setting. But that may be due the fact that it's being controlled by the microprocessor.

[Guest madphatboy2]

I don't want to rain on anybodies parade, but I avoid E2's like the plaque. They exploded in my 3+ and caused problems. Not to bash energizers, but from my experience and as well as some collegues of mine, they have a dendancy to explode. I'll stick with Duracell.

[Guest WJJagfan]

I was intreged by K2Dave's analysis and ran some numbers myself.

 

Using the same costs:

• NiMH = $4.33
• Li = $2.50
• Alk = $.50

 

and the same run times: Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH

 

Assuming the NiMH lasts 500 charges you would go through 250 Alks and 83 Liths in that same period of time for total costs of:

• NiHM = $4.33
• Li = $208.32
• Alk = $125.00

 

I can see some situations where I'd use a Lithium battery, but they are not worth their weight in gold. Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each. That would be $21.11 a piece! I think they're already expensive enough.

 

For extended backpacking trips - use the lithiums. For 99.999% of GeoCaching situations - I'll take the NiMH rechargables.

 

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WJJagFan

[Guest WJJagfan]

I was intreged by K2Dave's analysis and ran some numbers myself.

 

Using the same costs:

• NiMH = $4.33
• Li = $2.50
• Alk = $.50

 

and the same run times: Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH

 

Assuming the NiMH lasts 500 charges you would go through 250 Alks and 83 Liths in that same period of time for total costs of:

• NiHM = $4.33
• Li = $208.32
• Alk = $125.00

 

I can see some situations where I'd use a Lithium battery, but they are not worth their weight in gold. Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each. That would be $21.11 a piece! I think they're already expensive enough.

 

For extended backpacking trips - use the lithiums. For 99.999% of GeoCaching situations - I'll take the NiMH rechargables.

 

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WJJagFan

[Guest WJJagfan]

L>

 

and the same run times: Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH

 

Assuming the NiMH lasts 500 charges you would go through 250 Alks and 83 Liths in that same period of time for total costs of:

• NiHM = $4.33
• Li = $208.32
• Alk = $125.00

 

I can see some situations where I'd use a Lithium battery, but they are not worth their weight in gold. Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each. That would be $21.11 a piece! I think they're already expensive enough.

 

For extended backpacking trips - use the lithiums. For 99.999% of GeoCaching situations - I'll take the NiMH rechargables.

 

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WJJagFan

[Guest WJJagfan]

L>

 

and the same run times: Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH

 

Assuming the NiMH lasts 500 charges you would go through 250 Alks and 83 Liths in that same period of time for total costs of:

• NiHM = $4.33
• Li = $208.32
• Alk = $125.00

 

I can see some situations where I'd use a Lithium battery, but they are not worth their weight in gold. Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each. That would be $21.11 a piece! I think they're already expensive enough.

 

For extended backpacking trips - use the lithiums. For 99.999% of GeoCaching situations - I'll take the NiMH rechargables.

 

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WJJagFan

[Guest prv8eye]

quote:

---

Originally posted by k2dave:

Light weight - carry less weight.

---

 

I find it a little silly that the difference in weight, in comparing tiny little AA batteries, is any kind of consideration at all.

I'm surprised no one brought up the environmental impact of one type of battery over the other. Guess there aren't many tree huggers in Geocaching .

 

Gus Morrow

Oceanside, CA

[Guest sidewinder]

i just bought some e2 liths for hunting in the cold weather here in montana. never had any problems with alks but made darn sure that everytime i started out that their were fresh batts in the gps and carried fresh ones along. not many stores selling batts out in the woods no matter how bad you need them. you are right about the display as it gets pretty sluggish when below zero and you have the unit on the outside of your clothing

[Guest Dnmeistr]

Am I just completely missing the boat here. You guys are saying that "Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH", I do not know how that can be. With my Minolta Dimage 5 I use NiMH AA 1600 cells and they last about 2 hours on a charge where as Alkalines last maybe 10 minutes I don't know why Minolta even bothers including Alkalines with the camera

 

Dnmeistr

[Guest peter]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dnmeistr:

Am I just completely missing the boat here. You guys are saying that "Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH", I do not know how that can be. With my Minolta Dimage 5 I use NiMH AA 1600 cells and they last about 2 hours on a charge where as Alkalines last maybe 10 minutes

---

 

Part of the confusion comes because the standard mA-hr ratings of batteries is based on a very low discharge rate of 25 mA.

OTOH, many of the advertising claims are based on performance based on greater discharge rates, where cells with low internal resistance, like NiMH and Li do much better than high resistance alkaline cells. At the 25 mA rate, both Li and standard alkaline cells have a rating of about 2900 mA-hr, or almost double the typical 1600 mA-hr of NiMH. But in high current applications, like your Minolta, the alkaline only produces a small fraction of that capacity. So the Li cells last several times as long for that application. But the claim above that results in Li having 6x the capacity of NiMH is false since it's based on Li being 3x as good as alkaline at high current draws while alkaline is twice as good as NiMH at low current draws. In reality, Li is a bit less than double the capacity of NiMH at both high and low current draws. The actual performance at different current draws might be about like this:

High current (~ 1 A); many dig. cameras

Li 2500 mAhr

NiMH 1400 mAhr

Alk. 700 mAhr

 

Med. current (~150 mA); typ. GPS rcvr.

Li 2800 mAhr

NiMH 1500 mAhr

Alk. 1900 mAhr

 

Low current (25 mA); walkman radio

Li 2950 mAhr

NiMH 1600 mAhr

Alk. 2850 mAhr

[Guest peter]

on a very low discharge rate of 25 mA.

OTOH, many of the advertising claims are based on performance based on greater discharge rates, where cells with low internal resistance, like NiMH and Li do much better than high resistance alkaline cells. At the 25 mA rate, both Li and standard alkaline cells have a rating of about 2900 mA-hr, or almost double the typical 1600 mA-hr of NiMH. But in high current applications, like your Minolta, the alkaline only produces a small fraction of that capacity. So the Li cells last several times as long for that application. But the claim above that results in Li having 6x the capacity of NiMH is false since it's based on Li being 3x as good as alkaline at high current draws while alkaline is twice as good as NiMH at low current draws. In reality, Li is a bit less than double the capacity of NiMH at both high and low current draws. The actual performance at different current draws might be about like this:

High current (~ 1 A); many dig. cameras

Li 2500 mAhr

NiMH 1400 mAhr

Alk. 700 mAhr

 

Med. current (~150 mA); typ. GPS rcvr.

Li 2800 mAhr

NiMH 1500 mAhr

Alk. 1900 mAhr

 

Low current (25 mA); walkman radio

Li 2950 mAhr

NiMH 1600 mAhr

Alk. 2850 mAhr

[Guest Dnmeistr]

Well that explains it, thanks

 

Dnmeistr

[Guest Dnmeistr]

Well that explains it, thanks

 

Dnmeistr

[Guest LarsThorwald]

REI.com has 'em.

[Guest YaesuMan]

yea! for batteries!

 

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I do radio.

Anything that is radio.

Yes, GPS is radio.

GO HAM RADIO!

[Guest Buck8Point]

For me, I find the Lithium batteries to be the way to go for simply these reasons.

 

1-The cost dont bother me. Its all part of the game. If I was so frugal as to worry myself constantly about battery cost in my Vista, I just as soon give up caching all together. On a typical Caching run I spend 30bucks on a tank of gass to go caching, 10bucks on food, and drinks and such. and while payin a bit more, my Lithium Batteries Last and Last and Last... Any way you look at it it Caching to me is Good, Clean, Cheap Entertainment. it gets you out in the great outdoors, and takes you to beautiful places you probably have never been to.

 

2-I rather be out caching, and actually using my batteries, than spending hours on end sitting here, speculating about which battery is best, and comparing volumes of statistical data to prove nothing, when in fact, its all just a matter of personal preference.

 

3-Who cares what batteries a person uses in What brand of reciever anyways? If it gets you to the cache, and back, in my book it works just fine. Thats why I CHOOSE to use the Energizer e2 Lithiums in my Garmin eTrex Vista.

 

 

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Buck8Point

"If I can't fix it, It's definately Broke."

[Guest VentureForth]

quote:

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Originally posted by WJJagfan:

Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each.

---

 

If you can find me some gold for 42.22 an ounce, I want to buy a pound today!

 

NYSE just listed today's close at $292 an ounce. So, these batteries don't quite cost $146, therefore they are not worth their weight in gold.

 

 

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VentureForth out to the wild, wet forest...

[Guest VentureForth]

quote:

---

Originally posted by WJJagfan:

Gold is currently $42.22 per oz. and according to backpacker.com e2 lithiums weight 1/2 oz. each.

---

 

If you can find me some gold for 42.22 an ounce, I want to buy a pound today!

 

NYSE just listed today's close at $292 an ounce. So, these batteries don't quite cost $146, therefore they are not worth their weight in gold.

 

 

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VentureForth out to the wild, wet forest...

[Guest Rich in NEPA]

quote:

---

Originally posted by VentureForth:

So, these batteries don't quite cost $146, therefore they are not worth their weight in gold.

---

 

figure of speech (figyr uv spech)n.pl. figures of speech. An expression such as a metaphor or simile or a device such as personification or hyperbole in which words are used in a nonliteral way to achieve an effect beyond the range of ordinary language.

 

---------------------------------------------------------

Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary

Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

 

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~Rich in NEPA~

 

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? A man with a GPS receiver knows where he is; a man with two GPS receivers is never sure. ?

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[Guest madphatboy2]

rich,

sometimes it's hard to tell if your joking, or if you just don't understand when someone else is joking. *scratches head* Can you maybe start putting smilies when you are? You know, like this and this (oh, by the way )

 

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MPB2

 

I wander from here to there looking for. . .my mind? And then I find it in the cache.

[Guest madphatboy2]

rich,

sometimes it's hard to tell if your joking, or if you just don't understand when someone else is joking. *scratches head* Can you maybe start putting smilies when you are? You know, like this and this (oh, by the way )

 

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MPB2

 

I wander from here to there looking for. . .my mind? And then I find it in the cache.

[Guest george71]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dnmeistr:

Am I just completely missing the boat here. You guys are saying that "Li 3x Alk which is 2x NiMH", I do not know how that can be. With my Minolta Dimage 5 I use NiMH AA 1600 cells and they last about 2 hours on a charge where as Alkalines last maybe 10 minutes I don't know why Minolta even bothers including Alkalines with the camera

 

Dnmeistr

---

 

I get the same results in my digital camera. NiMh batterys last twice at least twice as long as Alkalines. I just keep sets up rechargables and don't worry about the weight.