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Bill93

New York City monuments

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A recent blog discusses the early 1800's layout of Manhattan. Ok, they're cadastral and not geodetic, but are a lot older than the bronze disks we usually see.

 

Richard "Papa-Bear-NYC" may have mentioned these when he was active here (I don't remember for sure) as he was very active around there.

 

Another article on New York by the guy who later became the head surveyor of the new World Trade Center.

http://www.pobonline.com/articles/89732-web-exclusive-the-xs-and-ys-of-the-big-apple

 

An interesting quote from that article:

In the greater New York City vicinity, there are, by my count, at least 13 coordinate systems and seven elevation datums all pre-dating the state plane coordinate systems and the national vertical datums.

Edited by Bill93

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A recent blog discusses the early 1800's layout of Manhattan. Ok, they're cadastral and not geodetic, but are a lot older than the bronze disks we usually see.

 

Richard "Papa-Bear-NYC" may have mentioned these when he was active here (I don't remember for sure) as he was very active around there.

 

...

 

 

Did I hear my name mentioned? Yes, I'm still alive and well and I check in here from time to time.

 

I've mentioned a couple of the bolt's on my web site, one of which is known to the cognoscenti, the other not.

 

Check this page I wrote in 2010: The City and the Park which shows them. I do not publish the location of the second one for obvious reason (vandalism, souvenir hunting, etc.). And far as I know I am the only one who has ever found it, and it has not been seen by anyone but folks I have brought there.

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, but these things are possibly among the rarist of relics in the city full of relics.

 

Feel free to contact me off line.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC

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...

Feel free to contact me off line.

 

To elaborate: if you plan to be in NYC some time and are serious about the protection of these artifacts and have a half day available for some exploring, including fairly rugged territory, feel free to contact me.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC

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Papa-Bear!

Glad to see you are still around. I may take you up on that offer to see the Randall monument next time I am in the city. There was a show about Manhattan a number of years ago that featured the city map folks "finding" one of the square bolts. I thought of you immediately and have always wanted to see it, but when you take your wife to the city it is hard to get her to crawl on boulders in Central Park.

 

As for anyone else considering taking a day with Papa-Bear in NYC, all I can say is "do it!" I spent a great day with him in lower Manhattan looking for old marks. He is a fountain of NYC knowledge and a great co-hunter.

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Yes, I remember that show. As you may have guessed, it was staged. I know those guys (although I didn't know them then). The true story is in an excellent book which came out a couple of years ago: The Measure of Manhattan by Marguerite Holloway.

 

Just give me some notice and it will be nice to see you again.

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This article on the New Yorker web page appeared yesterday:

 

Unearthing the City Grid That Would Have Been in Central Park by Marguerite Holloway.

 

Marguerite Holloway, who wrote the book I mentioned in the previous post, together with the surveyor Lemuel Morrison, was with me from day one when we recognized and got the ball rolling on validating and protecting the first in situ Randel marble monument found in the city. A well written article and she gives me a nice plug.

 

The project team subsequently found 3 more monuments and one more bolt. I myself know the location of just the first one, not those subsequently found, and the information on that location is embargoed until the park decides how to protect the monument. So no, I can't show it to you. Sorry.

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC

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In Erie County, PA, ND0178(LIGHTHOUSE) has been protected with what appears to be plexiglass set in metal. You can only see the disk when weather conditions are right, since there is often condensation covering the inside of the glass. Such a solution probably wouldn't work for one of the Central Park bolts, but I would certainly love to see one of them someday!d737e30e-90b8-4caf-ab72-10c7dfdc254c.jpg

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In Erie County, PA, ND0178(LIGHTHOUSE) has been protected with what appears to be plexiglass set in metal.

 

..at least they didn't pave over ND0178 - here's a view of the housing - only one like this I've ever seen:

d5125145-f74e-4834-b457-7310b54a346c.jpg

 

While looking for a previously unfound RM, I got to talk with the Lighthouse Keeper about these marks. I reeeally thought about asking if I could try to pry that cover off to get a clear photo, but I was afraid I'd crack it. Did find the RM, though!

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