"What changed" pocket query

[team tisri]

Following on from this thread requesting enhancements to pocket queries I figured I'd start a new thread with my own request.

 

It would be really nice to be able to see only caches that changed status in the last few days. That would include caches published, enabled, disabled or archived. Perhaps it could also include caches that had had their "Needs Maintenance" flag set or cleared as well.

 

At present I run a "1000 unfound caches closest to home" every day and feed it into software to maintain my own list of caches. If a cache disappears from the list it gets flagged so I can check to see if it's been archived.

 

Being able to run my query once a week and have a daily feed of what has changed during the day would be useful - it would mean archived caches could be removed from my list almost instantly and I wouldn't need to download 1000 caches to find which ones had been added or removed.

 

For good measure it could save Groundspeak a load of bandwidth as I wouldn't be downloading such a large file every day.

 

Would anyone else find this useful?

[+MAntunes]

It's something like "incremental backup" concept.

 

I think yes, it seems useful. It will save bandwidth but use more compute time - to filter those caches with the attribute "changed since last pocket query" on. Weighing these two resources - bandwidth and compute power - I think your suggestion has chances.

[team tisri]

It's something like "incremental backup" concept.

 

Exactly.

 

I think yes, it seems useful. It will save bandwidth but use more compute time - to filter those caches with the attribute "changed since last pocket query" on. Weighing these two resources - bandwidth and compute power - I think your suggestion has chances.

 

I'm not sure it would be hugely different to the "found within the last X days" option - if there's already something in place to look for a Found log within a designated period it would just need to be changed to include different log types - specifically Published, Archived, Unarchived, Needs Maintenance, Owner Maintenance, Enable, Disable.

[+tozainamboku]

The main issue with this suggestion has always been the list of caches that were archived.

 

In the current system when a cache is archived (or retracted) it becomes invisible the PQ system. These caches never appear in a PQ (with the exception of the My Finds query).

 

An incremental system would have to have special handling for archived caches. Would only archived in the last 7 days be listed or would you go back further? What information would be posted for archived caches? TPTB are reluctant to provide archived cache information because often when a cache is archived they are asked by the land manager to remove any ability for these caches to show up in a search.

 

Also, the idea is to limit how many caches a user keep up-to-date in an offline database. By making it harder to keep large offline databases up-to-date, Groundspeak is protecting their interests. Individuals are encouraged to have a premium membership and down load the the latest pocket queries just before searching, instead of sharing a friend PQs (in violation of the licensing agreement) that may be out-of-date. People who need the latest data from a large area that can't be covered with the 5000 caches you can download each day, are encouraged to use a smartphone app.

[team tisri]

The main issue with this suggestion has always been the list of caches that were archived.

 

In the current system when a cache is archived (or retracted) it becomes invisible the PQ system. These caches never appear in a PQ (with the exception of the My Finds query).

 

An incremental system would have to have special handling for archived caches. Would only archived in the last 7 days be listed or would you go back further? What information would be posted for archived caches? TPTB are reluctant to provide archived cache information because often when a cache is archived they are asked by the land manager to remove any ability for these caches to show up in a search.

 

I'd say going back 7 days is more than enough, it would mean we could run a weekly query to show us caches and a daily update to show what had changed.

 

For an archived cache all I'd want to see was that it had been archived, with maybe the Archived log. The only purpose is to remove it from my list of active caches.

 

Also, the idea is to limit how many caches a user keep up-to-date in an offline database. By making it harder to keep large offline databases up-to-date, Groundspeak is protecting their interests. Individuals are encouraged to have a premium membership and down load the the latest pocket queries just before searching, instead of sharing a friend PQs (in violation of the licensing agreement) that may be out-of-date. People who need the latest data from a large area that can't be covered with the 5000 caches you can download each day, are encouraged to use a smartphone app.

 

The popularity of GSAK and other apps suggest to me that Groundspeak aren't overly bothered by people keeping their own offline databases. Downloading a pocket query just before searching doesn't work for people going away from home, and smartphone apps are all well and good as long as someone has a smartphone, a data connection, and is caching in an area with data coverage.

 

The reality is that a large number of geocachers do keep their own offline databases and it would save Groundspeak bandwidth if they could simply provide a list of caches that have been archived. Otherwise what I do when I see caches disappearing from my list is load the cache page to see if they have been archived. Not only is it a slow manual process, it means I'm downloading an entire cache page with maps, graphics and all just to find out if it has been archived or not.

[+tozainamboku]

I'd say going back 7 days is more than enough, it would mean we could run a weekly query to show us caches and a daily update to show what had changed.

 

For an archived cache all I'd want to see was that it had been archived, with maybe the Archived log. The only purpose is to remove it from my list of active caches.

As soon you had a incremental pocket query, you would have someone forget to download one week, or perhaps they were out of town. The would then be stuck trying to figure out what caches were archived the week they missed. So I suspect there will be a request then to show all archived caches going back to a specific date.

 

It might be possible to show only limited information for archived caches but that involves a change to the GPX schema and would likely break some applications. GSAK may work (and if it didn't I've no doubt a update would soon be available). But Groundspeak isn't just providing PQs for GSAK users.

 

Adding archived caches to PQs is not trivial.

 

The popularity of GSAK and other apps suggest to me that Groundspeak aren't overly bothered by people keeping their own offline databases. Downloading a pocket query just before searching doesn't work for people going away from home, and smartphone apps are all well and good as long as someone has a smartphone, a data connection, and is caching in an area with data coverage.

 

The reality is that a large number of geocachers do keep their own offline databases and it would save Groundspeak bandwidth if they could simply provide a list of caches that have been archived. Otherwise what I do when I see caches disappearing from my list is load the cache page to see if they have been archived. Not only is it a slow manual process, it means I'm downloading an entire cache page with maps, graphics and all just to find out if it has been archived or not.

I don't think Groundspeak is worried about bandwidth. They are more concerned with the ability to abuse the system. If it became easy to keep a database of California, for example, up-to-date, there is a increased chance that a person with this database may start sharing it (possibly even for a charge) with people who have exhausted their PQ allotment or perhaps are not even premium members. Of course PQs can be shared now, put the number of people who might be interested in the caches you can keep up-to-date is far smaller so there is less temptation.

 

BTW, with GSAK I have no problem with archived caches. My PQs are split into groups covering different (sometimes overlapping) areas; but each of these the groups return all the caches in that area using the date placed method. I have a macro that downloads PQs in a group, loads them into my GSAK database, and then does a refresh on all the caches that didn't get updated. These are almost always the archived or retracted caches, but occasionally the latest PQ exceeds 1000 cache and a few caches get missed. [Actually the macro is more selective - it automatically refreshes caches that I've found, and then lets me select from the remaining whether to refresh the cache or delete it from my GSAK database.] I can actually save Groundspeak bandwidth by only running the groups I need, though most groups now have more than 5 PQs so it takes two days to run them.

[+GeekinTX]

I use the "Updated in the last 7 days" pocket query attribute to download updated listings - on a daily basis. So clearly when something changes, I get it 6 or 7 times, much more than I need, but I certainly don't have to worry if I miss a day and allow the next one to overwrite it. I also have an alert set up for caches that have been archived within my search radius, and I look those into my database one-by-one. In addition, once a week, I download all active caches in my search radius. To help with archived caches I may have missed, my startup GSAK macro lists entries that haven't been updated in 8 days, and give me the option to delete those "stale" caches. This seems to keep me up to date pretty well.

 

With all that said, a "updated in the last 2-3 days" that included archived caches would be very helpful, I think.

[team tisri]

I'd say going back 7 days is more than enough, it would mean we could run a weekly query to show us caches and a daily update to show what had changed.

 

For an archived cache all I'd want to see was that it had been archived, with maybe the Archived log. The only purpose is to remove it from my list of active caches.

As soon you had a incremental pocket query, you would have someone forget to download one week, or perhaps they were out of town. The would then be stuck trying to figure out what caches were archived the week they missed. So I suspect there will be a request then to show all archived caches going back to a specific date.

 

It might be possible to show only limited information for archived caches but that involves a change to the GPX schema and would likely break some applications. GSAK may work (and if it didn't I've no doubt a update would soon be available). But Groundspeak isn't just providing PQs for GSAK users.

 

If someone forgets to run a query they get to deal with any issues that causes them. It wouldn't cause a change to the schema at all - it already includes attributes called, IIRC, "archived" and "active". Download your My Finds Pocket Query and it already includes archived caches.

 

Adding archived caches to PQs is not trivial.

 

I think it would be trivial, as the schema already supports archived caches.

 

I don't think Groundspeak is worried about bandwidth. They are more concerned with the ability to abuse the system. If it became easy to keep a database of California, for example, up-to-date, there is a increased chance that a person with this database may start sharing it (possibly even for a charge) with people who have exhausted their PQ allotment or perhaps are not even premium members. Of course PQs can be shared now, put the number of people who might be interested in the caches you can keep up-to-date is far smaller so there is less temptation.

 

BTW, with GSAK I have no problem with archived caches. My PQs are split into groups covering different (sometimes overlapping) areas; but each of these the groups return all the caches in that area using the date placed method. I have a macro that downloads PQs in a group, loads them into my GSAK database, and then does a refresh on all the caches that didn't get updated. These are almost always the archived or retracted caches, but occasionally the latest PQ exceeds 1000 cache and a few caches get missed. [Actually the macro is more selective - it automatically refreshes caches that I've found, and then lets me select from the remaining whether to refresh the cache or delete it from my GSAK database.] I can actually save Groundspeak bandwidth by only running the groups I need, though most groups now have more than 5 PQs so it takes two days to run them.

 

The system can already be abused as there's already nothing to stop a few people clubbing together and sharing PQs to build up a large area and there's nothing to stop those few people then selling on the information.

 

My own software tags caches that haven't been update so I can see them, then I can check them to find out if they are archived. It's just a slow process that would be much easier if a single pocket query could tag them all, just like it includes disabled caches so I can mark them as disabled in my database.