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Exactly how do I do this?


Nat Sherman

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Hi all,

 

Have been geocaching for about 5 months now and have almost 500 finds and soon to be 12 hides. Just wondering if someone can explain what is involved in finding Benchmarks (where are they listed, are they logged just like a geocache, what is involved in recording a find, etc.).

 

Thanks for your help!

Nat Sherman

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Hi Nat,

 

Welcome!

 

Here is the link that explains Benchmarks (For whatever reason, Geocaching recently moved the link location to the very bottom of the main page so that it is harder to find).

Benchmarking FAQ

 

Have a look at that page and then feel free to post any questions. The folks here are a friendly and helpful bunch.

 

Good luck with your Benchmarking.

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Hi Nat,

 

Welcome!

 

Here is the link that explains Benchmarks (For whatever reason, Geocaching recently moved the link location to the very bottom of the main page so that it is harder to find).

Benchmarking FAQ

 

Have a look at that page and then feel free to post any questions. The folks here are a friendly and helpful bunch.

 

Good luck with your Benchmarking.

 

Excellent...thank you!

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I saw this post and figured I would add some notes of my own.

 

I know the FAQ mentions this, but I figured it warrants repeating: Benchmarks may well be on private property, so if you want to hunt for a benchmark that is on private property then you should try and get permission from the land owner. Some benchmarks may be in areas that aren't really accessible too. (Like on the side of a highway.)

 

The FAQ mentions BMGPX, but I highly recommend NGS>GPX instead. It is available here:

http://ngs.tsqmadness.com/help/index.html

It can process datasheets downloaded from the NGS website into Pocket Query type GPX files. And does a better job then BMGPX. (Don't know if BMGPX will even work with the newest datasheet revisions.) I use datasheets from the NGS rather then stuff from the Geocaching.com site since the database here is about 11-12 years out of date. A lot of the marks I've found are not on this site because they are relatively new.

 

Some other useful sites.

 

Google Maps benchmark viewer:

http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/

 

Benchmarks and My Topo overlay for Google Earth:

http://ngs.tsqmadness.com/ge/index.html

 

GSAK:

http://www.gsak.net/

Not only is this program good for organizing Geocaches, you can organize your benchmarks in one or more separate databases. (I like to download the state monthly archive file and then download additional files for specific counties I'm interested in to make sure my data is up to date. I use one database per state for benchmarks.) The only downside is the program is not free. But you can try it out for free.

 

If you have an Android phone, there is a thread for a beta benchmarking app you might be interested in.

 

On the subject of what it's like actually searching for a mark, it can be quite a bit different then hunting for a Geocache because the marks are often set in the ground flush with the surface, which means that the grass alone can be enough to hide a benchmark from casual view. Benchmarks with witness posts are a big plus because the witness post (assuming it's still intact) should make it a lot easier to find the benchmark. Once you know what your local witness posts look like, if you are a passenger in a car with sharp eyes you may even be able to spot witness posts for highway benchmarks even though you can't stop and go find the actual disc. :) (Just seeing the witness post doesn't really warrant a log though. Especially as sometimes a gas line marker or something else might be mistaken for a survey marker witness post.)

Edited by EdrickV
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Thanks, EdrickV! Great information! I checked online at a few of the closest Benchmarks to my current location and it looks like all of them are on private property along a Norfolk Southern Railway line. This looks like it's going to be more difficult than I at first thought!

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Thanks, EdrickV! Great information! I checked online at a few of the closest Benchmarks to my current location and it looks like all of them are on private property along a Norfolk Southern Railway line. This looks like it's going to be more difficult than I at first thought!

 

I know how that goes, the railroad ones near me likely aren't even around anymore as the tracks were pulled out. Though there may be some that still exist along a section of the old railroad that's been turned into a rail trail. There have been newer marks placed, one of which I went and found, but they're not on this site and the one I found locally is new enough that it probably doesn't need an official recovery report. Some of the most interesting benchmarks I've found were found when on vacation.

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The FAQ mentions BMGPX, but I highly recommend NGS>GPX instead. It is available here:

http://ngs.tsqmadness.com/help/index.html

It can process datasheets downloaded from the NGS website into Pocket Query type GPX files. And does a better job then BMGPX. (Don't know if BMGPX will even work with the newest datasheet revisions.) I use datasheets from the NGS rather then stuff from the Geocaching.com site since the database here is about 11-12 years out of date. A lot of the marks I've found are not on this site because they are relatively new.

 

Not only is this program good for organizing Geocaches, you can organize your benchmarks in one or more separate databases. (I like to download the state monthly archive file and then download additional files for specific counties I'm interested in to make sure my data is up to date. I use one database per state for benchmarks.) The only downside is the program is not free. But you can try it out for free.

 

EdrickV,

 

Couple more questions...seems the more I understand something about this the more questions it prompts haha!

 

Okay, I downloaded the NSG>GPX program. Am I correct in understand you to say that this program is going to enable me to take a datasheet and convert it to a GPX file which is what GSAK can read?

 

But where do I get the datasheets? You mentioned that you download an entire county at once. Not sure where/how to do that. I'm currently in Hamilton County in Tennessee (Chattanooga) and would like to have a list of all benchmarks in the county in my GSAK so I can find them using CacheSense on my Blackberry while I'm out geocaching.

 

Where do I go from here to accomplish that?

 

PS By the way, today I found a benchmark on a RR concrete pillar, on the side of a building, and inside a building! Pretty cool.

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NGS>GPX takes datasheets (in text file format) and turns them into the benchmark equivalent of a Pocket Query.

 

You get the datasheets from the NGS website here:

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/datasheet.prl

 

The Archived Datasheets button eventually takes you to a page where you can download an entire state's worth of datasheets in a zipped text file. The datasheets may not be totally up to date, depending on when the file was uploaded. (Used to be they made yearly archives, now it's pretty much monthly.) You can get an entire state's worth of datasheets loaded pretty quickly that way, though some larger states (like CA) may need the text file to be split into 2 parts for the current version of NGS>GPX to handle it. (I used a hex editor, XVI32, to do that since it is designed to easily handle large files.)

 

The Datasheets button will take you to a page with multiple methods of retrieving one or more datasheets. County is one of the easy ways to do it if you know what county you want. (And if you don't know what county a certain area is, the Benchmark Viewer site is a handy tool. It's also useful to figure out where a bunch of benchmarks are in relation to a specific point.)

 

Benchmark Viewer:

http://benchmarks.scaredycatfilms.com/

 

As a sidenote, the Benchmark viewer has a My Topo view, which may show benchmarks that aren't in the NGS database. (I found a benchmark like that by accident once, and now happened to see one near me that I might try finding, since it doesn't seem to be either in the current NGS database or the Destroyed marks database for my county. Going to check for non-publishable marks next to see if it actually has coordinates. (Judging by the symbol on the My Topo map and USGS symbol legend, it seems to be a horizontal control with 3rd order or better elevation.)

 

Edit: Note that downloading datasheets by county actually means loading the datasheets as one huge text file in your web browser and saving it into a text file. (I usually copy/paste into Notepad rather then save directly from the browser.)

Edited by EdrickV
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Thanks you! Managed to do what you've written and converted the Hamilton County datasheet to GPX and downloaded into GSAK. Had to then manually edit each benchmark I've found to show "found" and the date found.

 

Next question (you knew it was coming), when BadgeGen calculates the badges for my stats page, it still shows benchmarks found as zero, rather than 10. Is there a different macro that I need to install and run other than FindStatGen and BadgeGen so that my benchmarks are included?

 

Thanks, again!

Mike

(Nat Sherman)

 

One more question. Let's say I'm going to go through this process for a second county. When I convert this second county datasheet list to GPX and download into GSAK, will it erase the first county I've input?

Edited by Nat Sherman
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One more question. Let's say I'm going to go through this process for a second county. When I convert this second county datasheet list to GPX and download into GSAK, will it erase the first county I've input?

 

I prefer to save each county as a separate database. You can do this by clicking the 'Database' button at the top and selecting the 'Save As' choice and give the database the name of the county you are saving. Less hassle when it is time to load the GPSr, since you can often load a whole county as a single file in the GPSr. A large file will require splitting a database (I normally split it North and South) because the GPSr limits how many marks can be in a single file in its active memory.

 

If you just drag and drop the GPX file onto GSAK when a database is open it will add the new GPX file to the existing database. I prefer to keep the default database empty and drag and drop the new GPX file there and then decide if I want to combine it with another database or just save it as its own database.

 

John

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The differences in GSAK/GPS loading are interesting. One of the reasons I do a database for each state is I sometimes use a Garmin Nuvi and, via a POI macro, can load the entire state's worth of benchmarks onto the NUVI. (with full datasheets) That is nice for spontaneous benchmark hunting, when the Nuvi is available. My normal Geocaching/Benchmarking app (Cachebox for Windows Mobile) allows multiple databases so I have yet to find any practical limits on the number of locations I can store. I do know that larger databases take longer to load and so I limit my benchmark databases by radius in GSAK to around 500-600 benchmarks, though I may change that a bit. (For pocket queries I load a lot more with my local area having two overlapping pocket queries, but they don't have big datasheets and thus are smaller individually.) For a database of possible PLSS mark locations that I created from a PLSS grid shapefile, I've got 4084 individual waypoints, but they don't have any description/log info so that database is actually rather small compared to the others. (I just wish I had a Windows Mobile phone/PDA with a better GPS, but the phone line was discontinued in favor of Windows Phone 7 and the Windows Mobile PDA line only seem to exist now as specialized hardware systems (say U-verse DVRs) and professional surveyor GPS system field terminals.)

 

The POI macro I use (one of two Nuvi macros for GSAK) may actually work with other Garmin GPS units that can load POIs too, I'm thinking I might in the future get an Etrex 30 and load benchmarks onto it via the POI method rather then as Geocaches.

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The differences in GSAK/GPS loading are interesting. One of the reasons I do a database for each state is I sometimes use a Garmin Nuvi and, via a POI macro, can load the entire state's worth of benchmarks onto the NUVI. (with full datasheets) That is nice for spontaneous benchmark hunting, when the Nuvi is available. My normal Geocaching/Benchmarking app (Cachebox for Windows Mobile) allows multiple databases so I have yet to find any practical limits on the number of locations I can store. I do know that larger databases take longer to load and so I limit my benchmark databases by radius in GSAK to around 500-600 benchmarks, though I may change that a bit. (For pocket queries I load a lot more with my local area having two overlapping pocket queries, but they don't have big datasheets and thus are smaller individually.) For a database of possible PLSS mark locations that I created from a PLSS grid shapefile, I've got 4084 individual waypoints, but they don't have any description/log info so that database is actually rather small compared to the others. (I just wish I had a Windows Mobile phone/PDA with a better GPS, but the phone line was discontinued in favor of Windows Phone 7 and the Windows Mobile PDA line only seem to exist now as specialized hardware systems (say U-verse DVRs) and professional surveyor GPS system field terminals.)

 

The POI macro I use (one of two Nuvi macros for GSAK) may actually work with other Garmin GPS units that can load POIs too, I'm thinking I might in the future get an Etrex 30 and load benchmarks onto it via the POI method rather then as Geocaches.

 

The Nuvi is great for drive by benchmarking, but how does it actually work where the marks are off the road and where there is no cell service for a phone? How does it do when navigating cross country?

 

I have in excess of 10,000 marks on my Delorme GPSr with each file limited to about 700 - 750 datasheets, all the counties that we normally venture to on weekends and vacations even.

 

No need to go to excess and load every mark if you are not going to be in that area. Why have 50,000 marks loaded if you will never go there to hunt them?

 

Look at the areas you want to find benchmarks in and you will actually visit and use that as your guide as to how many marks to load into GSAK and your GPSr. Start close to home and learn to read the terrain and how it ties into the datasheet description. Don't go overboard getting all that unneeded information for marks that you will never hunt. Instead learn to use GSAK and the mapping programs available (Delorme has a good program that we have used for a couple of years now) and the GPSr. Once you learn these things then move on to other areas where you may wish to vacation (if you are married, hopefully your partner will also enjoy benchmarking).

 

Don't try to get to much info and get burnt-out from overload.

 

John

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
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Excellent advice, John! Thanks to both you and EdrickV, I'm slowly on my way. Have datasheets for 2 counties where I know I'll be for a short while at least, both loaded into GSAK, and figured out how to get BadgeGen to recognize the benchmarks I've found.

 

Last question (for a day at least ;)

 

What is the difference in a Waymarker and a Benchmarker? I just noticed that BadgeGen awards badges for both but not sure what a Waymarker is.

 

Thanks, again, guys!

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Hi Nat,

 

The Waymarker is someone who either catalogs interesting places around the world or goes and finds those Waymarks that others have posted. Waymarking.com was intended to appease the people who loved the locationless and virtual caches that used to be prevalent on GC.com. There is an area where disks are that are not in the GC database.

 

Benchmarkers are avid hobbyists who love going out and finding disks/chiseled marks/drill holes/bolts/nails/etc. that are listed in the GC database that GC got from the NGS many moons ago. Some even send in reports to the NGS also. Others of us are completely happy to have the surveyors come to this site to see our logs and pictures. Also, Dave D (who is the Head Surveyor of the NGS comes to get pictures from our logs to place on their site.

 

I hope that clarifies things a little. You can go to the Waymarking site and see what you think of it.

 

Shirley - the other half of the 2oldfarts.

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The Nuvi is great for drive by benchmarking, but how does it actually work where the marks are off the road and where there is no cell service for a phone? How does it do when navigating cross country?

 

I have in excess of 10,000 marks on my Delorme GPSr with each file limited to about 700 - 750 datasheets, all the counties that we normally venture to on weekends and vacations even.

 

No need to go to excess and load every mark if you are not going to be in that area. Why have 50,000 marks loaded if you will never go there to hunt them?

 

Look at the areas you want to find benchmarks in and you will actually visit and use that as your guide as to how many marks to load into GSAK and your GPSr. Start close to home and learn to read the terrain and how it ties into the datasheet description. Don't go overboard getting all that unneeded information for marks that you will never hunt. Instead learn to use GSAK and the mapping programs available (Delorme has a good program that we have used for a couple of years now) and the GPSr. Once you learn these things then move on to other areas where you may wish to vacation (if you are married, hopefully your partner will also enjoy benchmarking).

 

Don't try to get to much info and get burnt-out from overload.

 

John

 

The Nuvi is not a phone, just a portable GPS you would normally use to navigate in a car, so cell phone coverage doesn't mean anything. (It is a Nuvi 1300LM to be specific.) Since it has a pedestrian mode that I configured for off-road navigation (aka straight line navigation) it works alright for actually finding Geocaches/Benchmarks. (It is what I started Geocaching with.) It also has a Star III high sensitivity receiver, which is likely better then the GPS receiver in my AT&T Tilt. (My Tilt, when Geocaching/Benchmarking, isn't bothered by lack of cell phone service since the app I use loads Pocket Queries and I pre-load maps via a couple different methods.)

 

There are multiple reasons why I preload a whole state's worth of Benchmarks on the Nuvi.

1. I don't actually own the Nuvi, and thus don't have access to it most of the time. So I can't just load stuff on it whenever I want to.

2. On trips I am usually a passenger and not the one who decides what way to go to get there. (For example, for one place that we go to fairly often about 3 hours away, there are multiple ways we use to get there, and I don't think they usually decide what method to use till we're in the car leaving.) On one occasion we decided to check out a certain museum on the way and, after we were done with the museum, I checked on the Nuvi and there happened to be a benchmark just across the street. If I hadn't preloaded the state wide file before hand, I wouldn't have had any data on it. (I don't think I had my Tilt then, but even if I did I wouldn't have had it loaded on the Tilt and also would not have had detailed maps loaded on the tilt for that area, unless there happened to be a Geocache nearby.)

3. Loading the statewide file, using athe Nuvi macro and the method I use, it's easier and quicker to just do it once. (At the moment I only have one state's worth loaded, which for my state is about 20,000. (Which is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of POIs that come with City Navigator.) Because of the way I have my Benchmarks setup for my phone in GSAK, and the fact that I sometimes load Geocaches on the Nuvi too, I do some file renaming after creating the POI Loader ready GPX files but before turning them into a POI GPI file. (Though now I've got a batch file to automate that.)

4. NDS>GPX and GSAK do not have anything similar to the "Caches on a route" feature of Geocaching.com, so to do something similar would require doing a whole bunch of filters specific points along the route and either combining all those results into one filter/databa ose to turn into a GPI file or make multiple GPI files. That would take a lot more time, and would be hard to do if going somewhere on short notice. (Especially since at the most likely area I'd be doing benchmark hunting, I have no internet access.)

 

I think I know GSAK pretty well and actually do make smaller search areas for places I expect to be which I load onto my phone, but once I'm out of the areas they cover I don't have anything. (I know trying to load the entire state file into my phone won't work, and even if I could get it all in there it would take forever to open that database.) I also use custom macros to set things like cache type, size, and difficulty to values that provide useful info and which my phone's app can handle. (Cachebox for Windows Mobile doesn't know what a "Benchmark" type is or what "Adjusted" or "Scaled" mean, and it doesn't really like stuff it doesn't understand.) I've also got a macro I use to extract interesting info (Stamping, Setting code/description, Marker type code/description) into custom data fields for sorting/mfilter use.

 

While I don't know much about Delorne GPS units, I know that the Garmin units are limited in the amount of Geocaches they can store in the normal Geocaching mode database. (Loading GPX files into the paperless Geocaching mode, the Etrex 30 can load 2000 caches.) But there is no known limit on the number of POIs that can be loaded. (The City Navigator maps come with 8.5 Million POIs.) Also, for the Nuvi, (which doesn't have a paperless Geocaching mode) loading as POIs via the Nuvi macro is the only way to get the full datasheet.

Edited by EdrickV
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The Nuvi is great for drive by benchmarking, but how does it actually work where the marks are off the road and where there is no cell service for a phone? How does it do when navigating cross country?

 

I have in excess of 10,000 marks on my Delorme GPSr with each file limited to about 700 - 750 datasheets, all the counties that we normally venture to on weekends and vacations even.

 

No need to go to excess and load every mark if you are not going to be in that area. Why have 50,000 marks loaded if you will never go there to hunt them?

 

Look at the areas you want to find benchmarks in and you will actually visit and use that as your guide as to how many marks to load into GSAK and your GPSr. Start close to home and learn to read the terrain and how it ties into the datasheet description. Don't go overboard getting all that unneeded information for marks that you will never hunt. Instead learn to use GSAK and the mapping programs available (Delorme has a good program that we have used for a couple of years now) and the GPSr. Once you learn these things then move on to other areas where you may wish to vacation (if you are married, hopefully your partner will also enjoy benchmarking).

 

Don't try to get to much info and get burnt-out from overload.

 

John

 

The Nuvi is not a phone, just a portable GPS you would normally use to navigate in a car, so cell phone coverage doesn't mean anything. (It is a Nuvi 1300LM to be specific.) Since it has a pedestrian mode that I configured for off-road navigation (aka straight line navigation) it works alright for actually finding Geocaches/Benchmarks. (It is what I started Geocaching with.) It also has a Star III high sensitivity receiver, which is likely better then the GPS receiver in my AT&T Tilt. (My Tilt, when Geocaching/Benchmarking, isn't bothered by lack of cell phone service since the app I use loads Pocket Queries and I pre-load maps via a couple different methods.)

 

There are multiple reasons why I preload a whole state's worth of Benchmarks on the Nuvi.

1. I don't actually own the Nuvi, and thus don't have access to it most of the time. So I can't just load stuff on it whenever I want to.

2. On trips I am usually a passenger and not the one who decides what way to go to get there. (For example, for one place that we go to fairly often about 3 hours away, there are multiple ways we use to get there, and I don't think they usually decide what method to use till we're in the car leaving.) On one occasion we decided to check out a certain museum on the way and, after we were done with the museum, I checked on the Nuvi and there happened to be a benchmark just across the street. If I hadn't preloaded the state wide file before hand, I wouldn't have had any data on it. (I don't think I had my Tilt then, but even if I did I wouldn't have had it loaded on the Tilt and also would not have had detailed maps loaded on the tilt for that area, unless there happened to be a Geocache nearby.)

3. Loading the statewide file, using athe Nuvi macro and the method I use, it's easier and quicker to just do it once. (At the moment I only have one state's worth loaded, which for my state is about 20,000. (Which is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of POIs that come with City Navigator.) Because of the way I have my Benchmarks setup for my phone in GSAK, and the fact that I sometimes load Geocaches on the Nuvi too, I do some file renaming after creating the POI Loader ready GPX files but before turning them into a POI GPI file. (Though now I've got a batch file to automate that.)

4. NDS>GPX and GSAK do not have anything similar to the "Caches on a route" feature of Geocaching.com, so to do something similar would require doing a whole bunch of filters specific points along the route and either combining all those results into one filter/databa ose to turn into a GPI file or make multiple GPI files. That would take a lot more time, and would be hard to do if going somewhere on short notice. (Especially since at the most likely area I'd be doing benchmark hunting, I have no internet access.)

 

I think I know GSAK pretty well and actually do make smaller search areas for places I expect to be which I load onto my phone, but once I'm out of the areas they cover I don't have anything. (I know trying to load the entire state file into my phone won't work, and even if I could get it all in there it would take forever to open that database.) I also use custom macros to set things like cache type, size, and difficulty to values that provide useful info and which my phone's app can handle. (Cachebox for Windows Mobile doesn't know what a "Benchmark" type is or what "Adjusted" or "Scaled" mean, and it doesn't really like stuff it doesn't understand.) I've also got a macro I use to extract interesting info (Stamping, Setting code/description, Marker type code/description) into custom data fields for sorting/mfilter use.

 

While I don't know much about Delorne GPS units, I know that the Garmin units are limited in the amount of Geocaches they can store in the normal Geocaching mode database. (Loading GPX files into the paperless Geocaching mode, the Etrex 30 can load 2000 caches.) But there is no known limit on the number of POIs that can be loaded. (The City Navigator maps come with 8.5 Million POIs.) Also, for the Nuvi, (which doesn't have a paperless Geocaching mode) loading as POIs via the Nuvi macro is the only way to get the full datasheet.

 

The Delorme holds 1000 caches/benchmarks in active memory, with an additional 32GB of space on an SD card for other files and USGS topo maps. With each file holding about 750 marks/caches I can change files in a matter of just a couple of minutes and have all the benchmarks in that area showing on the GPSr (complete with datasheet descriptions). Each file has ALL the benchmark for its area. When you see a benchmark on the GPSr you can view the map and description, and then decide if you want to try for it or pass on it at that time and try for it at a later date.

 

Gsak allows you to do arc/poly filters similar to caches along a route, slice and dice the information in the database according to your whims. If you wish to only search for pre-1950 benchmarks or only chiseled squares, or only bolts, it is all available.

 

With the 4 northern counties of our state there are still over 4000 benchmarks that we haven't found and if you add in the rest of the state it totals 17000 marks. I'd have to be dreaming to believe that I would ever recover that many benchmarks, so I break it down to a sizable file that can be loaded quickly into the active memory of the GPSr, and have all the marks for those areas where we are traveling to.

 

Quick easy and simple.

 

John

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The Delorme holds 1000 caches/benchmarks in active memory, with an additional 32GB of space on an SD card for other files and USGS topo maps. With each file holding about 750 marks/caches I can change files in a matter of just a couple of minutes and have all the benchmarks in that area showing on the GPSr (complete with datasheet descriptions). Each file has ALL the benchmark for its area. When you see a benchmark on the GPSr you can view the map and description, and then decide if you want to try for it or pass on it at that time and try for it at a later date.

 

Gsak allows you to do arc/poly filters similar to caches along a route, slice and dice the information in the database according to your whims. If you wish to only search for pre-1950 benchmarks or only chiseled squares, or only bolts, it is all available.

 

With the 4 northern counties of our state there are still over 4000 benchmarks that we haven't found and if you add in the rest of the state it totals 17000 marks. I'd have to be dreaming to believe that I would ever recover that many benchmarks, so I break it down to a sizable file that can be loaded quickly into the active memory of the GPSr, and have all the marks for those areas where we are traveling to.

 

Quick easy and simple.

 

John

 

The Delorme's file management abilities are a pretty cool feature, and the PN-60 can use 1500 points per GPX file, and topographic maps apparently being included is awesome. But it doesn't have GLONASS or stand-alone TTS & voice navigation support. Would be nice if a GPS existed that had all of those features.

 

As far as number of benchmarks vs how many I might be able to do, the downside to limiting the number of benchmarks put on the device is that you could end up somewhere with an unexpected chance to do benchmark hunting and not have any data on local benchmarks. I had previously passed over the arc/poly filter settings to the point that I'd forgotten about it, and until now never really looked into it and how it works. At first glance it seems like it would take a lot of work (and internet access) to setup a line or whatever that follows a Google Maps route, but I found a way to export a route from Google Maps and import it into GSAK, so I will be using that a lot for my phone in the future. It still requires internet access though which will limit it's usability.

 

If I do get an Etrex 30, I'd still try loading benchmarks as POI files so I can keep them separate from Geocaches, which means I'd probably load state wide files since I just have to load it once per state and it's done. (The Nuvi Macro route does take longer to do then just saving a GPX file from GSAK.) If I got a PN-60 I would have to do more database switching, (aka gpx file loading) but I would be able to do that in the field too which the Etrex 30 can't do. (Though I may have a reasonably portable solution for changing Geocache GPX files on the Etrex in the field.) Not sure what kind of GPS I might get just yet, but it'll be quite a while before I'd have the cash for it anyways and maybe there'll be new models out to look into. (If the PN-60 or Etrex 30 had Bluetooth too that would be awesome, because then I could also use it with my phone.)

 

Whatever GPS I might get, the phone will still be around and will be able to serve as a backup and repository of some other data. Like my list of possible PLSS marker locations. (Over 4000 possible locations in my county alone, most of which won't be accessible unless the automobile becomes obsolete or something, since they're placed in the center of roads. I want to find a section corner marker that's not in the middle of a road, if there are any here.)

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The Delorme holds 1000 caches/benchmarks in active memory, with an additional 32GB of space on an SD card for other files and USGS topo maps. With each file holding about 750 marks/caches I can change files in a matter of just a couple of minutes and have all the benchmarks in that area showing on the GPSr (complete with datasheet descriptions). Each file has ALL the benchmark for its area. When you see a benchmark on the GPSr you can view the map and description, and then decide if you want to try for it or pass on it at that time and try for it at a later date.

 

Gsak allows you to do arc/poly filters similar to caches along a route, slice and dice the information in the database according to your whims. If you wish to only search for pre-1950 benchmarks or only chiseled squares, or only bolts, it is all available.

 

With the 4 northern counties of our state there are still over 4000 benchmarks that we haven't found and if you add in the rest of the state it totals 17000 marks. I'd have to be dreaming to believe that I would ever recover that many benchmarks, so I break it down to a sizable file that can be loaded quickly into the active memory of the GPSr, and have all the marks for those areas where we are traveling to.

 

Quick easy and simple.

 

John

 

The Delorme's file management abilities are a pretty cool feature, and the PN-60 can use 1500 points per GPX file, and topographic maps apparently being included is awesome. But it doesn't have GLONASS or stand-alone TTS & voice navigation support. Would be nice if a GPS existed that had all of those features.

 

As far as number of benchmarks vs how many I might be able to do, the downside to limiting the number of benchmarks put on the device is that you could end up somewhere with an unexpected chance to do benchmark hunting and not have any data on local benchmarks. I had previously passed over the arc/poly filter settings to the point that I'd forgotten about it, and until now never really looked into it and how it works. At first glance it seems like it would take a lot of work (and internet access) to setup a line or whatever that follows a Google Maps route, but I found a way to export a route from Google Maps and import it into GSAK, so I will be using that a lot for my phone in the future. It still requires internet access though which will limit it's usability.

 

I don't understand the need for GLONASS, since my GPSr will normally put me at 6 feet or less from an adjusted mark and scaled marks need the description to find (unless you see a witness post).

 

Why do you need internet access for GSAK? Once the county or state file is loaded into GSAK all other search functions are there to use. If the internet goes down, I have all the information needed to hunt benchmark in all of AZ,southern UT, and southern NV, plus San Bernardino Co, CA. All these counties are on the GPSr in their individual county files and in GSAK. I also have a few counties in GSAK that are not on the GPSr because I might get a chance to take a vacation/trip there and can load them to the GPSr if needed.

 

If this is what you enjoy, by all means keep doing it. Hope you don't end up like my bass fishing friend, though. He used to catch quite a few bass when he went fishing in his old rowboat. He went and got himself a nice new bassboat with a big engine that would cruise at 60+ miles an hour. The number of fish he caught drop significantly from that point on. He became so involved with running all over the lake and watching the charts and gadgets, that he spent less time fishing and more time playing with the new boat and gadgets.

 

Good hunting

 

John

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I don't understand the need for GLONASS, since my GPSr will normally put me at 6 feet or less from an adjusted mark and scaled marks need the description to find (unless you see a witness post).

 

Why do you need internet access for GSAK? Once the county or state file is loaded into GSAK all other search functions are there to use. If the internet goes down, I have all the information needed to hunt benchmark in all of AZ,southern UT, and southern NV, plus San Bernardino Co, CA. All these counties are on the GPSr in their individual county files and in GSAK. I also have a few counties in GSAK that are not on the GPSr because I might get a chance to take a vacation/trip there and can load them to the GPSr if needed.

 

If this is what you enjoy, by all means keep doing it. Hope you don't end up like my bass fishing friend, though. He used to catch quite a few bass when he went fishing in his old rowboat. He went and got himself a nice new bassboat with a big engine that would cruise at 60+ miles an hour. The number of fish he caught drop significantly from that point on. He became so involved with running all over the lake and watching the charts and gadgets, that he spent less time fishing and more time playing with the new boat and gadgets.

 

Good hunting

 

John

 

I would likely use the GPS for car navigation and Geocaching, including doing both in urban areas. I know from experience that the Nuvi (with it's high sensitivity chipset but without WAAS) has had trouble in a big city and my phone has had issues in a much smaller town. More satellites would hopefully mean better accuracy under those conditions.

 

GSAK itself doesn't require internet access, (though I do miss the maps) but the polygon/arc drawing tool is Google Maps based. Now that I think about it though, I can actually use my laptop and Garmin MapSource to make routes, export them as GPX files and import them on GSAK's arc/polygon filter page. (Only possible because, while I'm not the owner of the Nuvi, I am the one that does the firmware/map updates and such since I am more technically inclined.) This would only work if I have enough time to actually make a route, import it as a filter, save it, and then put it onto whatever device I have with me. With the Nuvi, I wouldn't need to scramble to put together a file for an unexpected destination in order to do spontaneous benchmark hunting. My phone is another story. (There have been times when I've been on a long trip with people and they may choose to take a totally different route then I expected, so I may miss chances to find Geocaches/Benchmarks when stopping somewhere.)

 

The whole thing with the Nuvi is to keep it low maintenance since I can't load stuff on it anytime I want to. My phone is high maintenance since not only do I pre-load smaller areas, I have to pre-load the map tiles too (from OSM data) and that takes a very long time, even just having it download map tiles right around the actual cache/benchmark area. Cachebox for WM can actually go through a database and download maps into a cache for the individual items in the database, assuming they don't have maps already. Rather then say trying to download an entire state's worth of maps. But preloading maps (whatever method I use to do it) takes hours, and is the kind of thing best done overnight since I wouldn't likely be able to answer the phone while that's going on due to some annoying features in Cachebox's design.

 

Edit: Oh, and as far as the idea of spending more time playing with gadgets then actually going benchmark hunting/Geocaching, that's not the case with me. I am however expanding the types of marks I'll be looking for though since I found an online database for Michigan with what would amount to PLSS datasheets, and will be looking for at least one of those markers (1/4 section corner, which is not on a road and was re-monumented in 2002) this weekend. Though I'll be searching more by description then coordinates since for some of these I don't have specific coordinates. I happen to know the area pretty well, so I think I'll be able to find it. If the weather behaves. I've also recently found a couple of ACOE marks (one on a Gaging station) that are Waymarked.

Edited by EdrickV
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