vista hcx, etrex 30, dakota 20

[johnlvs2run]

I like to hike and would like a gps to keep track of total ascents over time, also use it for running, and maybe for geocaching. The main features I want are an accurate gps for distance and an accurate altimeter.

 

So far I've been reading the ratings on amazon, ebay and here. The vista hcx looks good, but starts when turned on and apparently can't be set to start when I start. However it's my first choice based on price. I would probably get a used one.

 

My 2nd choice is the etrex 30, which has issues like odometer doesn't reset and converts to whole miles, total ascent keeps increasing when going downhill, and moving average doesn't stop when it should. Otherwise it is attractive to me. Will firmware updates take care of these issues? I'm using linux fedora.

 

The dakota 30 is my 3rd choice, the main issue being battery drain and the light going on with movement when the receiver is turned off. The gpsmap 62 is attractive but apparently not accurate for ascents and distance.

 

Upon typing this it looks like my choices are the vista hcx (used) or etrex 30 (new). Any suggestions or comments are much appreciated. Thanks.

[JJW]

I have a Vista HCx and I reset the total ascent when I reset at the trip computer screen.

[+chris-66]

I asked Garmin how to reset the total ascent counter on my eTrex 20. They answered I can do it

with a master reset....

[johnlvs2run]

Sussamb, a rating posted the HCX would start tracking moving time when turned on, and could not be reset at the trailhead, without turning the unit off and back on, cumbersome to do at a trailhead in a group. It would be great if there's a setting where tracking can be started manually. By accurate I mean within 20 feet for distance and altitude, closer would be nice, but 50+ feet off would not be acceptable. There were also many reports of constant freezes.

 

JJW, thanks.

 

Chris-66, does the master reset the main odometer? Regarding ascent, I'd like to keep track of ascent and descent for the total hike, without doing a master reset. Also the moving average was reported to keep going when the person was stopped. The review is recent, November 1st. http://www.amazon.com/review/R34QSCGFN2TIMY/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_alt_1

 

Thanks for all the replies. It is disconcerting to see all the issues with the different models.

Edited December 7, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[johnlvs2run]

If you have your Etrex set to automatically produce a track log then clearly it will start when you turn it on and go off when you turn it off. You can set tracklog to off, but then it's more of a procedure to switch it back on than a simple on/off of the GPS.

 

Maybe I'll understand what you're saying when I get one. Also I found the following helpful comment from aksfightr's review on amazon, "if you try to acquire a signal under thick canopy, it will take a few minutes if it does it at all. you have to be in a fairly open area to acquire signal. To accommodate for this, I always let it acquire signal before we arrive at the start point, and then just reset the trip computer to begin the hike."

 

http://www.amazon.com/review/R1VPU500F3G3OV/ref=cm_srch_res_rtr_alt_4

Edited December 8, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[johnlvs2run]

FYI a number of factors affect how quickly any GPS acquires a signal, clearly an interrupted view is one, so is how far the GPS has moved since it was last switched on. Switch it on where you last switched it off and it will know precisely where the satellites are, move it a few hundred miles and it'll take a while to acquire them again. As a guide, the last time I moved mine about 200 hundred miles it took 45 seconds to get a lock.

 

Sussamb, thanks for your comments. Idk how your post impacts my question, or the comment by aksfightr on amazon, "To accommodate for this, I always let it acquire signal before we arrive at the start point, and then just reset the trip computer to begin the hike." Are you saying that method does not work for you on an etrex vista hcx?

Edited December 8, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[JJW]

The Garmin Vista HCx has been around since 2007, so it's firmware is very stable and refined.

 

As/per Garmin's past units, the newer models won't be optimized until the firmware has had multiple revisions.

 

All the units you are looking at can log your tracklog to the micro sd card as a gpx file. In mapsource you can trim the excess parts of the tracklog.

 

Good Luck!

[johnlvs2run]

The Garmin Vista HCx has been around since 2007, so it's firmware is very stable and refined.

 

As/per Garmin's past units, the newer models won't be optimized until the firmware has had multiple revisions.

 

All the units you are looking at can log your tracklog to the micro sd card as a gpx file. In mapsource you can trim the excess parts of the tracklog.

 

Good Luck!

 

JJW, thanks very much. In that case I will stick with getting a vista hcx.

 

According to this link http://www8.garmin.com/support/blosp.jsp the last vista hcx update was December 3, 2009, and there has not been any update for the etrex 30. I'm not familiar with gpx files, and hope the receiver will work well & recall without needing a computer.

 

An off topic question is whether the vista hcx can show moving pace in minutes & seconds, instead of miles per hour, for example 16:40 instead of 3.6 mph? The fellow demonstrating his vista hcx on a hike last weekend said yes, but I've not seen anything about this on the net.

Edited December 8, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[johnlvs2run]

As for accuracy, you're expecting far too much from a consumer handheld if you want to be always within 20 feet for distance and altitude. Altitude in particular can vary by 100's of feet. You can get GPS with barometers but they are more expensive and, so I understand, require quite frequent calibration.

 

Accurate altitude is my primary motivation for getting a gps receiver. Within 10 feet will be good. I believe all of the gps receivers mentioned in this thread have barometeric altimeters, with varying degrees of accuracy. Below is an evaluation of the vista hcx.

 

"The first test of the Vista .. showed exactly what I was looking for: a relatively stable elevation profile that roughly matches the known hills and valleys .. track points measured at the same location and different times were within about 10 feet in elevation, which is about as good as we can expect it to get."

 

"The Vista has a function that allows you to manually calibrate its altimeter if you know the exact elevation where you are. After initial calibration, the Vista will only use GPS to correct for fluctuations in air pressure if the Auto Calibration setting is turned on. This is recommended to provide the best possible elevation data; otherwise it will use the current GPS elevation as its starting point, and that may or may not be very close to reality at any given moment."

http://www.byond.com/members/MikeH?command=view_post&post=95427

[johnlvs2run]

Sussamb,

Thanks very much.

Now that I've decided on the vista hcx, I might get a new one instead of used.

The prices don't appear to be that much different, 170-180 for new & 100 to 157 for used.

This way it would be in good condition, although no guarantee of a firmware update.

Edited December 8, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[+gpsblake]

Same with the odometer ... I've put a request in to have that resettable, like it was on the older Etrex

 

Ditto. For some reason, Garmin did away with the simple procedure of resetting the odometer on Dakota/Colorado/Montana/Oregon and Etrex 10/20/30... But yet, you can reset the main odometer easily on the 60/76/Cx and earlier series of Garmin's. Odd.

[yogazoo]

If I were using a GPS unit as a jogging companion I would want a model with the ability to listen to Garmin's heart rate monitor. Vista won't do it, eTrex 30 and Dakota 20 will. That way you can stay in that target zone while working out ("heart rate bpm" field in the trip computer) plus have the heart rate information imbedded in your tracklog. You can use several software packages as well as myGarmin to view your heart rate over the course of the workout and even calculate calories burned. I have the heart rate monitor I use with my Montana and it works quite well.

 

Vista HCX was a good GPS for it's day but it's rather dated now unless all you need is basic mapping and positional information. Plus the barometeric based altimeter on the eTrex 30 and Dakota works the same as it does on the Vista.

 

If a friend of mine asked me my opinion and stated the needs/wants you did in your original post and then told me he was leaning toward a Vista I'd do my best to persuade him to go with the newer units and more specifically the eTrex 30. I've owned a Vista in the past and have recently used an eTrex 30 and I can tell you that the eTrex 30 is, in all categories, a serious upgrade.

 

 

Same with the odometer ... I've put a request in to have that resettable, like it was on the older Etrex

Why would you want to master reset the "Odometer" when the "Trip Odometer" is really the field you want and resets when you reset the trip data in the setup menu? Garmin gave us TWO different odometer fields on purpose and making the "Odometer" resetable in the setup menu would be giving you TWO fields that do the exact same thing. The "Odometer" acts like the odometer on your car (total mileage) and the "Trip Odometer" acts like the little button you push when fueling up or beginning a trip in your car. "Total Ascent" resets when you reset the trip data as well, at least on the newer units.

Edited December 9, 2011 by yogazoo

[yogazoo]

For walking I like to set the odometer to record total miles on that particular holiday/route and use the trip to measure specific routes. Yes, I could note it all and then add it all up but it was a simple matter to reset the odmeter on the earlier Etrex and of course it's not like a car where total mileage is useful, who the heck needs to know the total mileage a GPS has travelled?

 

My car odometer example was to note the differences and was not meant to be an analogue. I can definately see the functional purpose in using the odometers the way you do. The Montana series now has an other odometer type field, "Track Distance", that is reset by clearing your tracklog data. I would think that would be perfect for your use as quoted above. The "Track Distance" field (along with 20 other new fields) hasn't made it's way onto other units yet but it might.

[geep999]

I got a Vista HCx in August, and have been pretty happy with it. My main interest was to log where I'd been on holiday and where I have walked, and it does that just fine. If I were to buy today I think I'd go for an Etrex 30, as I like the idea of adding my own georeferenced raster maps.

 

Using rechargeable NiMh batteries which fit VERY tightly, and are VERY difficult to remove. Now have Scotch tape round all batteries, forming a little tab which I grip to remove the battery.

 

Uploaded a chunk of OpenStreetMap comprising South East England + Southern Germany (holiday destination) and was well pleased with the maps.

 

Have just started looking seriously at the data I've logged, and only yesterday, after 4 months using the HCx, realised that one is supposed to calibrate the altimeter. So that possibly accounts for the 60 foot shift of the level of the car park between the beginning and end of my walk on Thurs 8 Dec 2011.

 

Today (Fri 9 Dec 2011) I carefully calibrated the HCx altimeter using the 204 feet car park elevation, as given by Google Earth. After less than a couple of hours the car park had dropped to less than 170 feet. So I'm not sure how accurate the altimeter really is. Have now seen lots of discussion elsewheres on this topic. My HCx Altimeter Setup is Auto-calibration: On, Barometer Mode: Variable Elevation. If I do a setup using the GPS altitude setting, rather than a value from Google Maps, then I'm seeing discrepancies of about 30 feet, based on a sample of only 2 locations.

 

The distance data from the odometer seems pretty accurate, moving average too. I've compared the HCx results with own computed results from traces on maps and the .gpx logfile. I usually remember to start logging at the beginning of a walk, and then stop logging at the end, before I switch-off. Else need to edit redundant track segments out of the .gpx logfile

 

If interested. you can see all my results from here: http://pgg999.co.uk/walks.html The "Maps + stats" shows the elevation plot.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Edited December 9, 2011 by geep999

[johnlvs2run]

If I were using a GPS unit as a jogging companion I would want a model with the ability to listen to Garmin's heart rate monitor.

 

Yogozoo, thanks much for your comments.

Cadence would be interesting too, but I've not found if the etrex 30 would work with a foodpod.

 

Vista HCX was a good GPS for it's day but it's rather dated now unless all you need is basic mapping and positional information. Plus the barometeric based altimeter on the eTrex 30 and Dakota works the same as it does on the Vista.

 

I'm considering the etrex 30, the main negatives being price, and reliability, needing firmware updates. The summit hc might be suitable, as I think it does all the vista hcx does, except maps. I've not used a gpsr previously, so using maps from one with a computer sounds complicated, especially using linux.

 

My idea is to either get a basic gpsr like the summit hc and get used to it for a few months, then get a newer model when the bugs are worked out, or else get a newer model now and go through whatever hassles it takes to get it working (ugh).

 

If a friend of mine asked me my opinion and stated the needs/wants you did in your original post and then told me he was leaning toward a Vista I'd do my best to persuade him to go with the newer units and more specifically the eTrex 30. I've owned a Vista in the past and have recently used an eTrex 30 and I can tell you that the eTrex 30 is, in all categories, a serious upgrade.

 

Okay then maybe I'll go that route. So far I've not found a good price for one though.

 

Why would you want to master reset the "Odometer" when the "Trip Odometer" is really the field you want and resets when you reset the trip data in the setup menu?

 

The concern is that the trip odometer would change to whole miles at the same time as the main.

 

"Total Ascent" resets when you reset the trip data as well, at least on the newer units.

The reported issue with ascent is that it keeps increasing when going downhill. I would prefer to not reset the ascent and trip data before the end of a hike, the main concern being that the ascent data does not keep increasing when going downhill, the same for moving pace not increasing when there is no movement.

Edited December 9, 2011 by johnlvs2run

[johnlvs2run]

Today (Fri 9 Dec 2011) I carefully calibrated the HCx altimeter using the 204 feet car park elevation, as given by Google Earth. After less than a couple of hours the car park had dropped to less than 170 feet. So I'm not sure how accurate the altimeter really is. Have now seen lots of discussion elsewheres on this topic. My HCx Altimeter Setup is Auto-calibration: On, Barometer Mode: Variable Elevation. If I do a setup using the GPS altitude setting, rather than a value from Google Maps, then I'm seeing discrepancies of about 30 feet, based on a sample of only 2 locations.

 

That is disconcerting that it changes so much. If I understand correctly, the barometric odometer (accuracy) is the same on the summit hc, vista hcr, etrex 30, as well as all other models. This is the feature that I'm most interested to have.

[geep999]

Today (Fri 9 Dec 2011) I carefully calibrated the HCx altimeter using the 204 feet car park elevation, as given by Google Earth. After less than a couple of hours the car park had dropped to less than 170 feet. So I'm not sure how accurate the altimeter really is. Have now seen lots of discussion elsewheres on this topic. My HCx Altimeter Setup is Auto-calibration: On, Barometer Mode: Variable Elevation. If I do a setup using the GPS altitude setting, rather than a value from Google Maps, then I'm seeing discrepancies of about 30 feet, based on a sample of only 2 locations.

 

That is disconcerting that it changes so much. If I understand correctly, the barometric odometer (accuracy) is the same on the summit hc, vista hcr, etrex 30, as well as all other models. This is the feature that I'm most interested to have.

 

I intend to read up some more on this topic, and also do some more tests so that I can better understand the HCx. If I have understood correctly, results using barometric pressure with automatic calibration via GPS height should be better than just GPS on its own. But then I also think I've read that if just using GPS height, then no height data is written into the track log. I find the topic most confusing at present.

 

Cheers,

Peter

 

PS Some links that are interesting, but maybe confusing! Not all are about the Vista HCx though, so may not be 100% relevant/correct:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=171711

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=171442

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=173995

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=194177&st=0

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=209280

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=137357

[+gpsblake]

Why would you want to master reset the "Odometer" when the "Trip Odometer" is really the field you want and resets when you reset the trip data in the setup menu?

 

In my case, I like to do multiple day bicycle rides and hikes. I like to set the odometer and trip odometer to zero. I like the ability to see my overall bicycle mileage for a trip as well as my daily mileage side by side. The Venture HC does this. The newer versions of Garmin handhelds do not.

 

What I would really want is the ability to manually set the odometer to a pre-arriganed number. That way, when I do bike rides, I can always set the main odometer to my current yearly mileage.

 

I know Garmin can do this because their Edge series is based on the Dakota/Oregon/Colorado/Nuvi software and have this ability to either reset the main odometer to zero or to put any value you wish in the odometer.

[yogazoo]

I know Garmin can do this because their Edge series is based on the Dakota/Oregon/Colorado/Nuvi software and have this ability to either reset the main odometer to zero or to put any value you wish in the odometer.

 

A master hard reset on the newer units will take the odometer to zero.

[johnlvs2run]

Why does the summit hc have a battery life of 14 hours, vs 25 hours for the vista hcx? The receivers appear to be the same, except the vista hcx has autorouting and expandable memory. Amazon lists the summit as having 14 hours with AA batteries, but up to 32 hours with AA alkaline batteries.

 

Is the battery life for these two receivers the same, or else why is it different?

[+user13371]

John: I don't know WHY, exactly, but this wasn't just the Summit HC versus the Vista HCX. In that family of older Garmin units, the HCX models were *all* advertised with much longer battery life than the HC models. The most obvious hardware difference was the inclusion of a memory card slot in the X models, but I don't know how that would influence battery life.

[johnlvs2run]

I ordered a vista hcx from ebay last night. Thanks for all the helpful responses.