FTF Storm Brewing

[mresoteric]

Who's trying to force this underground? There is a thread about it. And if I were the one deleting the log, I would make sure the finder knew exactly why the log was deleted. That's not exactly the cover up you seem to be inferring.

If we're not trying to force this "underground" then why even have a discussion about deleting the log? After all, the land managers could very well read the forums too.

 

This is the "cover up" I am refering to:

If a park manager (and not just one managing that particular park) read the log, they may very well form an unfavorable opinion about caching.

Delete the log before that happens. Invite the finder to repost without mentioning the illegal activity. There is still time to keep geocaching from getting a black eye.

If I were a land manager I could very well interpet that to mean "Cachers do illegal things and then try to cover their tracks about it. I wonder how many times this has happened and the logs have been edited to hide the activity. This sounds like something that I need to stop."

 

If I see one in fifty logs mentioning being in the park after hours I know how often it happens. If I see one in fifty logs mentioning being in the park after hours and then see that log "disappear", I'm going to question the validity of the other 49 logs too now.

 

Don't get me wrong -- I have never knowingly violated local laws to find a cache and I certainly would never encourage anyone to do so. I just like taking on an opposing role to make sure I think over both sides of an issue before I jump on the "delete the log" bandwagon.

 

Still don't see the "cover up" since it is still being discussed here. And I would not recommend deleting a log without specifying why it is being deleted, so it's not like it's being swept under the rug either.

 

But since you are essentially playing devil's advocate, then I will say yes, anyone can interpret anything in any manner at any given time. So yes, there is an off chance that the park manager might see the deletion and go bonkers. But again, I highly doubt the park manager was watching the page prior to FTF, but knowschad says he might so I guess it is possible.

 

I still say the co should have deleted the log. However, the longer it is on the page the more correct your assertion becomes. I'm pretty sure lots of people have read it by now so probably not a good idea to delete at this point.

Assuming, for a moment, a scenario where a park manager watchlists all the caches in their area of control, (I know two land managers who do this), I can't imagine that they'd go bonkers. Rather, I suspect they'd see the log bragging about the illegal activity, then they'd see the log being deleted due to illegal activity and see first hand that some cache owners are conscientious enough to enforce consequences for bad behavior. By the time someone is far enough along in their life that they've reached a management position, they should at least be mature enough to recognize that there is no 100% effective way to prevent bad behavior. Knowing this, they should appreciate those cache owners who draw the proverbial line in the sand, punishing the violators by deleting their logs.

Exactly. To believe that this worry will come to fruition very often one would have to assume that land managers are irrational temperamental half-wits who paint whole groups by the action of a few. That's not been my experience with land managers (or many adults at all). Not saying it hasn't happened, but it's just not a very realistic worry.

 

I'm not worried. Dan-O-Can is the one concerned about land managers perceiving it as a cover up.

[+SooMukwas]

Very true. Keyword, "aware". Hopefully, they realized after one or two silly logs that their cache was now inaccessible for the season.

 

Temptation will always be there though, whether disabled or not, as some of my caches have been logged while in "temporarily disabled" status.

 

Unless you remove the container for "maintenance".

 

Climb over the fence in the middle of winter to get your own cache in attempts to discourage people from doing what you yourself just did?

Remove it the day before winter.

 

I may be native injun, but even I can't predict when the snow(winter) will start each year. I have done some snow dances in the past to try and speed it up though.

[+DanOCan]

Exactly. To believe that this worry will come to fruition very often one would have to assume that land managers are irrational temperamental half-wits who paint whole groups by the action of a few. That's not been my experience with land managers (or many adults at all). Not saying it hasn't happened, but it's just not a very realistic worry.

 

Yet, aren't we discussing removing the offending log to prevent a land manager from seeing it and painting all Geocachers based on the actions of a few?

 

When dealing with irrational temperamental half-wits you never know which side of an issue they will take.

[+Semze]

why not discourage illegal activities/rule breaking by taking away the recognition? Remove the offender's log (if they clearly ignored posted signs and knowingly broke laws/rules) and hand the ftf to someone else. I'm sure people would balk at the idea, but it would likely send out a clear message that rules must be read and obeyed.

[knowschad]

Very true. Keyword, "aware". Hopefully, they realized after one or two silly logs that their cache was now inaccessible for the season.

 

Temptation will always be there though, whether disabled or not, as some of my caches have been logged while in "temporarily disabled" status.

 

Unless you remove the container for "maintenance".

 

Climb over the fence in the middle of winter to get your own cache in attempts to discourage people from doing what you yourself just did?

Remove it the day before winter.

 

I may be native injun, but even I can't predict when the snow(winter) will start each year. I have done some snow dances in the past to try and speed it up though.

 

Sounds like you need an Indian Weather Stone. If its wet, its raining, and if its white, its snowing.

[+SooMukwas]

Very true. Keyword, "aware". Hopefully, they realized after one or two silly logs that their cache was now inaccessible for the season.

 

Temptation will always be there though, whether disabled or not, as some of my caches have been logged while in "temporarily disabled" status.

 

Unless you remove the container for "maintenance".

 

Climb over the fence in the middle of winter to get your own cache in attempts to discourage people from doing what you yourself just did?

Remove it the day before winter.

 

I may be native injun, but even I can't predict when the snow(winter) will start each year. I have done some snow dances in the past to try and speed it up though.

 

Sounds like you need an Indian Weather Stone. If its wet, its raining, and if its white, its snowing.

 

It was last autumn, and the Indians on our remote reservation asked their new Chief, me, if the winter was going to be cold or mild.

 

Since I was an Indian Chief in a modern society, I had never been taught the old secrets, and when I looked at the sky, I couldn't tell what the weather was going to be.

 

Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, I replied to my tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect wood to be prepared. But also being a practical leader, after several days I got an idea. I went to the phone booth, called the National Weather Service and asked, "Is the coming winter going to be cold?"

 

"It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold indeed," the Meteorologist at the weather service responded.

 

So I went back to my people and told them to collect even more wood in order to be prepared.

 

One week later I called the National Weather Service again. "Is it going to be to be a very cold winter?"

 

"This winter is going to be very cold for sure," the Meteorologist at the weather service replied.

 

Again, I went back to my people and ordered them to collect every scrap of wood they could find.

 

Two weeks later I called the National Weather Service again. "Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?"

 

"Absolutely," the man replied. "It looks like it's going to be one of the coldest winters ever."

 

"How can you be so sure?" I asked.

 

The weatherman replied, "The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy."

[Clan Riffster]

Anyway you slice it, that will be a tough person to work with.

"Tough person" doesn't quite do him justice, but any other term would likely get me in trouble with TPTB here. My eventual solution was to bypass him completely. I found that his second in command is the person that was tasked way back when with determining if specific areas would be appropriate for specific activities. She is pro caching, and agrees wholeheartedly with your sentiment regarding her boss. She went so far as to work with me in developing a means that would fit within their rules, to have a night cache on the property, which is closed at sunset.

[knowschad]

Very true. Keyword, "aware". Hopefully, they realized after one or two silly logs that their cache was now inaccessible for the season.

 

Temptation will always be there though, whether disabled or not, as some of my caches have been logged while in "temporarily disabled" status.

 

Unless you remove the container for "maintenance".

 

Climb over the fence in the middle of winter to get your own cache in attempts to discourage people from doing what you yourself just did?

Remove it the day before winter.

 

I may be native injun, but even I can't predict when the snow(winter) will start each year. I have done some snow dances in the past to try and speed it up though.

 

Sounds like you need an Indian Weather Stone. If its wet, its raining, and if its white, its snowing.

 

It was last autumn, and the Indians on our remote reservation asked their new Chief, me, if the winter was going to be cold or mild.

 

Since I was an Indian Chief in a modern society, I had never been taught the old secrets, and when I looked at the sky, I couldn't tell what the weather was going to be.

 

Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, I replied to my tribe that the winter was indeed going to be cold and that the members of the village should collect wood to be prepared. But also being a practical leader, after several days I got an idea. I went to the phone booth, called the National Weather Service and asked, "Is the coming winter going to be cold?"

 

"It looks like this winter is going to be quite cold indeed," the Meteorologist at the weather service responded.

 

So I went back to my people and told them to collect even more wood in order to be prepared.

 

One week later I called the National Weather Service again. "Is it going to be to be a very cold winter?"

 

"This winter is going to be very cold for sure," the Meteorologist at the weather service replied.

 

Again, I went back to my people and ordered them to collect every scrap of wood they could find.

 

Two weeks later I called the National Weather Service again. "Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?"

 

"Absolutely," the man replied. "It looks like it's going to be one of the coldest winters ever."

 

"How can you be so sure?" I asked.

 

The weatherman replied, "The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy."

 

Cute!

[+TEAM GAWFER]

Since I was the original poster on this I feel obliged to say thank you to all my fellow cachers that have expressed an opinion. Although the topic seemed to wonder as most seem to do I now have a feeling for how the community feels. Let me add a bit of information regarding this incident, and then we can put this to bed as far as I'm concerned. 1:The cache description includes a LARGE pic of the sign at the park entrance, with the hours very prominent and clearly visible. 2:I get the distinct feeling that the CO and this FTF hound are close friends, since the finder states in the post that he received a call from the CO alerting him to the cache the night that he went hunting. I have noted that these two seem to pair up on a number of local caches, almost to the point of wonder if they sometime go out together and watch each other hide a cache just so the other can get the FTF (NO proof of this so please no need to discuss).

 

I liked the idea of a switch for the reviewers to delay the posting to daylight hours in the area the cache is located. Hope TPTB will think about it.

 

I was more concerned that by caching in a closed park those that are anti-everything would have more ammo to stop the activity than I was about pros and cons of deleting a log, but thanks for all the input just the same.