Garmin Topo US 24k missing trails compared to US Toppo (100K)

[+Orienteering]

I just got the Micro SD card with US Topo 24K for California and Nevada. I really like the detail compared to the US Topo 100K and the idea of routable trails intruiged me.

 

BUT I had now already two instances where the trails I could see on my unit with the 100K data were not visible on my unit with the 24K data.

 

Does anyone have similar experiences?

 

The last time was at Point Reyes National Seashore. I was hiking on Cost Trail/Bear Valley Trail/Baldy Trail etc. The unit with the 24K maps showed them as POI (Blue hiking symbol) just like the unit with the 100K, BUT the trails themselves where only visible on the unit with the 100K map.

 

May be I'm making a mistake and have to change a setting? Otherwise I will have to return the 24K map. Without the trails it is pretty much useless for my purposes.

Edited October 3, 2008 by Orienteering

[bmirak]

To troubleshoot whether its a setting on your device, I'd recommend that you see if the trails appear in MapSource - but can you view SD-card maps on the computer?

 

I suppose it could be something with how your zoom details are set. Have tried zooming way in on the trail? If the trail is only appearing at very close zoom, you can calibrate that under map settings.

 

Unfortunately, the most likely problem is that Garmin's new maps just don't include the trails. The reality is that outdoor maps are only a tiny part of Garmin's market. They focus pretty much all their effort on road nav. Thus, Garmin's trail data is incomplete and often highly innacurate. Too bad, because routable trails are very cool!

 

It is possible, using free software, to make your own transparent, routable trail map which you can install on top of a Garmin map. There are some tutorials on the internet about how to do this, but its a bit tricky and none of the tutorials are perfect. Plus, I don't know how this would work if you are using SD maps.

[+Orienteering]

Unfortunately it is not possible to view SD cards on the computer in MapSource. That is a major disadvantage.

 

The setting when using the Garmin SD card with Topo 24k and when using my own SD card with downloaded Topo 100K data are the same. I see the trails on my personal SD card with the 100K data and I don't see them on the Gamin SD card with the 24K data.

 

What is frustrating is that the POIs for the trails are there. So for example on Mount Tamalpais here in San Francisco I see a handful of blue/white POI symbols that stand for a trail. When I click on them I can see the trail name, but the trail itself is nowhere to see.

 

It would be great if someone who also has the CA/NV 24K map could confirm that no trails are shown on Mount Tamalpais -- only POI symbols. In that case I would return the SD card. It would be even better if someone could tell me that trails are visible and what the settings are to see them.

 

To troubleshoot whether its a setting on your device, I'd recommend that you see if the trails appear in MapSource - but can you view SD-card maps on the computer?

 

I suppose it could be something with how your zoom details are set. Have tried zooming way in on the trail? If the trail is only appearing at very close zoom, you can calibrate that under map settings.

 

Unfortunately, the most likely problem is that Garmin's new maps just don't include the trails. The reality is that outdoor maps are only a tiny part of Garmin's market. They focus pretty much all their effort on road nav. Thus, Garmin's trail data is incomplete and often highly innacurate. Too bad, because routable trails are very cool!

 

It is possible, using free software, to make your own transparent, routable trail map which you can install on top of a Garmin map. There are some tutorials on the internet about how to do this, but its a bit tricky and none of the tutorials are perfect. Plus, I don't know how this would work if you are using SD maps.

[Barrikady]

It would be great if someone who also has the CA/NV 24K map could confirm that no trails are shown on Mount Tamalpais -- only POI symbols. In that case I would return the SD card. It would be even better if someone could tell me that trails are visible and what the settings are to see them.

 

 

I have both US Topo 2008 and CA/NV Topo US 24K loaded on my Oregon 300.

 

I can confirm that Mt. Tam trails are shown on Topo 2008, and Mt. Tam trails are not shown on Topo US 24K.

 

.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Barrikady

[+Latentk]

Do a forum search for NW Trails. There is a neat mappack someone has developed, with which you can both make your own hybrid, or overlay the trails on NWTrails on top of any map you'd like! I used this for my little part of Idaho to great success!!

[+Orienteering]

Thanks for confirming. That is so disappointing.

 

Why would Garmin delete information from the 24K maps? They should have more detailed information, not less! When planning a trip I need the information about the trails. It is beyond me that they wouldn't have trails on their maps.

 

It would be great if someone who also has the CA/NV 24K map could confirm that no trails are shown on Mount Tamalpais -- only POI symbols. In that case I would return the SD card. It would be even better if someone could tell me that trails are visible and what the settings are to see them.

 

 

I have both US Topo 2008 and CA/NV Topo US 24K loaded on my Oregon 300.

 

I can confirm that Mt. Tam trails are shown on Topo 2008, and Mt. Tam trails are not shown on Topo US 24K.

 

.

Edited October 6, 2008 by Orienteering

[bmirak]

Why would Garmin delete information from the 24K maps?

 

For the same reason that Garmin's Colorado and Oregon series don't include all the tools available on the 60csx. Buy both!

 

Maybe Garmin will soon release a "Super 24k Mt. Tam Mapset - Now with accuracy to within 100 feet of the actual trail!" What's another $80?

[+Orienteering]

I tried it in 5 different parks. In all 5 trails were displayed on the US TOPO maps (100K) but not on the TOPO US 24K CA/NV maps. That is extremly disappointing. I contacted Garmin and they told me that this is in fact correct and due to different data sources that are used. It still doesn't make sense to me to have a trail name in the list of POIs but not the actual trail shown on the map. I returned the 24K maps and while doing it showed it to the employees at REI. They were totally surprised and couldn't believe it. They were under the impression that you get all trails that are on a USGS map and have so far told their customers exactly that. For the people at REI it was an eye opener to see the 100 k maps and the 24 k maps displayed side by side and see trails on one and no trails on the other. It just doesn't make sense.

 

So now I can just wait for Garmin to fix this. But given their answer about different data sources I don't even expect them to see this as a problem that needs to be fixed.

 

 

Why would Garmin delete information from the 24K maps?

 

For the same reason that Garmin's Colorado and Oregon series don't include all the tools available on the 60csx. Buy both!

 

Maybe Garmin will soon release a "Super 24k Mt. Tam Mapset - Now with accuracy to within 100 feet of the actual trail!" What's another $80?

[MtnHermit]

Thanks for your post, bit of an eye opener. Since the 100K maps were always dismissed for lack of trails, I can imagine your disappointment when the 24K maps had less trails.

 

Given that Garmin is only 10% finished with the 24K roll out, and their track record of upgrading topo products, I'd expect it'd be 5+ years before you saw the missing trails added.

[+geodarts]

I wish I had read this post before asking for (and getting) the 24k maps as a Christmas present. I noticed the same problem when I went hiking today in Marin County. The trails and fire roads were included in the topo 2008, but not in the 24k maps. Then I checked other areas near where I live and noticed the same thing. This was extremely disappointing, since the promise of routable trails was the main thing that induced me to get it.