Finds Detail View

[+KBI]

'What harm is it doing? Who is the victim?'

It's nice to know that as of now you will never, never again have any legitimate grounds to ever criticize anyone else for being "off topic."

[+TrailGators]

Go Packers...

(Not really a Vikings fan )

Time to close the thread?

 

This IS still the website forum, isn't it?

 

Geocaching.com Web Site:

Discuss new features (or feature requests), bugs, etc. specific to the Geocaching.com site.

I will fix my post to fit the discussion...

 

November 22 by ArcherDragoon (Not a Vikings Fan)

 

...now, that fits one possible idea...can't even pause an argument for a holiday...what has this country come to???

 

Later,

ArcherDragoon

I agree. It's a holiday! Most of us are happy and loaded up on turkey and pumpkin pie.

 

Here's my customized numbers:

 

November 22 by TrailGators (Go Packers!)

 

[+KBI]

When did you start speaking for everyone?

Good question. When DID I start speaking for everyone?

 

I thought you and I were only representing you and me. Did I miss something?

 

You know KBI, just because you're against an idea doesn't make the idea worthless.

I agree. It's entirely possible that I am wrong. It HAS happened before.

 

If you are right and I am wrong, I want to be convinced that you are right so that I can begin to agree with you. Why would I want to go around being wrong if I don't have to? That is why I debate. It isn’t to annoy you; it is to find out what your underlying reasons are and to hear you out on your best convincing reasoning.

 

It is then your choice whether to engage me in debate or to simply ignore my objections; I thank you for respecting me enough to respond.

 

You've made some good points. I still don't see the necessity for your suggestion, but – I don't run the place. If those who do run the place ever decide to implement your voluntary option idea I will continue to cache just as happily.

 

Mostly I’m happy to hear that you, unlike others, are not threatened by other people’s find counts or the manner in which they build their numbers. The fact that you’ve been somewhat allied with a few of these recent "abuse victims" had me wondering about your reasons, but now I see you were only batting around a suggestion for what you seem to believe is a positive feature improvement.

 

Who knows, maybe enough people will express support for your idea that the Keepers O' Caching will actually code it into the site.

 

Good luck, and please keep trying to change my mind – It HAS happened before ...

 

... and until then I'll continue trying to change yours.

[+TrailGators]

 

November 22 by TrailGators (Happy Thanksgiving everyone!)

 

We could even fill in holiday messages into our numbers!

[+ArcherDragoon]

Mostly I’m happy to hear that you, unlike others, are not threatened by other people’s find counts or the manner in which they build their numbers. The fact that you’ve been somewhat allied with a few of these recent "abuse victims" had me wondering about your reasons, but now I see you were only batting around a suggestion for what you seem to believe is a positive feature improvement.

 

I think I have made it clear I don't care what other people's stats say...and more important, I don't care what other people think of my stats. I made it clear how I use my stats for my own book-keeping.

 

Everyone has had some great ideas in this thread...can we at least agree (and I will use that term very loosely) they are all ideas??? This thread has brought out many interesting ideas and what people would like to see about how stats are displayed and options that could be used for all...sure, we all don't agree on certain items...I know I prefer one option over the other and would even like to include that with another idea from another thread...but they are all ideas!!! I think we all displayed a "passion" in what our idea(s) represented...some have even challenged my ideas (stated here or not) and helped me decided more about my caching philosophy. Isn't that what this is all about???

 

Which idea is better is left to TPTB...may they choose wisely!!!

 

Later,

ArcherDragoon

[+TrailGators]

Everyone has had some great ideas in this thread...can we at least agree (and I will use that term very loosely) they are all ideas??? This thread has brought out many interesting ideas and what people would like to see about how stats are displayed and options that could be used for all...sure, we all don't agree on certain items...I know I prefer one option over the other and would even like to include that with another idea from another thread...but they are all ideas!!! I think we all displayed a "passion" in what our idea(s) represented...some have even challenged my ideas (stated here or not) and helped me decided more about my caching philosophy. Isn't that what this is all about???

 

Which idea is better is left to TPTB...may they choose wisely!!!

 

Later,

ArcherDragoon

Wisely stated AD. You hit the nail on the head! Edited November 23, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Rockin Roddy]

When did you start speaking for everyone?

Good question. When DID I start speaking for everyone?

 

I thought you and I were only representing you and me. Did I miss something?

 

You know KBI, just because you're against an idea doesn't make the idea worthless.

I agree. It's entirely possible that I am wrong. It HAS happened before.

 

If you are right and I am wrong, I want to be convinced that you are right so that I can begin to agree with you. Why would I want to go around being wrong if I don't have to? That is why I debate. It isn’t to annoy you; it is to find out what your underlying reasons are and to hear you out on your best convincing reasoning.

 

It is then your choice whether to engage me in debate or to simply ignore my objections; I thank you for respecting me enough to respond.

 

You've made some good points. I still don't see the necessity for your suggestion, but – I don't run the place. If those who do run the place ever decide to implement your voluntary option idea I will continue to cache just as happily.

 

Mostly I’m happy to hear that you, unlike others, are not threatened by other people’s find counts or the manner in which they build their numbers. The fact that you’ve been somewhat allied with a few of these recent "abuse victims" had me wondering about your reasons, but now I see you were only batting around a suggestion for what you seem to believe is a positive feature improvement.

 

Who knows, maybe enough people will express support for your idea that the Keepers O' Caching will actually code it into the site.

 

Good luck, and please keep trying to change my mind – It HAS happened before ...

 

... and until then I'll continue trying to change yours.

 

You've got my end KBI, I'm not going to try to convince anyone for what good is it? I'm seriously doubting TPTB are paying attention to us pions anyway.

 

KBI, I, like many others, don't mind "debating" a topic. It's when it feels more like a spanish inquisition (or maybe an LEO grilling) that it isn't fun. You do make good points, it's HOW you make them that turns people away and makes them NOT want to discuss the issues with you. I'd have been more than happy to "discuss" the issues nice and civil-like had you not taken the approach you did (and once I feel I'm being harassed, my approach changes appropriatley to match my "adversary"). Note how Archer Dragon "discusses" with TG how he feels.

 

I'm not telling you how to handle your conversations, just how your conversations come across (to me least).

 

That other topic...I jumped in somewhere in the middle because I tired of seeing the same harassing attitude toward TG and RoN. You completely missed that I wasn't railing for or against anything save attitudes, yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic. Had you read what I was saying, you'd have figured that out. You also missed what my opinion and motives were here...you merely ASSUMED I wanted the change because of the multilogging and no matter how I tried to explain it, you railed. FINALLY, you understand...and I now feel a meaningful debate could take place....too late though since I've said all I'm caring to say here. Everyone knows my position (I feel many knew it long before now) here, so I'm done. If Jeremy or OpinioNate (or TPTB) jump in and want to get claryfication, fine.

 

Archer Dragon...CARRY ON! You have clearly stated your reasons for your action and gave me an insight as to how others might feel. THANK-YOU for being civil throughout, good job! Had I been debating you, my attitude would have been MUCH milder! Good job!

 

Sometimes there isn't a clear "RIGHT or WRONG", sometimes it isn't about who IS right. Sometimes it's about an idea and how the idea can or cannot be helpful. This idea hurts no one IMHO(I'd think many would find the automated addition helpful since many DO post their numbers already), it's merely a request for an upgrade.

Edited November 23, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+KBI]

KBI, I, like many others, don't mind "debating" a topic. It's when it feels more like a spanish inquisition (or maybe an LEO grilling) that it isn't fun. You do make good points, it's HOW you make them that turns people away and makes them NOT want to discuss the issues with you. I'd have been more than happy to "discuss" the issues nice and civil-like had you not taken the approach you did (and once I feel I'm being harassed, my approach changes appropriatley to match my "adversary"). Note how Archer Dragon "discusses" with TG how he feels.

 

I'm not telling you how to handle your conversations, just how your conversations come across (to me least).

 

That other topic...I jumped in somewhere in the middle because I tired of seeing the same harassing attitude toward TG and RoN. You completely missed that I wasn't railing for or against anything save attitudes, yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic. Had you read what I was saying, you'd have figured that out. You also missed what my opinion and motives were here...you merely ASSUMED I wanted the change because of the multilogging and no matter how I tried to explain it, you railed.

You know, you almost had me believing you – and feeling sorry for you – until I looked back over the first page of that thread just now to see for myself what actually happened.

 

What you describe today is not accurate at all.

 

Since you are now trying to distance yourself from the failed proposal in that first thread, and since you have now made yourself out to sound like a cowering victim and me to sound like a crazed bully, let’s look at a few of your posts from that previous thread and see whether the facts support your characterization:

 

Your very first post to the thread:

 

I really can't see how a time constraint as this would stop multiple logging, but will keep quiet!

 

I also can't imagine finding the same cache more than once in a week (well, ever really). Aren't "traveling" caches supposed to travel? I'm glad we don't have those around here.

Not too bad, but you clearly seem to agree with the OP at this point that “multiple logging” must be stopped. You also express a distaste for traveling caches as if you have a similar problem with multiple logging there. Why?

 

 

 

Your next post:

 

So it's a "friends" cache? What would happen if someone came along and moved it to another state?

 

For all the sarcasm in your post Mushtang, you MUST realize that TPTB DO see these moving caches as an abuse or they'd have left them active (just like the virts). I can see the reason too...distance problems would be the major one! Again...glad these aren't around here, might as well be a lint picker cache (oh, I mean pocket cache...sorry).

 

Anyway, I see that this might slow the logging of multiple attendeds (gee, that MUST be sooo fun), but some number hungry (or is it fun loving) loggers will undoubtedly set their machine up as a cut & paste factory, set an alarm so they don't miss their time slot (wouldn't want to wait longer tomorrow would we...) and just log away anyways. I mean, it's soooo fun after all!

 

(I thought I'd throw some sarcasm back in case anyone is running low...lol)

 

Mushtang....millions of people like speeding too, should we just let them have at it since it's fun for them? My point being...just because some like this, it doesn't make it right and it surely doesn't give reason to allow it!

"Allow" it? It's not "right?" Here is where you place yourself squarely in the same camp as those who feel threatened by all those “extra” smileys, who claim multilogging is “abuse” (conveniently without identifying the victims), and who would clearly prefer to control other’s behavior rather than accept it.

 

 

 

Another Roddy post:

 

I see that cache as a "friends" cache simply because it "stays close to friends"...I believe it was said the same person could easily find it a few times in a day (or was it week...either way). Sounds more like to me, a bunch of you have this on your watch and as soon as it's dropped again, off after another number!! YIPPEE!! Again, glad this isn't around here.

 

I don't care if you're half a continent away or half a block...doing it right is universal.

Doing it right? Right by whose standard? What is so “wrong” about logging temp caches that drove you to agree with that proposal? If you support the proposal presented in that thread, you support compelling people to bend to your version of “doing it right.”

 

Today you make it sound as if you’ve backed off your original motivation by putting it this way:

 

“Sometimes there isn't a clear "RIGHT or WRONG", sometimes it isn't about who IS right. Sometimes it's about an idea and how the idea can or cannot be helpful.”

 

Point is, you did in fact have an opinion as you entered that thread, a strong one apparently, and one you repeated frequently – which is absolutely contrary to what you just told me today:

 

“... yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic.”

 

 

Another Roddy post (all of these have been from the first page. It goes on like this, but the point's been made.):

 

There has to be a way to stop the abuse without rewarding those who want to log non-existent caches.

Wow. Can’t be much more clear than that, can you?

 

You very plainly state two premises here:

(1) Multilogging of event temp caches constitutes "abuse."

(2) The behavior is unacceptable and needs to be "stopped."

 

For quite a while now I have been waiting to hear something – anything – to convince me that either of these premises is valid.

 

 

 

Either way, I once again reject your personal attack. Your description of your side of the original exchange doesn't seem to be supported by the public record.

 

Now it’s your turn, Roddy. Quote a post or two of mine from that same thread showing how I was, as you describe here, either uncivil, personally abusive, or was meant to make you feel like you were being accused of a crime. If you can convince me that I got off-topic and personal, or was in any way unreasonable, I will apologize.

 

Despite your contention that “Sometimes there isn't a clear ‘RIGHT or WRONG’,” I see it as very clearly wrong to try to force or compel other cachers to bend their behavior merely to suit your preference (or worse, irrational feeling of having been "abused"), especially when you are unable to make a convincing case that there is anything at all harmful about what they are doing.

 

THAT is why I debated against the OP’s proposal in that thread.

 

You clearly supported it. If your position has changed since then, that's okay by me.

[+Rockin Roddy]

KBI, I, like many others, don't mind "debating" a topic. It's when it feels more like a spanish inquisition (or maybe an LEO grilling) that it isn't fun. You do make good points, it's HOW you make them that turns people away and makes them NOT want to discuss the issues with you. I'd have been more than happy to "discuss" the issues nice and civil-like had you not taken the approach you did (and once I feel I'm being harassed, my approach changes appropriatley to match my "adversary"). Note how Archer Dragon "discusses" with TG how he feels.

 

I'm not telling you how to handle your conversations, just how your conversations come across (to me least).

 

That other topic...I jumped in somewhere in the middle because I tired of seeing the same harassing attitude toward TG and RoN. You completely missed that I wasn't railing for or against anything save attitudes, yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic. Had you read what I was saying, you'd have figured that out. You also missed what my opinion and motives were here...you merely ASSUMED I wanted the change because of the multilogging and no matter how I tried to explain it, you railed.

You know, you almost had me believing you – and feeling sorry for you – until I looked back over the first page of that thread just now to see for myself what actually happened.

 

What you describe today is not accurate at all.

 

Since you are now trying to distance yourself from the failed proposal in that first thread, and since you have now made yourself out to sound like a cowering victim and me to sound like a crazed bully, let’s look at a few of your posts from that previous thread and see whether the facts support your characterization:

 

Your very first post to the thread:

 

I really can't see how a time constraint as this would stop multiple logging, but will keep quiet!

 

I also can't imagine finding the same cache more than once in a week (well, ever really). Aren't "traveling" caches supposed to travel? I'm glad we don't have those around here.

Not too bad, but you clearly seem to agree with the OP at this point that “multiple logging” must be stopped. You also express a distaste for traveling caches as if you have a similar problem with multiple logging there. Why?

 

 

 

Your next post:

 

So it's a "friends" cache? What would happen if someone came along and moved it to another state?

 

For all the sarcasm in your post Mushtang, you MUST realize that TPTB DO see these moving caches as an abuse or they'd have left them active (just like the virts). I can see the reason too...distance problems would be the major one! Again...glad these aren't around here, might as well be a lint picker cache (oh, I mean pocket cache...sorry).

 

Anyway, I see that this might slow the logging of multiple attendeds (gee, that MUST be sooo fun), but some number hungry (or is it fun loving) loggers will undoubtedly set their machine up as a cut & paste factory, set an alarm so they don't miss their time slot (wouldn't want to wait longer tomorrow would we...) and just log away anyways. I mean, it's soooo fun after all!

 

(I thought I'd throw some sarcasm back in case anyone is running low...lol)

 

Mushtang....millions of people like speeding too, should we just let them have at it since it's fun for them? My point being...just because some like this, it doesn't make it right and it surely doesn't give reason to allow it!

"Allow" it? It's not "right?" Here is where you place yourself squarely in the same camp as those who feel threatened by all those “extra” smileys, who claim multilogging is “abuse” (conveniently without identifying the victims), and who would clearly prefer to control other’s behavior rather than accept it.

 

 

 

Another Roddy post:

 

I see that cache as a "friends" cache simply because it "stays close to friends"...I believe it was said the same person could easily find it a few times in a day (or was it week...either way). Sounds more like to me, a bunch of you have this on your watch and as soon as it's dropped again, off after another number!! YIPPEE!! Again, glad this isn't around here.

 

I don't care if you're half a continent away or half a block...doing it right is universal.

Doing it right? Right by whose standard? What is so “wrong” about logging temp caches that drove you to agree with that proposal? If you support the proposal presented in that thread, you support compelling people to bend to your version of “doing it right.”

 

Today you make it sound as if you’ve backed off your original motivation by putting it this way:

 

“Sometimes there isn't a clear "RIGHT or WRONG", sometimes it isn't about who IS right. Sometimes it's about an idea and how the idea can or cannot be helpful.”

 

Point is, you did in fact have an opinion as you entered that thread, a strong one apparently, and one you repeated frequently – which is absolutely contrary to what you just told me today:

 

“... yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic.”

 

 

Another Roddy post (all of these have been from the first page. It goes on like this, but the point's been made.):

 

There has to be a way to stop the abuse without rewarding those who want to log non-existent caches.

Wow. Can’t be much more clear than that, can you?

 

You very plainly state two premises here:

(1) Multilogging of event temp caches constitutes "abuse."

(2) The behavior is unacceptable and needs to be "stopped."

 

For quite a while now I have been waiting to hear something – anything – to convince me that either of these premises is valid.

 

 

 

Either way, I once again reject your personal attack. Your description of your side of the original exchange doesn't seem to be supported by the public record.

 

Now it’s your turn, Roddy. Quote a post or two of mine from that same thread showing how I was, as you describe here, either uncivil, personally abusive, or was meant to make you feel like you were being accused of a crime. If you can convince me that I got off-topic and personal, or was in any way unreasonable, I will apologize.

 

Despite your contention that “Sometimes there isn't a clear ‘RIGHT or WRONG’,” I see it as very clearly wrong to try to force or compel other cachers to bend their behavior merely to suit your preference (or worse, irrational feeling of having been "abused"), especially when you are unable to make a convincing case that there is anything at all harmful about what they are doing.

 

THAT is why I debated against the OP’s proposal in that thread.

 

You clearly supported it. If your position has changed since then, that's okay by me.

 

Ummmmm...I BELIEVE that was from the very topic where OpinioNate said there was no change coming???? Again, you aren't reading my posts or you'd have KNOWN I was speaking of the LAST topic (Find Counts...Hasta See Ya). THERE, I posted on the 5th page with my little blast at you and a couple others who were continaully harassing for "an answer". From the 5th page on, I railed against the VERY uncivil postings of harassment which went right on and still went even here where you still (until I pointed it out to you VERY clearly) were under the ASSUMPTION that I was against the multilogging.

 

You see KBI, you just can't figure it out! You don't read what is said and you try to make your argument strong by parsing comments (this time parsing one from the WRONG topic and proving yourself WRONG in the process)! By the time we got to the topic I posted above, my view had changed (JUST LIKE I SAID).

 

Maybe, just maybe you should TRY to get it right, then maybe you'll get a bit of understanding what is REALLY being said!! Good try though!! Please, read what i said before making another monumental mistake as this!!

 

Oh...and the next time you want to call me a liar, please have the right info....also, not interested in an apology, I just like the fun of watching your mistakes!

Edited November 23, 2007 by Rockin Roddy

[+The Leprechauns]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them. There is a heavy emphasis on maps showing where I've found caches. There is also a section that shows how many unique finds I have vs. how many total finds I've logged. (And I stand by the one double log, because the cache moved, the container changed from rubbermaid to ammo box, and I had a harder time finding the new placement when giving a tour to a visiting geocacher.)

 

Others have exercised their freedom of choice to display various statistics using other cache statistics calcuators and/or GSAK macros. The tools are already there. Choose to use them, or not.

 

Anyone who wants more information is welcome to click on the link to my profile page. The cache page is about the cache. Why clutter it up? And why devote site development time to make it customizeable for every user? There are lots of things I'd rather see first in v2.

Edited November 23, 2007 by The Leprechauns

[+Rockin Roddy]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them. There is a heavy emphasis on maps showing where I've found caches. There is also a section that shows how many unique finds I have vs. how many total finds I've logged. (And I stand by the one double log, because the cache moved, the container changed from rubbermaid to ammo box, and I had a harder time finding the new placement when giving a tour to a visiting geocacher.)

 

Others have exercised their freedom of choice to display various statistics using other cache statistics calcuators and/or GSAK macros. The tools are already there. Choose to use them, or not.

 

Anyone who wants more information is welcome to click on the link to my profile page. The cache page is about the cache. Why clutter it up? And why devote site development time to make it customizeable for every user? There are lots of things I'd rather see first in v2.

I will try this Lep...but I'm not very computer savvy (and I THINK I might have tried this once before), that's why I would like it to be automated so us less than savvy souls can have our stats as we like them as well (if you check my profile, you'll see my outdated stats from when I tried something like this...I got it right...ONCE....couldn't figure it out again afterwards).

 

There are plenty of us out here that can't do simple computer skills...I have trouble trying to quote in these forums from time to time! It would be nice if we could have our choices shown without us having to figure out how (and I know I'll be called lazy from the "crowd")...it's not about being lazy, but knowing how!

 

I have figured out GSAK (I think) as I was able to send info to my PDA...is it anything like that? That took me some doing, but I did get it to work (twice....that's a good sign)!

[+tozainamboku]

Sometimes there isn't a clear "RIGHT or WRONG", sometimes it isn't about who IS right. Sometimes it's about an idea and how the idea can or cannot be helpful. This idea hurts no one IMHO(I'd think many would find the automated addition helpful since many DO post their numbers already), it's merely a request for an upgrade.

My head hurts. This thread seems to be now on how to debate rather than should the find count be broken down someway that indicates how much of it is do to logging temporary caches at events.

 

First of all, perhaps KBI comes across as an attack dog, but I think he just reiterating his position that if you propose a change to Geocaching.com you need to present a good reason for that change. I think he may have jumped in to soon think the reason for more stats was to ultimately provide more fodder to attack the people who log multiple finds. You probably need a better argument to convince him that having a detailed summary of the find is really to help people look at the numbers in different ways without complaining about how someone else looks at the numbers. If you are going to make a proposal to change something you had better be prepared to justify the need for this change. Someone is bound to demand this justification.

 

The other thing that bothers me is the statement that there isn't a clear "RIGHT or WRONG". What would ReadyOrNot think? It sounds like the opposition to the practice of logging temporary events has melted away. It is now OK to log temporary events, but we just want to know which geocachers are doing this so we don't have to compare our numbers to theirs. I think the only one with a consistent position in this has been Jeremy. And that is probably why he doesn't respond to these threads any more.

 

The intent of the Found It log is to report you found a cache. The intent of the Attended log is to report you attended an event. You used to Find events but it was changed to Attended probably because Jeremy was uncomfortable with saying you "found" something other than a cache; Webcam logs were changed to Photo Taken at the same time. The site provides a number of breakdowns of caches found. The number referred to as "Find Count" is simply the sum of all Found It, Attended, and Photo Taken logs that a cacher has entered.

The website does not enforce any rules for entering Found It, Attended, and Photo Taken logs. The responsibility for quality control of the logs is given to the cache owner.

 

The system works because the overwhelming majority of people post only logs which they believe are legitimate logs. Only a few people have ever been caught entering logs for no reason other than seeing their find count number go up. Different people may perceive different things legitimate finds. Some only will post only one Found It log per GC number. Others are willing to find a moving cache multiple times. Others might re-log a cache where an owner moved the container or changed the hiding style and says that previous finders may log this again. Some will change a DNF to find if the cache owner says that they were looking in the right place and the cache must be gone. Some will log bonus finds for doing some activity at the cache like standing on their head. Some will log temporary event caches. Because the website gives the cache owner the responsibility to determine what is a find on their cache (including additional logging requirements), all of these finds are legitimate. The good part is that the bonus finds are always optional. If you don't want to count something other than finding a cache as a find, you don't have to log any additional finds. Your find count will then have what you want it to show and other people are free to have the find count they want to show. If you believe that whether a persons find count includes bonuses affects the way you geocache - perhaps by misinterpreting the find count when you use it to evaluate a DNF log by a cacher you don't know - and that there should be a change to the website to correct this, you should first be able to make a convincing argument that there is a problem. You might not be able to convince KBI, but if you have a good argument you may get others (whose opinions carry more weight) to agree to some change.

[+TrailGators]

KBI, I, like many others, don't mind "debating" a topic. It's when it feels more like a spanish inquisition (or maybe an LEO grilling) that it isn't fun. You do make good points, it's HOW you make them that turns people away and makes them NOT want to discuss the issues with you. I'd have been more than happy to "discuss" the issues nice and civil-like had you not taken the approach you did (and once I feel I'm being harassed, my approach changes appropriatley to match my "adversary"). Note how Archer Dragon "discusses" with TG how he feels.

 

I'm not telling you how to handle your conversations, just how your conversations come across (to me least).

 

That other topic...I jumped in somewhere in the middle because I tired of seeing the same harassing attitude toward TG and RoN. You completely missed that I wasn't railing for or against anything save attitudes, yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic. Had you read what I was saying, you'd have figured that out. You also missed what my opinion and motives were here...you merely ASSUMED I wanted the change because of the multilogging and no matter how I tried to explain it, you railed. FINALLY, you understand...and I now feel a meaningful debate could take place....too late though since I've said all I'm caring to say here. Everyone knows my position (I feel many knew it long before now) here, so I'm done. If Jeremy or OpinioNate (or TPTB) jump in and want to get clarification, fine.

 

Well stated Roddy! I agree 100% that the way people present their side can alienate people and cause trouble. None of these ideas are worth treating anyone in these threads like dirt. A civil conversation is far more beneficial and productive. AD was very civil and now I understand his motivation for why he does what he does. I would have never understood it if he had been combative. Maybe someday we all will be able to freely share ideas. These threads are supposed to be fun.

[+TrailGators]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them. There is a heavy emphasis on maps showing where I've found caches. There is also a section that shows how many unique finds I have vs. how many total finds I've logged. (And I stand by the one double log, because the cache moved, the container changed from rubbermaid to ammo box, and I had a harder time finding the new placement when giving a tour to a visiting geocacher.)

 

Others have exercised their freedom of choice to display various statistics using other cache statistics calcuators and/or GSAK macros. The tools are already there. Choose to use them, or not.

 

Anyone who wants more information is welcome to click on the link to my profile page. The cache page is about the cache. Why clutter it up? And why devote site development time to make it customizeable for every user? There are lots of things I'd rather see first in v2.

I will try this Lep...but I'm not very computer savvy (and I THINK I might have tried this once before), that's why I would like it to be automated so us less than savvy souls can have our stats as we like them as well (if you check my profile, you'll see my outdated stats from when I tried something like this...I got it right...ONCE....couldn't figure it out again afterwards).

 

There are plenty of us out here that can't do simple computer skills...I have trouble trying to quote in these forums from time to time! It would be nice if we could have our choices shown without us having to figure out how (and I know I'll be called lazy from the "crowd")...it's not about being lazy, but knowing how!

 

I have figured out GSAK (I think) as I was able to send info to my PDA...is it anything like that? That took me some doing, but I did get it to work (twice....that's a good sign)!

It's actually pretty easy Roddy. Just run the query then go to the site and load it. The site does the rest. The site creates some interesting stats!

[+The Leprechauns]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them.

I will try this Lep...but I'm not very computer savvy (and I THINK I might have tried this once before), that's why I would like it to be automated so us less than savvy souls can have our stats as we like them as well (if you check my profile, you'll see my outdated stats from when I tried something like this...I got it right...ONCE....couldn't figure it out again afterwards).

 

It's actually pretty easy Roddy. Just run the query then go to the site and load it. The site does the rest. The site creates some interesting stats!

I also struggle with the computer side of geocaching, and did not switch over to GSAK and its steep learning curve until January of this year. The reason I like INATN is that, when I upload a new "All Finds" file, then the key elements of my profile page are automatically updated with the new information. The HTML is provided by the INATN website and you just copy it into your profile page. There are checkboxes to choose which information to include. Your profile page then "looks" at the INATN site for the current data each time someone loads your profile for viewing.

[+TrailGators]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them.

I will try this Lep...but I'm not very computer savvy (and I THINK I might have tried this once before), that's why I would like it to be automated so us less than savvy souls can have our stats as we like them as well (if you check my profile, you'll see my outdated stats from when I tried something like this...I got it right...ONCE....couldn't figure it out again afterwards).

 

It's actually pretty easy Roddy. Just run the query then go to the site and load it. The site does the rest. The site creates some interesting stats!

I also struggle with the computer side of geocaching, and did not switch over to GSAK and its steep learning curve until January of this year. The reason I like INATN is that, when I upload a new "All Finds" file, then the key elements of my profile page are automatically updated with the new information. The HTML is provided by the INATN website and you just copy it into your profile page. There are checkboxes to choose which information to include. Your profile page then "looks" at the INATN site for the current data each time someone loads your profile for viewing.

I'm not a web guy either. I just "Monkey see, Money do" everything. I didn't know you could load that stuff from their website! That site actually found a duplicate I had logged. I found a cache that I had previosly found 2.5 years prior. I didn't remember it at all. Anyhow, I deleted that log. It would be cool if the cache page put a check or something at the top of the page to let you know that you've already found it.

[+ReadyOrNot]

THAT is why I debated against the OP’s proposal in that thread.

 

Ok.. Thanksigivings over. KBI, I see your still at it? You lost the debate from my perspective, yet here you are, continuing to cause trouble... Tsk tsk tsk..

 

I was willing to let it end, but you are hard pressed to continue... So, how about we pick up where we left off?

 

You said that stealing a pencil from work was stealing.. Even though there were no victims.. Here you are again talking about how if there are no victims, then there's no problem, but you said stealing the pencil was theft even though there were no victims... Will you make up your mind? You are confusing me.

[+TrailGators]

The intent of the Found It log is to report you found a cache. The intent of the Attended log is to report you attended an event. You used to Find events but it was changed to Attended probably because Jeremy was uncomfortable with saying you "found" something other than a cache; Webcam logs were changed to Photo Taken at the same time.

I agree with this and it is very straightforward.

[+The Leprechauns]

So, how about we pick up where we left off?

Or how about continuing on the theme of the past several posts, which to me looked like a productive discussion about how to use existing, easy tools to accomplish the goal of displaying more information behind one's find count? The lions were just starting to lie down with the lambs.

 

You can use the PM feature to have back and forth arguments.

[+TrailGators]

So, how about we pick up where we left off?

Or how about continuing on the theme of the past several posts, which to me looked like a productive discussion about how to use existing, easy tools to accomplish the goal of displaying more information behind one's find count? The lions were just starting to lie down with the lambs.

 

You can use the PM feature to have back and forth arguments.

As long as we get to be the lions I like that metaphor! The lambs are the ones that always say "Baa!" Edited November 23, 2007 by TrailGators

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

[+TrailGators]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

It is a pretty cool site. I am definitely a weekend cacher. There is some new stuff that we are going to get with V2 on January 7th, but it is a surprise.

[+KBI]

You see KBI, you just can't figure it out! You don't read what is said and you try to make your argument strong by parsing comments (this time parsing one from the WRONG topic and proving yourself WRONG in the process)! By the time we got to the topic I posted above, my view had changed (JUST LIKE I SAID).

Again I say: If you have changed your mind on your previous objection to people multilogging temp caches, I applaud you.

 

I'm glad to know that someone has convinced you to see that there is nothing to fear from other people's smileys.

 

From the 5th page on, I railed against the VERY uncivil postings of harassment ...

"Uncivil." "Harassment." Strong claims, yet still no supporting proof or convincing evidence.

 

I ask once again: Can you link or quote the statements I made that you consider to be uncivil and harassing? If you can, I would be very interested to see exactly what it is I said that offended you personally. If you cannot, I would ask you to abandon this empty tit-for-tat and please discuss the actual on-topic issue instead.

 

I think that's a very reasonable request, don't you? Either show me the abuse or stop making the claim.

 

All this make-a-claim-yet-refuse-to-support-it stuff in these threads is getting tedious. It does nothing to enhance a person's credibility.

[+KBI]

THAT is why I debated against the OP’s proposal in that thread.

 

Ok.. Thanksigivings over. KBI, I see your still at it? You lost the debate from my perspective, yet here you are, continuing to cause trouble... Tsk tsk tsk..

 

I was willing to let it end, but you are hard pressed to continue... So, how about we pick up where we left off?

 

You said that stealing a pencil from work was stealing.. Even though there were no victims.. Here you are again talking about how if there are no victims, then there's no problem, but you said stealing the pencil was theft even though there were no victims... Will you make up your mind? You are confusing me.

Yes, I will agree that you are still confused.

 

Let's start with this question: When, exactly, did I say there is no victim when a pencil is stolen? If I did, please quote my post or link me to it. I believe that was your original premise, not mine.

 

When a pencil (or anything else of actual value) is stolen, then there very clearly IS a victim. The victim has had something tangible stolen from him.

 

When someone other than you logs a temp cache on an event cache page, however, there is no victim. There is therefore no "abuse," as you seem to want to believe, and therefore no need for any website changes intended to control others' behavior.

 

Haven't we been over this before? TG and Roddy have already abandoned their calls for behavior control. Why do you still feel threatened by the perceived "abuse?"

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

It is a pretty cool site. I am definitely a weekend cacher. There is some new stuff that we are going to get with V2 on January 7th, but it is a surprise.

I like the maps as well. I see it also keeps track of counties, is there a way to get county maps?

 

On topic, I would still think a small change would be simple and would be good for many (given the chance)...but this is a bit of a help!

[+The Leprechauns]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

It is a pretty cool site. I am definitely a weekend cacher. There is some new stuff that we are going to get with V2 on January 7th, but it is a surprise.

I like the maps as well. I see it also keeps track of counties, is there a way to get county maps?

 

On topic, I would still think a small change would be simple and would be good for many (given the chance)...but this is a bit of a help!

On INATN, in the maps section, you can look at a map of each state where you've found a geocache, and see each county color-coded to show how many caches you've found in that county. Check out my maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio, which I display on my profile page.

 

In GSAK you can run a macro that will tag each cache with the name of the county it's in. This macro uses the same data file that defines the county boundaries on INATN. I've not been able to get this feature to work, as it's over my head, computer-wise and patience-wise.

 

Right now, the number of caches I've found in a particular county or state is WAY more important to me than how many I've found overall. I've had a blast this year, running around and coloring in my county maps, and making the colors change as I find more caches.

 

That is *my* finds detail that I want the world to see. Your mileage may vary.

[+Backwards Charlie from Austin]

Using Groundspeak's marvelous "All Finds" pocket query and its license agreement that allows me to upload that query to the It's Not About the Numbers website, I'm able to customize my profile to slice, dice and display my statistics exactly the way I want others to see them. There is a heavy emphasis on maps showing where I've found caches. There is also a section that shows how many unique finds I have vs. how many total finds I've logged. (And I stand by the one double log, because the cache moved, the container changed from rubbermaid to ammo box, and I had a harder time finding the new placement when giving a tour to a visiting geocacher.)

 

Others have exercised their freedom of choice to display various statistics using other cache statistics calcuators and/or GSAK macros. The tools are already there. Choose to use them, or not.

 

Anyone who wants more information is welcome to click on the link to my profile page. The cache page is about the cache. Why clutter it up? And why devote site development time to make it customizeable for every user? There are lots of things I'd rather see first in v2.

 

Thank you The Leprechauns for trying to bring some sanity back into this thread!

 

There are some people in this thread that need to walk away from their computer and go do some geocaching before they have a stroke.

[+Rockin Roddy]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

It is a pretty cool site. I am definitely a weekend cacher. There is some new stuff that we are going to get with V2 on January 7th, but it is a surprise.

I like the maps as well. I see it also keeps track of counties, is there a way to get county maps?

 

On topic, I would still think a small change would be simple and would be good for many (given the chance)...but this is a bit of a help!

On INATN, in the maps section, you can look at a map of each state where you've found a geocache, and see each county color-coded to show how many caches you've found in that county. Check out my maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio, which I display on my profile page.

 

In GSAK you can run a macro that will tag each cache with the name of the county it's in. This macro uses the same data file that defines the county boundaries on INATN. I've not been able to get this feature to work, as it's over my head, computer-wise and patience-wise.

 

Right now, the number of caches I've found in a particular county or state is WAY more important to me than how many I've found overall. I've had a blast this year, running around and coloring in my county maps, and making the colors change as I find more caches.

 

That is *my* finds detail that I want the world to see. Your mileage may vary.

I did find the maps of the state and counties...looks like I need to do a bit to get them added to my profile...but already have the U.S. map so I'm happy for now. Interesting where I've been!!

 

Backwards...you'll get used to it. Sometimes, you just have to get dirty with the pigs (as an old saying goes). I was just surprised not to see the argument continue (even if alone...)

[4wheelin_fool]

KBI, I, like many others, don't mind "debating" a topic. It's when it feels more like a spanish inquisition (or maybe an LEO grilling) that it isn't fun. You do make good points, it's HOW you make them that turns people away and makes them NOT want to discuss the issues with you. I'd have been more than happy to "discuss" the issues nice and civil-like had you not taken the approach you did (and once I feel I'm being harassed, my approach changes appropriatley to match my "adversary"). Note how Archer Dragon "discusses" with TG how he feels.

 

I'm not telling you how to handle your conversations, just how your conversations come across (to me least).

 

That other topic...I jumped in somewhere in the middle because I tired of seeing the same harassing attitude toward TG and RoN. You completely missed that I wasn't railing for or against anything save attitudes, yet you harassed me as if I had an opinion on that topic. Had you read what I was saying, you'd have figured that out. You also missed what my opinion and motives were here...you merely ASSUMED I wanted the change because of the multilogging and no matter how I tried to explain it, you railed. FINALLY, you understand...and I now feel a meaningful debate could take place....too late though since I've said all I'm caring to say here. Everyone knows my position (I feel many knew it long before now) here, so I'm done. If Jeremy or OpinioNate (or TPTB) jump in and want to get clarification, fine.

 

Well stated Roddy! I agree 100% that the way people present their side can alienate people and cause trouble. None of these ideas are worth treating anyone in these threads like dirt. A civil conversation is far more beneficial and productive. AD was very civil and now I understand his motivation for why he does what he does. I would have never understood it if he had been combative. Maybe someday we all will be able to freely share ideas. These threads are supposed to be fun.

 

When you started geocaching, I'm sure you believed that it was a light, fun activity.

 

Soon after, you discovered that there was some serious competition going on, and that some people were trying to bend the stats unfairly to "win".

 

Later, it was realized that the stats were for individual use, and that it is silly to "compete".

 

But then, you came into the forums to express some ideas and for some light discussion, and discovered some serious competiton going on in here where a simple conversation is turned into an ACEDEMIC DEBATE and the point wasn't to get you to gently change your mind, but to WIN.

 

You really need some sort of "title" if you plan on "winning" - such as KING or CAPTAIN

[+tozainamboku]

You really need some sort of "title" if you plan on "winning" - such as KING or CAPTAIN

Or realize that it is folly to debate someone with the title FOOL

[+TrailGators]

You really need some sort of "title" if you plan on "winning" - such as KING or CAPTAIN

Or realize that it is folly to debate someone with the title FOOL

...or GATOR! I can't even pronounce your name Toz so I won't go there...

[+Ambrosia]

Well I'll be....I got it on almost the first try! Found out I multilogged a few caches and fixed the ones whicj needed fixed...left two because both of them were changed w/o a new listing.

 

THANKS!

 

I still like the idea of the stats in log thing, but this isn't bad!

It is a pretty cool site. I am definitely a weekend cacher. There is some new stuff that we are going to get with V2 on January 7th, but it is a surprise.

I like the maps as well. I see it also keeps track of counties, is there a way to get county maps?

 

On topic, I would still think a small change would be simple and would be good for many (given the chance)...but this is a bit of a help!

On INATN, in the maps section, you can look at a map of each state where you've found a geocache, and see each county color-coded to show how many caches you've found in that county. Check out my maps of Pennsylvania and Ohio, which I display on my profile page.

 

In GSAK you can run a macro that will tag each cache with the name of the county it's in. This macro uses the same data file that defines the county boundaries on INATN. I've not been able to get this feature to work, as it's over my head, computer-wise and patience-wise.

 

Right now, the number of caches I've found in a particular county or state is WAY more important to me than how many I've found overall. I've had a blast this year, running around and coloring in my county maps, and making the colors change as I find more caches.

 

That is *my* finds detail that I want the world to see. Your mileage may vary.

I did find the maps of the state and counties...looks like I need to do a bit to get them added to my profile...but already have the U.S. map so I'm happy for now. Interesting where I've been!!

 

Backwards...you'll get used to it. Sometimes, you just have to get dirty with the pigs (as an old saying goes). I was just surprised not to see the argument continue (even if alone...)

Some of the maps are provided in the automatic html set up in INATN, like the country maps. But others, like the counties, you need to save into photobucket and then put in your profile (photobucket provideds html, too). So that's not too bad!

[4wheelin_fool]

You really need some sort of "title" if you plan on "winning" - such as KING or CAPTAIN

Or realize that it is folly to debate someone with the title FOOL

 

Yes, complete folly

 

Never debate a fool or a fanatic

 

[+Rockin Roddy]

If my comcast would keep working instead of intermittently, I'd give it another try and see how the maps go on...it's a bummer!

[+paleolith]

Can we also include:

 

Ammo Cans Found: 463

Tupperware containers Found: 234

[etc]

I would prefer to see

 

Ammo Cans Found: 697

Tupperware containers Found: 0

 

Edward