Another Who/What Placed It in San Diego Co CA

[+Rumpled]

While staying in the Jamul area of San Diego County, CA (SE area of county) I was looking for DCO333 SD 114 SD CO DC0333

 

I couldn't find it, but I did see a witness post over yonder. So, I wandered over; hoping it might be a RM, or the BM itself.

 

But it was something entirley new.

Here's the view of the witness post. The post seems generic to me, no agency listed.

 

After a couple of minutes of work weeding, I spied HK

 

So, who/what was/is HK? Landowner, surveyor, some kid who found the wet concrete?

 

My coordinates were N 32 39.094 W 116 51.455 elevation 800.52 ft

 

I couldn't find it in the NGS database; didn't expect I would.

I tried to look it up on the San Diego County Surveyor website, but couldn't find my way around their website well enough.

 

In my travels over the next few days in the same area (~3 miles), I found many other witness posts with markers of some kind, concrete monuments, concrete filled pipes with nails and such.

 

My guess is that local ranchers want really well defined boundaries, but it seemed odd to me that so many witness posts were used. Often only a hundred yards or so apart.

 

Any ideas on what's going on?

TIA for any help.

[Bill93]

Were the other concrete monuments given similar letters? Is there a pattern to the letters? Do they seem to align with likely boundaries?

[+Rumpled]

HK was the only labelled mark I found.

There were some round concrete monumnets, some square.

The concrete monuments have a rougher finish than I've seen on NGS monuments.

I also saw a couple of about 1 inch pipes, concrete filled with a nail and washer; still no label.

 

Probably 90% of the ones I found were along fencelines, usually near a fence corner; so property boundaries seem most likely to me.

As you can see< HK is at a fence corner.

 

I just was a bit surprised to see the witness posts used.

[Z15]

HK may be the initials of person who originally set the mark, maybe many years ago. I am confident you found property corners.

 

Those generic witness post anyone can buy. They will print custom labels for you for a fee and apply them for large orders.

[CallawayMT]

While staying in the Jamul area of San Diego County, CA (SE area of county) I was looking for DCO333 SD 114 SD CO DC0333

 

I couldn't find it, but I did see a witness post over yonder. So, I wandered over; hoping it might be a RM, or the BM itself.

 

But it was something entirley new.

Here's the view of the witness post. The post seems generic to me, no agency listed.

 

After a couple of minutes of work weeding, I spied HK

 

So, who/what was/is HK? Landowner, surveyor, some kid who found the wet concrete?

 

My coordinates were N 32 39.094 W 116 51.455 elevation 800.52 ft

 

I couldn't find it in the NGS database; didn't expect I would.

I tried to look it up on the San Diego County Surveyor website, but couldn't find my way around their website well enough.

 

In my travels over the next few days in the same area (~3 miles), I found many other witness posts with markers of some kind, concrete monuments, concrete filled pipes with nails and such.

 

My guess is that local ranchers want really well defined boundaries, but it seemed odd to me that so many witness posts were used. Often only a hundred yards or so apart.

 

Any ideas on what's going on?

TIA for any help.

 

The HK mark that you give the coordinates for, falls on some sort of a metes and bounds land boundary as shown on the USGS quad map. My guess without any research would be a spanish land grant in that area. Kewanah is north of that area and I am sure that he will have a better answer for you.

 

CallawayMT

[+jwahl]

The HK monument was set by California Licensed Surveyor named Hugo Kuehmsted in about 1931 per Record of Survey LS 00430 as it is indexed in the San Diego County survey records. So that is where HK comes from. He surveyed and remonumented a lot of corners in that township in that survey.

 

- jerry wahl

 

While staying in the Jamul area of San Diego County, CA (SE area of county) I was looking for DCO333 SD 114 SD CO DC0333

 

I couldn't find it, but I did see a witness post over yonder. So, I wandered over; hoping it might be a RM, or the BM itself. ...

 

After a couple of minutes of work weeding, I spied HK

 

So, who/what was/is HK? Landowner, surveyor, some kid who found the wet concrete?

 

Any ideas on what's going on?

TIA for any help.

 

The HK mark that you give the coordinates for, falls on some sort of a metes and bounds land boundary as shown on the USGS quad map. My guess without any research would be a spanish land grant in that area. Kewanah is north of that area and I am sure that he will have a better answer for you.

 

CallawayMT

[+Rumpled]

I looked up the half dozen or so of these that I recorded at topozone and all but one seem to be right on the red dashed lines. Those are property or land grant lines? Seems I've found a series of well documented boundaries.

 

What about section and township and ranges?

I couldn't find a key to the markings on the website.

 

jwahl

Great info, where did you get such detailed info? Is that available online.

 

Also, I don't know why the section? markings seem so square and orderly in some places and then all of sudden take on an irregular shape. That is what is happening in this area.

Here's an example of a witness post I found on one of those transitions

Topozone Witness Post

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

I looked up the half dozen or so of these that I recorded at topozone and all but one seem to be right on the red dashed lines. Those are property or land grant lines? Seems I've found a series of well documented boundaries.

 

What about section and township and ranges?

I couldn't find a key to the markings on the website.

 

jwahl

Great info, where did you get such detailed info? Is that available online.

 

Also, I don't know why the section? markings seem so square and orderly in some places and then all of sudden take on an irregular shape. That is what is happening in this area.

Here's an example of a witness post I found on one of those transitions

Topozone Witness Post

 

When the California lands were aquired from Mexico, there was an agreement that the Spanish & Mexican Land Grants (Ranchos) remain intact. As such, the private land holdings given to citizens from the King of Spain and the Mexican Government, and their seemingly irregular boundaries took precedent over any and all of the new United States (and Public Land Survey System) lands. The Government had changed, but the private land holdings remained.

 

California gained Statehood in 1850, and the California Surveyor General, under direction of the U.S. Surveyor General, began the subdivision of the new public lands soon after. The surveyors charged with the task did so with guidance from the then current Public Land Survey System Manual of Instructions. The key here is the term 'Public Lands'. The U.S. Government recognized the Ranchos (and some mining claims and patents recorded prior to Statehood) as private land holdings which held 'Senior Rights' over the adjoining public lands. The Ranchos were not subdivided into townships, but were retained as one parcel of land, surrounded by the PLSS townships.

 

Today, many of the Ranchos remain as they were in 1850, as seen in Rumpled's TopoZone example, but some of the Ranchos have been subdivided into a PLSS-type of system. The adjoining PLSS system may have been used and extended into the Rancho, but original Rancho boundary remains and any subdivided interior properties may still be under the Rancho jurisdiction and quailfications.

 

- Kewaneh

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

...Great info, where did you get such detailed info? Is that available online...

 

County of San Diego Survey Records System

 

Hugo A. Kuehmsted, California PLS 1011

 

A current list of California Land Surveyors can be found HERE.

 

- Kewaneh

[+Rumpled]

Good info and links.

But I still can't get geodetic info to show on the SD Co map.

In OC I get it to work fine, they just show up on the map with geodetic checked.

 

How did you tie HK to Kuehmsted? Personal knowledge, or did you know how to find geodetic records for the area and he showed up?