Why Catagories?

[DRX]

This catagory thing is preventing a lot of great points of interest from being shown to people, because every great location, place or point of interest I have found that I want to share, has no catagory that will accept it. Imagine if for geocaching, every geocache had to be listed in a catagory like this site, and 75% of the geocaches wouldn't have a place to go either! Everyone would have to wait for some political commitee to vote on and decide if a catagory could be made first, and oh where is the joy in all that?

 

Let's get rid of the politics, comittees, catagories, and just let people enter in and put in points of interest they feel they would like to share with others! You enter in your zip code, and find all the interesting things near you, just like you do with geocaching! There are no catagories there, and THANK GOD for that!

 

I just wasted a lot of time entering a statue for Jack Benny, entering coordinates, uploading photos, putting in a description, then tried to find a catagory for it, but the closest one I could find, then rejected it a day later. What now? I am supposed to keep entering in the information over and over again in every catagory until someone is nice enough to accept it? The reason for rejecting it was because Jack Benny is no longer alive. Who cares?!

 

Why not just let people upload their interesting waypoints, and someone who organises this website can made and/or figure out what catagory to put it in if there MUST be catagories.

 

Man, now this thing won't even let me write any more text. THis is ridiculous.

 

Why is there only a preview post, no button to actually post this?

 

I don't know if this will post or not, everything on this site is complicated and impossible to figure out for me. It would just have been easier to leave the virtual and locationless caches the way they were. Those that didn't like them, didn't have to go find them and log them. Simple.

 

Why have two sites, having to log in to both of them to see all the locations nearest you? And does finding these add to your log in the geocaching site? No? Then what is the point?

 

If I didn't know any better, I would think the government had set this whole idea up. It seems like something they would do, and in the manner they would do things.

 

Well, hopefully this gets through and someone fixes this catagory problem, or else no one is going to be able to post points of interest unless they meet the requirements of a catagory. Which none of mine do, how sad. I wonder how many other interesting points others are not able to upload as well because of this limitation? There are no LAWS that say we can't upload ALL interesting points, so why place more restrictions on ourselves if we don't have to?

 

THis should be FUN. Not a complicated hard time of begging for catagories, begging and waiting for commitee approval of a point of interest. We have enough of that in real life, why bring such unpleasantness into a HOBBY?

 

Ridiculous!

 

I don't know how this discussion forum thing works, I can't even figure out how to get this to actually post, only a button to check post length and preview, no actual post message button! So I probably won't figure out how to read any replies either. Hopefully, who ever reads all this can figure a way to fix this problem for me. Thanks.

[+BruceS]

Take time to understand how things work before you suggest changes or criticize them. There are specific reasons why there are categories and also reasons why these are not listed on the geocaching site (they used to be there but it was decided they were not the right fit there). Lack of understanding does not mean things are wrong... it means you don't understand them. Take the time to learn.

 

Sound like you tried to post Jack Benny in the Living Statue category. Each category has its requirements, and one of the requirements for that category is that it is living person. Sounds pretty straight forward to me. If there isn't a category and it is something you are interested in, then wouldn't it make sense to create a category of "Comic Statues" or "Show Biz Statues" and then you could see all the comic statues or showbiz statues in one place. If your interest is comic statues why would you want to wade through bridges, historic sites and all the other waypoints to find them.

[DRX]

There are specific reasons why there are categories and also reasons why these are not listed on the geocaching site (they used to be there but it was decided they were not the right fit there).

 

Exactly. Now consider WHY it was decided so. Then relate that thought here.

 

Sound like you tried to post Jack Benny in the Living Statue category. Each category has its requirements, and one of the requirements for that category is that it is living person. Sounds pretty straight forward to me.

 

But there is no category to post a statue of a dead person, so now no one gets to see or share in the location of the Jack Benny statue. Seem straightforward to you now?

 

If there isn't a category and it is something you are interested in, then wouldn't it make sense to create a category of "Comic Statues" or "Show Biz Statues" and then you could see all the comic statues or showbiz statues in one place.

 

No. why create a whole catagory for just one statue?? I am not interested in comic statues or show biz statues, I just found this ONE statue of interest and it would be nice to share it and it's coordinates with others. Too bad this site doesn't allow that without having to go through red tape to come up with a whole new catagory just so ONE statue can be shared with others.

 

Can we create a MISC catagory so that people like myself can share interesting points of interest with others here without having to create a new catagory everytime we find something interesting?

 

 

If your interest is comic statues why would you want to wade through bridges, historic sites and all the other waypoints to find them.

 

Because my interest is never limited to one catagory or statues. I would be interested in bridges, historic sites, statues and anything else that is located near a certain geographic area or zip code. (think geocaching)

 

If I enter in a location or zip code, I can see all that is interesting in that area. If I go to a catagory, there are going to be things in different states and locations that I am not at, and are of no importance to me.

 

My interest is interesting things near my area. How about a catagory like that?

 

Better yet, forget the catagories alltogether. This was much better handled via virtual caches. Then I could just enter in an area and see everything in that area of interest.

 

Hope this makes things better to understand. I guess I didn't explain it well enough the first time, my mistake.

 

Thanks.

 

Edited May 10, 2006 by DRX

[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

There are specific reasons why there are categories and also reasons why these are not listed on the geocaching site (they used to be there but it was decided they were not the right fit there).

 

Exactly. Now consider WHY it was decided so. Then relate that thought here.

 

Might as well give that up. Waymarking is here to stay, virtuals and locationless are gone, regardless of what people wish. This is the time to focus on making Waymarking exciting for all people.

 

Sound like you tried to post Jack Benny in the Living Statue category. Each category has its requirements, and one of the requirements for that category is that it is living person. Sounds pretty straight forward to me.

 

But there is no category to post a statue of a dead person, so now no one gets to see or share in the location of the Jack Benny statue. Seem straightforward to you now?

 

Then make a category of dead people statues. We can do that.

 

If there isn't a category and it is something you are interested in, then wouldn't it make sense to create a category of "Comic Statues" or "Show Biz Statues" and then you could see all the comic statues or showbiz statues in one place.

 

No. why create a whole catagory for just one statue?? I am not interested in comic statues or show biz statues, I just found this ONE statue of interest and it would be nice to share it and it's coordinates with others. Too bad this site doesn't allow that without having to go through red tape to come up with a whole new catagory just so ONE statue can be shared with others.

 

Can we create a MISC catagory so that people like myself can share interesting points of interest with others here without having to create a new catagory everytime we find something interesting?

 

Then create a MISC category.

 

Ever have a geocache denied because it was too close to another cache, or any other reason? Just because you want it doesnt mean you would have been able to post it on Waymarking or geocaching.

 

If your interest is comic statues why would you want to wade through bridges, historic sites and all the other waypoints to find them.

 

Because my interest is never limited to one catagory or statues. I would be interested in bridges, historic sites, statues and anything else that is located near a certain geographic area or zip code. (think geocaching)

 

If I enter in a location or zip code, I can see all that is interesting in that area. If I go to a catagory, there are going to be things in different states and locations that I am not at, and are of no importance to me.

 

My interest is interesting things near my area. How about a catagory like that?

 

As it happens, you can enter your zip code and get a listing of all the waymarks in your area. That hasnt changed. You can get a listing of the waymarks near caches too.

 

Better yet, forget the catagories alltogether. This was much better handled via virtual caches. Then I could just enter in an area and see everything in that area of interest.

 

That isnt going to happen. Much as I love virtuals, I know they wont come back. Which is why I got involved in the Best Kept Secrets category, that tries to recapture that thrill of a virtual. Why not work to make Waymarking exciting instead of trying to beat a dead horse. Virtuals wont be returning to geocaching.

[+tozainamboku]

A MISC category would never get approved (I hope). The point of Waymarking is to collect locations/objects that are in a category that some group of people have expressed an interest in. I like to point out that there were many requirements for getting a virtual cache approved on geocaching.com - not the least of which was the "Wow" requirement. The chances are that a statue of Jack Benny would not have passed the "Wow" requirement.

Signs, memorials, tombstones, statues or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches

I think of it this way. If there isn't a category for your waymark and you can't get one created then it doesn't meet the "Wow" requirement for waymarks. By the way, to get a geocache listed it has to meet certain requirements as well, so your argument that geocaches don't have to fit into a category isn't valid.

 

Hopefully, there will soon be a new category on Waymarking whose requirement is a little different. Best Kept Secret only requires that the object/location be relatively unknown to the locals. It is meant for people that have found an interesting (but unknown) place to share to be able to do it without having to force it into any existing category. Do most of the people in the area not know that Jack Benny's statue is there? Maybe they know there is a statue there but no one realizes that it is Jack Benny or why Jack Benny's statue is there (but could find out if they visited it). Didn't Jack Benny also play the violin? Maybe you should try the Muscian Statue category

[DRX]

A MISC category would never get approved (I hope).

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Why force your ways on everyone else? Perhaps someone makes a catagory I don't like, I just don't have to go to any of those locations. Why can't a MISC category exist, and you just filter it out if you don't like it?

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The point of Waymarking is to collect locations/objects that are in a category that some group of people have expressed an interest in.

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No, that is the way it is set up, there is no law that says it has to be that way. Better to have it where everyone puts up what they want, and then you can SEARCH for whatever it is you want. No categories needed, search words and search engines find what it is you want.

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I like to point out that there were many requirements for getting a virtual cache approved on geocaching.com

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Two wrongs don't make a right. There didn't have to be many requirements. There just were.

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- not the least of which was the "Wow" requirement. The chances are that a statue of Jack Benny would not have passed the "Wow" requirement.

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But thousands of ammo boxes in tree stumps are? What about the McDonald's category on this site? How does that meet the "Wow" requirement? See I am different. I would never go visit all the McDonalds, but I would never suggest that everyone else be restricted from doing those and posting those if they want to. I don't force my tastes on everyone else, I think we should all be allowed to post what we want.

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By the way, to get a geocache listed it has to meet certain requirements as well, so your argument that geocaches don't have to fit into a category isn't valid.

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It is valid, you just don't understand. If someone wants to put a geocache near a tree, they don't have to first make a tree category. If someone wants to hide a cache in a park, they don't have to first beg for a park category to be created. There are no categories. See, it was valid after all.

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Hopefully, there will soon be a new category on Waymarking whose requirement is a little different. Best Kept Secret only requires that the object/location be relatively unknown to the locals. It is meant for people that have found an interesting (but unknown) place to share to be able to do it without having to force it into any existing category.

---------------------------------

 

So long as everything has to have a category, then you guys are going to be spending most of your time debating and creating categories and it will take up more time than actually going out and finding and visiting the points of interest. Oh well, you will find this out yourself after a while.

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Do most of the people in the area not know that Jack Benny's statue is there?

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I didn't until two days ago. In fact, the house he lived in was torn down because the city didn't KNOW it was the house he lived in. So no, not everyone knows these things. Not even the officials of the cities they are in know these things. They are appologetic now, but it is too late.

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Maybe they know there is a statue there but no one realizes that it is Jack Benny or why Jack Benny's statue is there (but could find out if they visited it). Didn't Jack Benny also play the violin? Maybe you should try the Muscian Statue category

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See, in my opinion, that is too much of a hassle. Then I would wait a day or two to see if it got approved, and if not, I have to find another category. I could spend months doing that. It is not worth it, my time is more valuable to me. Forget it. If you guys don't want the Jack Benny statue, then it won't be on this site. Fine. You guys can continue with posting where all the Mcdonalds are. By the way, my GPS can find all the mcdonalds (and other restaurants) all on it's own with the detailed map software loaded in it, so I already have all the mcdonalds in North America on my GPS, and I bet many others do too.

 

Hey, sorry if I come across in a negative way, I just wanted to voice my opinion on why I don't like the system of this site. And why I won't be using it. Basically, the system doesn't ALLOW me to use it.

 

But it's not the end of the world, I can find other things to have fun with.

 

Good luck to all of you and your Waymarking.com

 

It's just not for me.

 

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[+Tsegi Mike and Desert Viking]

Your real gripe is about how virtuals are no longer on geocaching. You should take up your argument with TPTB, not the rest of us. We all have to live by what they have decided. We chose to try and make the best of it.

[+tozainamboku]

Your real gripe is about how virtuals are no longer on geocaching. You should take up your argument with TPTB, not the rest of us. We all have to live by what they have decided. We chose to try and make the best of it.

 

I don't think his gripe is that he can't create a virtual cache on geocaching.com. His problem is understanding Waymarking. It is not very intuitive and many people have the same issue. They have a location that they want to waymark. They get frustrated looking for a category. They find one that is close but not a match. Their waymark gets rejected. It would be easier if they could just create a waymark and not have categories.

 

There are all these sub-categories under statues. My statue doesn't fit any of them. Why isn't there an "Other Statues" category for these?

 

These people want YAGGS (Yet Another GPS Games Site), the waymark/waypoint everthing site. Either have no categories - just provide a description and coordinates and use a text search capability to find what you're looking for. Or have a formal taxonomy that is easily searched with place holder for "Other" at every level.

 

Waymarking is not set up to be that site. It is set up where communities/groups of individuals create waymarks of objects/locations in the categories that interest them. I have been impressed with the way the group concept has taken off and many new categories have been created. We had a difficult category to create for the "Wow" waymarkers - so it took a little longer. But still I was suprised how easy it was. DRX is welcome to come back if after thinking about he understands Waymarking better and can find a way to make it work for him. If not, Jeremy may want to think about that other site for Waymarking everything.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

Why categories?

 

Two reasons.

 

1.

The surface area of the Earth is approximately 200,000,000 square miles.

Imagining that there is, on the average, 1 thing that could be a waymark per square mile, then there's about 200 million possible waymarks on Earth.

 

I think this needs categorization.

 

2.

Who's going to manage all this Waymarking by category, to make sure which waymark goes in which category? Groundspeak doesn't want to try to do that, so it wants help ..... from us. It asks for help by giving some management authority to (groups of) people by category.

[+tozainamboku]

Why categories?

 

Two reasons.

 

1.

The surface area of the Earth is approximately 200,000,000 square miles.

Imagining that there is, on the average, 1 thing that could be a waymark per square mile, then there's about 200 million possible waymarks on Earth.

 

I think this needs categorization.

 

2.

Who's going to manage all this Waymarking by category, to make sure which waymark goes in which category? Groundspeak doesn't want to try to do that, so it wants help ..... from us. It asks for help by giving some management authority to (groups of) people by category.

 

I think you've missed the OP's point.

 

1) When the internet was young Yahoo started out as 'Yet Another Hierarchical Officious Oracle' that attemped to organinze the interenet into hierarchical categories. It was a wonderful way to find things for a while, but soon became too large and needed to be replaced by search engines that indexed pages by content. Google went step further and index not just on a pages content but on the content of pages that linked to the page. You don't need categories, a Google like search engine could be used to find waymarks.

 

2) If you don't have categories, you don't need category managers. You don't need to decide which waymark goes into which category, and you don't need Groundspeak to maintain a heirarchy of categories. What's more, you don't need to review any waymarks. (You might have wiki type interface to allow users to report/fix waymarks that have errors or that should be removed because some is using the site for some purpose other than creating a waymark)

 

Waymarking is not a site for Waymarking everything. It is now centered around groups of people who have an interest in Waymarking locations that fit into a particular category. (Historically, this grew out of the development of Waymarking as a replacement for locationless caches) The reason for 'Why Categories' is because that is what Waymarking is. The OP is asking for a different site.

Edited May 11, 2006 by tozainamboku

[+The Blue Quasar]

Maybe it's because all of us regulars have been here since week 1 or 2...

 

Waymarking is like the Video Store.... Sort the content by classification.

 

I agree with Bruce S when he said that it would be too annoying to have to sift through hundreds of Waymarks to find one that is appealing. Right now I can avoid the Categories that hold no interest to me at all.

 

The same is true on Geocaching.... don't like MICROS... avoid them... maybe you think LETTERBOX HYBRIDS are a waste of time... ignore!

 

If you want nothing organized... then you best start with Geocaching.... get all of the Cache Types removed and just have "Black Box".... no sizes either since they clutter up the page. No Terrain or Difficulty needed since you'll figure that out when you get there.

 

Listings would be something like.....

 

Cache #17432 at N 43d 01.234 x W 79d 56.789

 

and that would be it... pages and pages of Caches laid out like an Excel Spreadsheet

 

Wee!

 

No thanks... I prefer things with structure and detail. But what can you expect from me, I'm a Gemini born in the Year of the Monkey

 

The Blue Quasar

Edited May 11, 2006 by The Blue Quasar

[+Black Dog Trackers]

tozainamboku -

 

I agree that I likely missed the OP's point.

 

I must agree with Quasar and some others though, that a big pile of waymarks would somehow be rather less than exciting. I guess it's along the lines of the difference between collecting and gathering. If there's a category to collect in, to put waymarks in, to be a part of making the collection, it generates a feeling of challenge just by its categorical existence. It's like helping to build something! We're going to 'collect' every waterfall on the planet, with pictures! Cool! Adding to an amorphous gathering of interesting waymarks just doesn't have that same call, it seems to me.

 

(I realize that you didn't align yourself with the OP, or otherwise, so I don't know what your view is.)

[+tozainamboku]

(I realize that you didn't align yourself with the OP, or otherwise, so I don't know what your view is.)

 

Just so you know, I like Waymarking the way it is. It is much more exciting to have a few categories you are interested in and to find waymarks in these categories, or to visit waymarks that are in the categories you find interesting. Part of the problem with Virtual Caches was what one person thought was "wow" was another person's "why make this a virtual?" At least with a category you are interested in, you are likely to think the visit worthwhile.

 

We are taking a chance with the Best Kept Secrets category. Instead of just using the "Wow" requirement from Virtual caches, we asked a lot of people what made a virtual wow for them and found that often it was the suprise of getting taken to a place they didn't know was there. So we are trying this definition for a Waymarking category and will see how it works. I'm afraid we will get a lot of submissions from people like the OP who chose Best Kept Secrets just because they can't find another category for the place they want to waymark. The Eiffel Tower or Niagra Falls are not Best Kept Secrets. Even a statue of Jack Benny in Waukegan may be too well known.