Michaelcycle

The frequency of these kind of reports seems to have decreased in recent years. I assume that is due to the relatively recent cache hiding guideline that states "When you submit a cache page for review, add a Reviewer Note. Describe your geocache location, container, and how it is hidden." The cache in question is only a couple years old but I see that the CO replaced it earlier this year. Based on at least one prior finder's comment after the event I don't think that was the original container type. I don't know about New Zealand but pipe/end cap bombs are common in the USA. ATF data from 2019 indicate more than 50 actual explosions or discovery of unexploded devices of this type. They are top of mind for all law enforcement that respond to these events.

NGS may not "see" our logs posted to geocaching.com but many of those logs have directly strengthened the NOAA database through the efforts of Dave Doyle, retired NGS chief geodetic surveyor. DaveD posted this after learning of Groundspeak's misguided decision to shutter the benchmarking section and delete the logs and photos: "Many thanks to so many who have posted great pictures and hand-held positions that I've been able to harvest and improve the quality of tens of thousands of stations in the National Spatial Reference System" That's an impressive legacy for a hobby, perhaps on par with CITO events. It really should continue.

An open letter to Groundspeak administration: In the early 2000s a fledgling company, looking to expand its product line and thereby increase its customer base, imported a database of benchmarks that its customers could search and log from what is now know as NOAA. Over time the customers provided the necessary additional products (geocaches) to allow the company to survive and grow. To Groundspeak’s administration benchmarks became a forgotten backwater as evidenced by the benign neglect that the platform has endured for many years. Now this same administration wants to remove benchmarking and its remarkable compendium of logs and photographs, one of the elements that helped the company survive its infancy. Let’s examine the reasons that they have stated for this wrongheaded decision: The game is global and benchmarking is a United States pursuit. As others have stated, there are multiple geocaching pursuits that are all or nearly all US based among them the APE cache(s), the original stash plaque and various events limited to HQ and environs. So “globalism” does not make a compelling argument. Very few people engage in benchmarking so it doesn’t make economic sense to support it. This should be entered in a dictionary of “self fulfilling prophesies” as a quintessential example. I can think of no other segment of the Groundspeak universe that has received as little marketing and promotion as benchmarking. For quite some time you have had to stumble over it to find it compared to everything else. I know some people that primarily looked for benchmarks during the early part of the pandemic before much was known about the virus’s survivability on caches or other surfaces. Imagine what a boost it would have been to the hobby if Groundspeak had actively promoted benchmarking during that time. The code is old and upkeep is costly. Who’s fault is that? I am certain that the code running the geocache part of the platform is not from 2002. I’ve lived through outages (that I fully understand) caused by multiple upgrades over the years. The ONLY reason we are at this juncture is because administration decided not to spend the money years ago to do the maintenance needed on the benchmarking side. Now we, the paying customer, will pay the price by losing part of the game. Shame on you, Groundspeak, for failing to spend our money wisely. Speaking of spending our money wisely, now I turn to the excuse that the benchmarking code is getting in the way of new and exciting projects. I have no idea what those are because no one has shared that information. Unlike some members of this board I have no faith, based on the last decade of “innovations” some of which have gone by the wayside, that I and many like me will find them a good trade for removing benchmarking. Imagine if the money lost on some of those “innovations” had been directed at upgrading the benchmarking code. Groundspeak likes to talk about the “Language of Location” The language of location in the United States was established by the survey crews that gradually established the network of horizontal and vertical locations that enabled the building of roads and bridges, homes and factories, canals and railroads, cities and towns that made the USA. This was often backbreaking work in inhospitable conditions. It required axe work and lugging surveying chains as often as using precision instruments like theodolites. These precisely measured locations (whether horizontal, vertical or both) are still used today, even in the era of the Global Positioning System, to make sure that water doesn’t flow in the wrong direction, houses aren’t built on the wrong property and for many other reasons. As benchmarkers we have helped find missing markers and reported those that have been destroyed. As august a presence as Dave Doyle, retired NGS chief geodetic surveyor, recently said in the Benchmarking forum “Many thanks to so many who have posted great pictures and hand-held positions that I've been able to harvest and improve the quality of tens of thousands of stations in the National Spatial Reference System.” Perhaps if Jeremy, Bryan, Elias or one of the more public facing lackeys had ever made the hike to station Buttermilk, (https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=LX4113) the oldest surviving triangulation station in the country, they might have experienced the same sense of awe and history that I did when I visited that site. But none of them did, despite traveling to many parts of the USA to promote Groundspeak and its activities (and, for many of the lackeys, to geocache.) They might have learned with a little research that Ferdinand Hassler, the first superindentent of the US Coast Survey, spent two weeks in June of 1833 with his wagon of instruments and his survey team setting this mark. I’ve been to the Original Stash Plaque and the Tunnel of Light APE cache. They are certainly historical but not remotely in the same class as finding Station Buttermilk. The only things that have come close are finding TU2116 (https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=TU2116) a benchmark placed by the Republic of Hawaii (check your history boys and girls) in 1896 and GS0206 (https://www.geocaching.com/mark/details.aspx?PID=GS0206) a gravity station in Death Valley (there are as many types of “benchmarks” as there are geocaches, some as rare as webcams.) None of the solutions that have been proposed on this forum have the same functionality as the current system. Waymaking does not have the database, NGS DataExplorer does not have the photographs and NOAA certaily does not want recovery notes every few months on the more popular and easily found stations. Finally, eliminating benchmarking from this site would be the equivilant of burning down a unique and valuable library, a library that has played a far more valuable civic role than any other aspect of this hobby. The current situation of low usage and old code is primarliy the result of decisions, conscious or subconscious, made by Groundspeak’s administration over the years. These same people can fix the problem by spending the money to revamp the system and market the activity. To rather spend money to move the hobby further from its roots toward more instant gratification may result in short term gain but long term loss. I urge reconsideration of this decision. Benchmarking is this community’s connection to the history of geolocation. Let’s strengthen that connection, not lose it. Michaelcycle and Susancycle

It seems that HQ did not see the need to make a specific note to this effect on the Benchmarking forum so here is the link: I don't know if I have ever been more disappointed in a short-sighted decision by this organization,

Yet another reason for mandatory military service. (dons his Nomex)

126K-112K=14K but your point is still valid.

At some point during the night the app logged itself out. When I logged back in it worked fine.

I have the same problem. Running iOS 15.6 on an iPhone 12

All challenge caches, old and new, have logging requirements beyond finding the cache and signing the log. Taking your argument to its logical conclusion , Groundspeak should eliminate all challenge requirements because somebody doesn't like one requirement or another. That argument has already been debated and legislated 6 years ago. I will also point out that the ALRs you are referring to were not part of challenge caches.

In case this discussion has energized some geocachers to check their stats and start planning a trip to GC11E8N the place where it is hidden, Big Basin Redwoods State park (California's oldest state park, 1902) was burned over 97% of its acreage during the CZU fire in 2020. The cache has been disabled since that time. Kealia recently posted that limited reopening of the park is scheduled for 22July22 but access to GZ will not be available. The CO is watching and will replace/repair the cache when it is accessible. The good news is that the redwoods have survived for the most part and their presence will still be a fitting reward for anyone who succeeds in undertaking this challenge.

Your solution to failing to meet the requirements for logging does not square with who you profess to be in your profile. You have cached in every state but Alaska and Hawai'i and you have found more than 50 caches in many of those states. If you had "checked the nuance rules" ie., read the cache page fully first, you could easily have fulfilled the current requirements for the Maryland Fizzy, GC16QQZ, which had an original cut-off date of 4JULY08. The CO has advanced that 5 years to 4July13. (As an FYI the cut-off date is not the only additional requirement, the 81 caches must contain 9 specified cache types in keeping with the original Fizzy Challenge GC11E8N.) Dated restricted Fizzy are difficult (I planned and worked very hard and it took a long time to complete and log the original) but so are lots of other old (and even some new) challenges. When I finished I was exhilarated! That is not the feeling you will have if you log a cache without meeting the requirements. You recently logged a challenge that required 25 EarthCaches in 25 states. Not surprising, ECs are something you enjoy and I suspect you travel mostly by car but I doubt I will ever meet that requirement. Maybe the CO could lower the number to the 18 states where I do have ECs? Ok, so that was sarcasm. I would rather you got the feeling of logging a Fizzy Challenge legitimately so I did some research. Here are two Fizzys that you do meet the requirements for that for a traveler like you would surely be considered local: GC799TJ and GC98CHJ Good luck and keep chipping away on that Maryland Fizzy, it's a nice climb to GZ. As for Alaska and Hawai'i, go, you'll never forget them (be sure to visit the Big Island and take the train from Anchorage to Fairbanks to really experience both )

I would be happy to be a character witness if you decide to appeal terratin. (Not that the word of a rogue like me would carry much weight)

Unfortunately you and many others I see by reviewing the logs did not find the benchmark. As indicated by the arrow and the "NO 2" stamped on the disk what you found is a reference mark. Without going into a long discussion of station types I will just note that these marks are placed as aids to finding the actual benchmark (if you followed that arrow you would find the benchmark) and as backups in case the original benchmark gets destroyed, buried, etc.Benchmarking is a great hobby I suggest you start here https://www.geocaching.com/mark/ as TriciaG recommended and the first post in the Benchmarking forum My friend geoawareUSA9 is correct, the benchmark you were looking for is TU3081 (look up "PID" in those references I listed) The reference mark that you found is NOT listed so you cannot log it.

I have completed many mystery cache puzzles that took longer inside to solve than they did outside to find. At least half the events I have attended have been inside. Most of the conversations I have at events are not about geocaching. They are more likely to be about the things that people "talked" about in the "Cheers" topic in Off Topic: jokes, family, travel personal triumphs and travails, hopes, fears and dreams. Private groups get new members by invitation. For Off Topic all you needed was the cost of a GS membership and the curiosity to click on that forum. As for moderating, I will leave that for another post in the future. I have yet to frame my comments adequately regarding the historical moderating of that forum (at least since 2007)

As I said on Cheers I will not allow Zuckerberg and his ilk to monetize my personal data. Even in a "closed" FB group they they still closely analyze everything that goes on there. Whatever else might be said about Groundspeak I don't think that degree of scrutiny occurred in Off Topic.

Thanks for your efforts Dave, that's great! My benchmarking has slowed down some lately but I always try to include a detail, an eye level and a westward looking setting photo for each benchmark I find. I will try to include handheld coordinates for any scaled marks I find from now on (and maybe go back and get them for some local marks.)

Here is the problem: I live less than ten miles (the default search distance from "home") from another state." So what?" I hear you say. "What" is that there is a large river between me and that other state only crossable by a handful of toll bridges. I rarely have interest in crossing any of those bridges for geocaching so the "out of my home state" caches in the search result are an annoyance that I have to pick through. For a long time there was a way to delimit the search to a specific state as well as a specific distance from home. In another part of my state a cacher's ten mile from home search will include caches across a bay that will require crossing a toll bridge and a 100 minute drive! I know that in other parts of my country there are even more dramatic examples. I have cached by bicycle in enough countries to know that caches can be few and far between in some places in the world. That is not the point. The point is that a cacher used to be able to select a location, a distance and a state all in a single search.

It is a private survey marker in California

elrojo14: Since you are revising this topic I must point this out from the "to err is human" department. Please go back and re-read the first sentence of your opening post. Then re-read my reply. I never responded to your reply because it was evident you missed the obvious. So here is a second chance to get the joke and enjoy a self-reflective smile.

Suggest you read this: https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/ I have abstracted two paragraphs of interest: "For example, GPS-enabled smartphones are typically accurate to within a 4.9 m (16 ft.) radius under open sky However, their accuracy worsens near buildings, bridges, and trees. High-end users boost GPS accuracy with dual-frequency receivers and/or augmentation systems. These can enable real-time positioning within a few centimeters, and long-term measurements at the millimeter level." (my bolding) "Using two GPS frequencies improves accuracy by correcting signal distortions caused by Earth's atmosphere. Dual-frequency GPS equipment is commercially available for civilian use, but its cost and size has limited it to professional applications." So, yes, your hand-held GPSr or smartphone is limited to +/- 4 m in good conditions. But those high end systems have been in use for surveying for some time now. When you are laying out roads, bridges and housing developments you need a lot better accuracy than +/- 4 m.

New county souvenir: Ecuador! I'm not doing any traveling but I am racking up some souvenirs from places we have cached in the past. Pretty cool to stand on the equator: Had to dodge traffic in a busy street to get this: As for the souvenir artwork I think they should have included the Galapagos hawk, they were everywhere at Bartolome and fearless:

I believe that Juvenal and Swift would recognize what the OP has called his "Modest Proposal"

That is not true. If you type the name of my town (the "place" the post office recognizes) into Google you will see a place on the map so labeled. But there are no boundaries on that map because there are none. It has no government or any other hallmark of a "town" With the exception of incorporated towns (Woodbury, NJ would be a nearby example) "townships" are the bounded units of location with associated governments in my state (and at least one other that I am aware of) and those townships may contain several towns.

I don't know any geocachers that live in a library (although, before the pandemic, I visited my local library twice a month) so they had to go outdoors to go to those events.

Sure, Johns Hopkins School of Medicine ( as former faculty I have pretty good faith in their reporting with the caveat that given the woeful lack of testing nationwide no one's numbers are really accurate): https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/new-cases day to day numbers second graph (left side of page) One more day was added since I first posted, also slightly down from yesterday.