Z15

When I was on the job GPS-ing, I would carry a can of quick drying black spray paint and spray the survey disk, allow is to set a minute or so, then wipe away the paint with a rag. The paint will stay in the cast in and stamped digits making show up in the photo.

You are mixing apples and oranges CGS did not set that mark, if you read the description quote:EH2910'THIS STONE MARKS THE BASE ESTABLISHED NOV. 10 1815 FROM WHICH EH2910'THE LANDS OF THE LOUISIANA PURCHASE WERE SURVEYED BY THE EH2910'UNITED STATES ENGINEERS. THE FIRST SURVEY FROM THIS POINT WAS EH2910'MADE TO SATISFY THE CLAIM OF THE SOLDIERS OF THE WAR OF 1812 EH2910'WITH LAND BOUNTIES. ERECTED BY THE ARKANSAS DAUGHTERS OF THE EH2910'AMERICAN REVOLUTION. SPONSORED BY THE LANGUILLE CHAPTER. CGS just put a geographical position to the mark and that what they mean by monumented 1965. Maybe you want to start a new career? Here is a LINK to Survey info sites [This message was edited by elcamino on March 09, 2003 at 06:50 PM.]

The BLM is part of the Dept of the Interior, not the DoD. I have found marks like that around here. They are set by the NPS resident surveyor or his contract surveyor, for work in the Nat't Forest or Nat'l Park etc. The ones here are GPS control for boudary determination. No public information is usually available. Some around here were set by a private contractor called GLO Retracement Inc. Cadestral involves Land Surveying, e.g. property boundarys Geodetic involves the study of the earth, lat and long, elevation, crustal motion [This message was edited by elcamino on March 09, 2003 at 09:48 AM.]

Yes and No They use the marks for many reasons, not all geodetic. I have found them in piers, docks etc and related to the costruction on the pier, i.e. a refernce point in the plans. Not all are documented. For instance around the Soo locks on the Great Lakes, there are C of E marks, DMA marks, USGS and NGS marks all over the place. The C of E marks, info is only available at the Soo Locks. I once saw a map at the CE office in the Soo that show 100's of control marks along the St Marys River, on both side of Lake Superior. All major waterways are under CE jurisdiction. If they are not in the NGS db, forget about them. There is no public database that I am aware of. A lot of the info is for Corp use only.

It stands for Defense Mapping Agency Topographic Center - Geodetic Survey Squadron Link to GSS info

BERNSTEN is the exclusive distributor for Carsonite Survey post and boundary markers. I had a collection of these old signs at work but I did not take them when I retired, others had contributed and it was now property of the State DOT. I still have some of the metal NGS signs (new). [This message was edited by elcamino on March 08, 2003 at 04:43 AM.]

Now the gov't got-ya. The left a tracer on your pc so they can track you every move in case your are in with UBL. LOL There are those that will beleive this. LOL btw-I must be in there several hundred times from all the recoverys I did for my former employer (DOT).

CARSONITE is a brand name, they invented these types of fiberglass witness posts. They are all styles and colors. MORE STYLES btw The first image of the metal sign come in several diiferent organizations I have found identical signs that say, US Geological Survey Coast and Geodetic Survey (2 different styles, one with DC zip code and one without DC zip code) [This message was edited by elcamino on March 07, 2003 at 08:01 AM.]

That kind of looks like a ground water monitoring well. Its does not appear to be the mark you are looking for unless it is buried and this is the access to it?

How would you go about finding them all? Seems not worth the effort. NGS maintains all marks in their records, even destroyed marks. While the NGS database does not list any info for this mark, there may exist more info in some other form (e.g. map, old survey field notes, in some other agency's records etc) and may be usefull some time in the future. Lot of the marks in the NGS database were entered by contract people going thru records and entering the data. Newer additions are done with software used by the field partys and loaded into the datebase by staff.

quote:Originally posted by Juanbob:How do I change my two 1942 recovered In 2002 by INDIV to Groundspeak or whatever? That is too cool we are not just total flunkie losers anymore! Juanbob I would just leave them as is. Its just to much of a hassel to bother them with a change like this. As long as the recovery is noted, thats the important thing.

If you did not find anything, no. It said, object driven into the ground. Very vague and no way you could ever confirm something like this. It may have just been a wooden stake, who knows? Did you find anything remotely resembling something driven into the ground? A iron pipe, pin or anything? If not I say, forget about it and look for something that is more defined.

Are you referring to the type with the aluminum hinged or screwed on cover? It would be ok to open them up and look at the mark etc. As long as you do not damage it.

Its a land corner that appears to be a 1/4 section corner

As to why the recovery notes do not seem to be a frequent in later years as before. In the last 20 yrs, the number of people working in the field for NGS, USGS and other federal and state agency's has dwindled to very few. Budget cuts etc. NGS has less than 100 field employees doing survey work from what I was told by our former state advisor. Last I heard they only had 2 level party's and relied on college interns to do the most of the field work. When we did the HARN for Michigan, about 95% of the NGS staff were these people. NGS only had about 6-8 4x4 suburbans and equipment, the rest was borrowed from MDOT and local surveyors. Also we have been doing recoverys for 20 yrs but NGS would only accept them in thier format which often required a lot of extra paperwork on our part. We were often told to not report any mark that was found and in good condition becuase they (NGS) did not want it nor did they have the people and time to process it. Within the last 10 yrs or some, they computerized all this data and that made it more manageable. Seems people today are so used to computers and databases etc, they think its been that was forever .

quote:Originally posted by eahousley:I have read several threads here that have expressed how markers are not to be disturbed, collected, sold on EBay, whatever. On my recent BM expeditions, I have encountered several sites where the marker was obviously destroyed or covered up by construction or development; situations where there was probably a great deal of surveying activity. If these things are so sacred, why aren't their destruction documented in the markers' official history? -- Its from aliens. I seen um. -- Well, unfortunately many don't notify NGS of the destruction. A great deal of people use these marks but won't take the time to report on the condition. For NGS to assume the mark is destroyed, they require proof. When is has been confirmed, they remove it from the database but they maintain the record in the event its ever needed. e.g. The report of its demise is not correct. About 3 yrs back I found a USGS Bench Mark that had been reported by one of thier own partys as lost. Turned out it was shown on our 1941 highway plans with a station and offset. After recovering some of the original survey points for the highway (US41) we noticed they had only filled (grade lift) and paved the route in 1950 and when we found the location, dug down some 30 inches we found the concrete post in its original position. We confirmed that the elevation was not disturbed. [This message was edited by elcamino on February 18, 2003 at 01:46 PM.]

You got to be carefull, you can be charged with trespassing. In most states, Surveyors are immune from Trespass laws, if the are on official business, have Identification and are in cearly marked vehicle's. Of course this does not mean they can just go anywhere, they has to respect the property and owners as seek permission. Note -Not all public property is open to the public. The cops are going to hassel you sooner or later hunting for geodetic control. Heck, I worked for state gov't for 31 yrs and there were a couple of times they gave us a hard time for reasons unknown to us. Just trying to show us who was in charge.

In Michigan, most all the private PS's and gov't agency's have are in contact with the NGS advisor on marks in danger. We (MDOT) would often supply the NGS disk (we had stach of disk & wit post) to a local surveyor or reset the mark ourselves as most did not have the equipment of expertise to do the work, not to mention the cost of materials and manpower. My PS was involved with the local PS society and they would often contact us and tell us of impending doom of the mark. Also, many of them would contact the state advisor, get the mark and a suppply of witness posts from him. The NGS advisor would always come to the annual PS state conventions and push for cooperation from the PS. Also many PS's were involved with the state HARN and when we postioned our STATEWIDE CORS

There is a fine and possible jail time for removing or distubing these marks. Don't know if the law is ever enforced or still valid. Some of the older survey disks have a statement about that. I suppose someone took offense to selling these as they could become a object for collectors and then fools would be ripping them out to sell for a quick $$.

Here's some software that will give you this, its once of the utilities CORPSCON

It means whom it was monumented by was researched by not found. It does not pertain to the survey mark. The survey data did not identify who set the mark, e.g. what agency etc. Monumented means first set or established, i.e. did not exist prior to this date.

The SE 1/4 of the SW 1/4 contains 40 acres more or less, 1320 ft x 1320 ft. This is only in general terms, in reality it will not be this exact. I would go to the local court house or where ever the record land corners in you city state. Look and see if any of the corners for this parcel are recorded. Then co out and see if you can find them. Then use your GPS to log the waypoints of the section corners. This could turn into a major project if you know litle about land surveys etc

X marks the spot. They paint them so they can locate them on the photo.

I use to get paid to do this, my job (retired) was with the M-DOT Surveys. I probably have visited at least 1000 of these marks in the state of Michgian + some in Wisconsin.

It looks like you have the spot. The closeup without a reference gave a false impression of the size. Its a good idea to use a tape measure etc to scale the photo's. I would log is a poor, disturbed or mutilated. There is no way to know how the disk came to be missing, it could have been hit by some piece of equipment etc and the position may be questionable. Also, these are often the prize for souviner hunters. I have seen where a contractor uprooted the complete concrete monument from the ground. When we came back to the site several weeks later to claim the disk, someone had dug a hole and put the old conrete post back into the ground as if nothing had changed. We had to remove it. I also found a BM in a concrete pad for a memorial about 30 yrs back. About 1 yrs ago we needed a BM for GPS and I went back to the same location only to find the complete memorial had been relocated some 1000 feet to a new location with the original disk untouched. My boss and I went to remove the stamping on the disk per instructions from the NGS advisor only to find the memorial had been moved again but this time the bse broke and the had to construct a new one. We could not find the disk. This was at a local airport.