Z15

There is lots of info on the NGS site on this but there is a book called Manual of Geodetic Triangulation that has much more detail. It was the bible the crews used in the field. Its C&GS Special Publication 247. Manual of geodetic triangulation by Gossett, Franklin R., January 1950, 344 p., $25.00 available from NGS for purchase. NGS distributes some of these publications as a consigned sales agent of the U.S. Government Printing Office. Publications in this booklet may be ordered, prepaid by personal check or money order ( payable to DOC/NOAA), or by VISA, MasterCard, Discover or American Express from the: National Geodetic Information Branch N/CG174, SSMC3 Room 9202 National Geodetic Survey, NOAA Silver Spring, MD 20910 Telephone: 1-301-713-3242; Fax Telephone: 1-301-713-4172 Office Hours: 8:00am -4:30pm EST Link to all publications Many old photo's of the crews in action, the equipment and the procedures to follow. Some of the photo's are on the NGS historical site but its very few. Also some years back, Professional Surveyor Magazine had a story with photo's of the Coast and Geodetic Survey triangulation party doing a survey in the midwest. I have looked long and hard for my copy but cannnot locate it anymore. It was within the last 5 yrs. [This message was edited by elcamino on April 01, 2003 at 05:33 AM.]

ALso it should be noted that a great many local surveyors rarely if ever use the triangulation stations or other horizontal control in thier everyday work. Many use the bench marks if avaialble and needed in thier projects. They don't need that data for property surveying or retracing section lines. But for the most part, the small the outfit, the less they need or will use the NGS info. Survey grade GPS equipment can set you back a good sum of money. While I worked for the DOT, we used Leice GPS System 500 Geodetic grade and RTK. 3 receivers and all the associated tools cost approx. $75,000 per crew with one base station and two rover RTK units. Funny story on the local news one day last fall. Seems this surveyor for a big land company was doing some GPS work and had one of his receivers sitting on a 1/4 section corner and they were up to a mile aways setting more corners when someone up and stole his equipment. They even broadcast on the radio for anyone who may have seen someone take the equipment. The next morning a deputy sheriff stopped at the coounty highway department office and told the surveyor, you forgot your GPS equipment along side of county road x which is on my way home. That when he found out, it was not the county equipment he had but the stuff that was reported stolen the evening before. He must have felt like a fool.

Yes, a reset BM replaces to existing one. E 146 RESET is new and E 146 is the old one. Now, that said, it could be the both are still in existance. Often a RESET mark is established because the existing mark is in danger of being destroyed now or in the future or its in a high risk area that could affect its longevity. In my area I know of several marks that were reset by NGS in 1972 but the originals are still there. I think the reason they reset them was the nature of the setting, one close to RR could easily be destroyed, another is in a small old bridge. I also worked for the MDOT and often reset these marks myself. There are several I know of that were expected to be destroyed by construction but later changes to plans did not. So, there is no one answer but a RESET mark usually means the original is lost or inaccessible.

Without seeing exactly what you are describing, I would say they have nothing to do with the BM. They are probably property corners etc.

Another reason for the RM's was to verify the station position. Anytime you reset a station from the RM's or the underground mark, NGS will downgrade the position to 3rd order class.

No, they do not set RM's or underground marks anymore. Azi marks are still being set but not from astromonical observations, e.g the North Star (Polaris) was the method usd to establish an Azi on triangulation surveys. With GPS, its much easier to recreate the position or even establish a new position for any work. [This message was edited by elcamino on March 30, 2003 at 09:18 AM.]

There are some marks that you are just going to have to forget about. Box's in the middle of the road is one of them. I worked for the MDOT for 31 yrs and can tell you some of these monument box require a jack hammer to remover the cover and that often damages it. The DOT requires a permit to work in the highway and you need all kinds of safety equipment, signs, flashing lights, hard hats etc. You can be fined for doign this, it endagers you and the public travelling the roads. We were urged to report anyone and anybody working on state highways who were not properly equiped, the state could be held liable if we overlooked these instances. Also we had one PS from a consulting company killed working near US-2. He was walking down the shoulder and he was hit from behind. STAY OUT OF THE ROAD I have to agree with the others, if you don't see the actual survey marker as described, you did not find it.

Its still there. I was working on a project for MDOT and we found it. Its a popular tourist attraction. quote: The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.DATABASE = Sybase ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 6.73 1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 27, 2003 SG0161 *********************************************************************** SG0161 DESIGNATION - EAGLE HARBOR LH MIGS SG0161 PID - SG0161 SG0161 STATE/COUNTY- MI/KEWEENAW SG0161 USGS QUAD - EAGLE HARBOR (1975) SG0161 SG0161 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL SG0161 ___________________________________________________________________ SG0161* NAD 83(1994)- 47 27 34.82951(N) 088 09 33.12729(W) ADJUSTED SG0161* NAVD 88 - 408. (meters) 1339. (feet) SCALED SG0161 ___________________________________________________________________ SG0161 LAPLACE CORR- -5.19 (seconds) DEFLEC99 SG0161 GEOID HEIGHT- -34.84 (meters) GEOID99 SG0161 SG0161 HORZ ORDER - THIRD SG0161 SG0161.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods SG0161.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in February 1997. SG0161 SG0161.The orthometric height was scaled from a topographic map. SG0161 SG0161.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections. SG0161 SG0161.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99. SG0161 SG0161; North East Units Scale Converg. SG0161;SPC MI N - 298,123.553 7,912,587.901 MT 1.00011377 -0 50 16.3 SG0161;UTM 16 - 5,256,899.419 412,630.195 MT 0.99969381 -0 51 15.0 SG0161 SG0161: Primary Azimuth Mark Grid Az SG0161:SPC MI N - WEST BLUFF 2 088 39 30.7 SG0161:UTM 16 - WEST BLUFF 2 088 40 29.4 SG0161 SG0161|---------------------------------------------------------------------| SG0161| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az | SG0161| dddmmss.s | SG0161| TY7767 WEST BLUFF 2 APPROX.14.4 KM 0874914.4 | SG0161|---------------------------------------------------------------------| SG0161 SG0161 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL SG0161 SG0161 NAD 83(1986)- 47 27 34.81835(N) 088 09 33.09922(W) AD( ) 3 SG0161 NAD 27 - 47 27 35.13000(N) 088 09 32.70200(W) AD( ) 3 SG0161 SG0161.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control. SG0161.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums. SG0161.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived. SG0161 SG0161_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TDT1263056899(NAD 83) SG0161_MARKER: 13 = LIGHTHOUSE SG0161_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS NOT SUITABLE FOR SG0161+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - September 04, 2000 SG0161 SG0161 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By SG0161 HISTORY - 1934 FIRST OBSERVED MIGS SG0161 HISTORY - 20000904 GOOD MIDT SG0161 SG0161 STATION DESCRIPTION SG0161 SG0161'DESCRIBED BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2000 (MPR) SG0161'THE LIGHTHOUSE IS A HISTORICAL LANDMARK AND POPULAR TOURIST SG0161'ATTRACTION. IT IS LOCATED IN EAGLE HARBOR JUST OFF STATE HIGHWAY SG0161'M-26, THE LIGHT IS OPERATIONAL. *** retrieval complete. Elapsed Time = 00:00:01

I think they may be outside of the range of the search. The recovery portion should not factor into the search.

I would bet the station was destroyed when they were doing survey and they used the RM as the new station. I have seen this before. To know why you would need to find the person in charge and ask them. Hard to know thier motives today. But like I said, I have seen it before. We have used RM's and Azi's as new control stations using GPS. The monument is there, why not use it if you can. Here one with the reason the used a RM as the new station. quote: The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.DATABASE = Sybase ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 6.73 1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 26, 2003 RK0500 *********************************************************************** RK0500 DESIGNATION - SKANDIA RK0500 PID - RK0500 RK0500 STATE/COUNTY- MI/MARQUETTE RK0500 USGS QUAD - CARLSHEND (1985) RK0500 RK0500 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL RK0500 ___________________________________________________________________ RK0500* NAD 83(1994)- 46 21 12.62050(N) 087 13 12.99273(W) ADJUSTED RK0500* NAVD 88 - 337. (meters) 1106. (feet) SCALED RK0500 ___________________________________________________________________ RK0500 LAPLACE CORR- -3.09 (seconds) DEFLEC99 RK0500 GEOID HEIGHT- -34.65 (meters) GEOID99 RK0500 RK0500 HORZ ORDER - FIRST RK0500 RK0500.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods RK0500.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in February 1997. RK0500 RK0500.The orthometric height was scaled from a topographic map. RK0500 RK0500.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections. RK0500 RK0500.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99. RK0500 RK0500; North East Units Scale Converg. RK0500;SPC MI N - 174,539.013 7,983,047.362 MT 0.99990354 -0 09 33.2 RK0500;UTM 16 - 5,133,349.193 483,052.488 MT 0.99960353 -0 09 33.8 RK0500 RK0500: Primary Azimuth Mark Grid Az RK0500:SPC MI N - GWINN 249 35 04.7 RK0500:UTM 16 - GWINN 249 35 05.3 RK0500 RK0500|---------------------------------------------------------------------| RK0500| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az | RK0500| dddmmss.s | RK0500| RK0502 DUKES LOOKOUT TOWER APPROX. 7.1 KM 0950955.3 | RK0500| RK0503 SKANDIA RM 3 1975 6.470 METERS 14558 | RK0500| CJ2784 SKANDIA AZ MK 1672556.3 | RK0500| CJ2785 SKANDIA RM 1 39.176 METERS 18632 | RK0500| RK0523 FORSYTH BELL TEL CO MICROWAVE APPROX. 8.6 KM 2331407.1 | RK0500| RK0534 GWINN APPROX.21.9 KM 2492531.5 | RK0500| RK0499 SKANDIA 1955 RM 2 9.832 METERS 28350 | RK0500| RK0544 SUMMIT MTN TV STA WLUC MAST APPROX.33.3 KM 2884949.6 | RK0500| RK0484 PRESQUE ISLE HBR BREAKWATER LT APPROX.27.2 KM 3341532.3 | RK0500|---------------------------------------------------------------------| RK0500 RK0500 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL RK0500 RK0500 NAD 83(1986)- 46 21 12.61510(N) 087 13 12.99052(W) AD( ) 1 RK0500 NAD 27 - 46 21 12.82300(N) 087 13 12.47400(W) AD( ) 1 RK0500 RK0500.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control. RK0500.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums. RK0500.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived. RK0500 RK0500_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TDS8305233349(NAD 83) RK0500_MARKER: DS = TRIANGULATION STATION DISK RK0500_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT RK0500_STAMPING: SKANDIA 1955 RK0500_MARK LOGO: CGS RK0500_MAGNETIC: N = NO MAGNETIC MATERIAL RK0500_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO RK0500+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION RK0500_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS NOT SUITABLE FOR RK0500+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - May 25, 2000 RK0500 RK0500 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By RK0500 HISTORY - 1955 MONUMENTED CGS RK0500 HISTORY - 1961 GOOD CGS RK0500 HISTORY - 1975 GOOD NGS RK0500 HISTORY - 19920929 GOOD USPSQD RK0500 HISTORY - 19950207 GOOD LOCENG RK0500 HISTORY - 20000525 GOOD MIDT RK0500 RK0500 STATION DESCRIPTION RK0500 RK0500'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1955 (NET) RK0500'THE STATION IS IN SECTION 29, T. 46 N., R. 23 W., ON THE WESTERN SIDE RK0500'OF THE U. S. FOREST SERVICE EXPERIMENTAL AREA AND ON GOVERNMENT RK0500'PROPERTY. IT IS 7 MILES NORTHEAST OF LITTLE LAKE, 2 MILES RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF SKANDIA AND 100 FEET EAST OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41. RK0500' RK0500'TO REACH FROM SKANDIA, GO SOUTHEASTERLY ON U. S. HIGHWAY 41 FOR 2.0 RK0500'MILES TO THE SKANDIA LOOKOUT TOWER ON THE LEFT AND THE STATION ON RK0500'THE LEFT APPROXIMATELY 20 FEET ABOVE THE SURFACE OF THE ROAD. RK0500' RK0500'THE STATION MARK, STAMPED SKANDIA 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK SET IN A RK0500'SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 1 INCH. IT IS 27.7 FEET RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF THE NORTHEAST LEG OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 20.2 FEET EAST RK0500'OF THE SOUTHEAST LEG OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 21.3 FEET WEST OF A RK0500'12-INCH TREE WITH A TRIANGLE BLAZE ON THE WEST SIDE AND 3.6 FEET RK0500'SOUTHWEST OF A WHITE WITNESS POST. RK0500' RK0500'REFERENCE MARK NO. 1, STAMPED SKANDIA NO 1 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK RK0500'SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 2 INCHES. IT IS 46.7 RK0500'FEET EAST OF THE CENTER LINE OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41, 30 FEET SOUTH OF RK0500'THE CENTER OF THE DRIVEWAY TO THE LOOKOUT TOWER, 29 FEET WEST OF RK0500'A 30-INCH TREE WITH A TRIANGLE BLAZE ON THE WEST SIDE AND ABOUT 15 RK0500'FEET LOWER THAN THE STATION. RK0500' RK0500'REFERENCE MARK NO. 2, STAMPED SKANDIA NO 2 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK RK0500'SET IN A SQUARE CONCRETE POST THAT PROJECTS 6 INCHES. IT IS IN THE RK0500'CENTER OF THE BASE OF THE LOOKOUT TOWER AND AT APPROXIMATELY THE RK0500'SAME ELEVATION AS THE STATION. RK0500' RK0500'THE AZIMUTH MARK, STAMPED SKANDIA 1955, IS A STANDARD DISK SET IN A RK0500'SQUARE CONCRETE POST WHICH PROJECTS 12 INCHES. IT IS 80.3 FEET RK0500'SOUTHEAST OF A SIGN ADVERTISING HOMELITE CHAIN SAWS, 53.5 FEET WEST RK0500'OF THE CENTER LINE OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41, 15.6 FEET EAST OF A FENCE AND RK0500'3 FEET NORTHEAST OF A WHITE WITNESS POST. RK0500' RK0500'TO REACH THE AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE STATION, GO SOUTHERLY ON U. S. RK0500'HIGHWAY 41 AND 0.45 MILE TO THE JUNCTION OF U. S. HIGHWAY 41 AND RK0500'STATE HIGHWAY 94, CONTINUE SOUTH FOR 94 YARDS TO THE AZIMUTH MARK ON RK0500'THE RIGHT. RK0500' RK0500'A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CLEARING WILL BE NECESSARY TO SET THE RK0500'AZIMUTH MARK FROM THE GROUND. RK0500' RK0500'HEIGHT OF LIGHT ABOVE STATION MARK 37 METERS. RK0500 RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1961) RK0500 RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1961 (CAA) RK0500'THE STATION WAS RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED IN THE 1955 DESCRIPTION AND RK0500'ALL MARKS WERE FOUND TO BE IN GOOD CONDITION. RK0500' RK0500'THE ORIGINAL DESCRIPTION IS ADEQUATE. RK0500' RK0500'THE DIRECTION TO ALL MARKS WERE CHECKED AND FOUND TO BE CORRECT, THE RK0500'DISTANCE TO R. M. NO. 2. CHECKED AND A SLIGHT DIFFERENCE WAS FOUND RK0500'IN THE DISTANCE TO RM. NO. 1. RK0500' RK0500'A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF CLEARING IS NECESSARY TO MAKE THE AZIMUTH RK0500'MARK VISIBLE FROM THE GROUND AT THE STATION. RK0500 RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1975) RK0500 RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1975 (JLC) RK0500'THE STATION MARK, REFERENCE MARKS 1 AND 2 WERE RECOVERED AND FOUND IN RK0500'GOOD CONDITION. THE AZIMUTH MARK HAS BEEN DESTROYED, NO SUITABLE RK0500'PLACE TO ESTABLISH A NEW MARK. THE HORIZONTAL DIRECTIONS CHECKED RK0500'BETWEEN THE REFERENCE MARKS ADEQUATELY, HOWEVER, THE DISTANCE TO RK0500'REFERENCE MARK 1 WAS IN DIFFERENCE OF 0.007 METER LONGER, RK0500'DISTANCE TO REFERENCE MARK 2 CHECKED ADEQUATELY. DUE TO FENCE RK0500'AROUND THE STATION MARK A NEW REFERENCE 3 WAS ESTABLISHED AND ALL RK0500'OBSERVATIONS OBSERVED FROM A 103 FOOT TOWER. FOR ADDITIONAL RK0500'INFORMATION SEE DESCRIPTION FOR SKANDIA RM 3. RK0500' RK0500'AIRLINE DISTANCE AND DIRECTION FROM NEAREST TOWN--2 MILES SOUTHEAST RK0500'OF SKANDIA. RK0500 RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1992) RK0500 RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 1992 (AEA) RK0500'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. RK0500 RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (1995) RK0500 RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY LOCAL ENGINEER (INDIVIDUAL OR FIRM) 1995 RK0500'RECOVERED AS DESCRIBED. RK0500 RK0500 STATION RECOVERY (2000) RK0500 RK0500'RECOVERY NOTE BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2000 (MPR) RK0500'1 FT SOUTHWEST OF A WITNESS POST AND FLUSH WITH THE GROUND. *** retrieval complete. Elapsed Time = 00:00:07

Here's what I found once and it baffled me for some time till I just happened to be driving by the location on the 4th of July. We were searching for a USGS BM in a 8" concrete post. We found a 8" concrete post near the location and in front of a VA hosiptal. I was not convinced we found it because there was no disk just a 1" iron pipe flush with the surface. Some USGS marks in this area are bronze disks screwed onto iron pipes. When I drove by the location on the 4th of July, there were flags every 100 feet or so lining the Blvd. stucking in the iron pipes in the concrete posts. Must have been about 50 of them.

The light is the target which the surveyors sighted upon and it was usually the highest point on the towers. Triangulation was done at night because there was better visibilibty and that produced less errors cause by daytime heat etc. Also it afforded the tower building party's the days to build the towers, the survey party worked the nights and then they took them down the next day and move them to another site for the next night. btw-It only took then a few hours to erect the towers.

It is not the one you are looking for but you knew that, right. quote:EE1146_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16SFD195089(NAD 83) EE1146_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK EE1146_SETTING: 66 = SET IN ROCK OUTCROP EE1146_STAMPING: C 245 1947 EE1146_STABILITY: A = MOST RELIABLE AND EXPECTED TO HOLD EE1146+STABILITY: POSITION/ELEVATION WELL No telling what that could be, could be some local control, property corner or nothing.

You have found some omitted information in the description. There are probably over 1 million + control marks in existance and there are bound to be errors and omissions in the descriptions. Most of the time it just one person typing this data into a program and then its loaded into the database sometime later. Not much you can do. It is what it is. If you find the marks, you could include references in you revised description. But keep in mind, for it to be of any use it has to be done with care and precision. example Bearing from RM to station mark - S 30 deg E Distance from RM to station mark - 45.09 ft (noting if slope or horizonal distance and weather RM is higher or lower that station mark) This can involve some work and is best left for the professionals.

I would avoid marks like this. Just going to look at it is not a good reason. Move on to something more public and avoid the hassels.

One of our student Land Surveyors finally found this mark by using differential GPS he mounted on his 4 wheeler. Took him and his girl friend about 4 hrs to find it and it was he 3rd trek into look for this. They were covered over with about 1 foot of loose soil. quote:The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.DATABASE = Sybase ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 6.73 1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 18, 2003 SG0156 *********************************************************************** SG0156 DESIGNATION - MOUNT LOOKOUT 2 MIGS 1934 SG0156 PID - SG0156 SG0156 STATE/COUNTY- MI/KEWEENAW SG0156 USGS QUAD - DELAWARE (1997) SG0156 SG0156 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL SG0156 ___________________________________________________________________ SG0156* NAD 83(1994)- 47 26 52.25480(N) 088 06 08.19093(W) ADJUSTED SG0156* NAVD 88 - 406. (meters) 1332. (feet) SCALED SG0156 ___________________________________________________________________ SG0156 LAPLACE CORR- -4.67 (seconds) DEFLEC99 SG0156 GEOID HEIGHT- -34.92 (meters) GEOID99 SG0156 SG0156 HORZ ORDER - THIRD SG0156 SG0156.The horizontal coordinates were established by classical geodetic methods SG0156.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in February 1997. SG0156 SG0156.The orthometric height was scaled from a topographic map. SG0156 SG0156.The Laplace correction was computed from DEFLEC99 derived deflections. SG0156 SG0156.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99. SG0156 SG0156; North East Units Scale Converg. SG0156;SPC MI N - 296,747.456 7,916,862.016 MT 1.00010953 -0 47 48.2 SG0156;UTM 16 - 5,255,522.723 416,902.126 MT 0.99968486 -0 48 43.4 SG0156 SG0156: Primary Azimuth Mark Grid Az SG0156:SPC MI N - MOUNT BOHEMIA 2 MIGS 1934 133 50 00.1 SG0156:UTM 16 - MOUNT BOHEMIA 2 MIGS 1934 133 50 55.3 SG0156 SG0156|---------------------------------------------------------------------| SG0156| PID Reference Object Distance Geod. Az | SG0156| dddmmss.s | SG0156| SG0154 MOUNT BOHEMIA 2 MIGS 1934 APPROX. 9.2 KM 1330211.9 | SG0156|---------------------------------------------------------------------| SG0156 SG0156 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL SG0156 SG0156 NAD 83(1986)- 47 26 52.24326(N) 088 06 08.16352(W) AD( ) 3 SG0156 NAD 27 - 47 26 52.56000(N) 088 06 07.78000(W) AD( ) 3 SG0156 SG0156.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control. SG0156.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums. SG0156.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived. SG0156 SG0156_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TDT1690255523(NAD 83) SG0156_MARKER: DD = SURVEY DISK SG0156_SETTING: 66 = SET IN ROCK OUTCROP SG0156_STABILITY: B = PROBABLY HOLD POSITION/ELEVATION WELL SG0156_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS SUITABLE FOR SG0156+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - June 17, 2000 SG0156 SG0156 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By SG0156 HISTORY - 1934 MONUMENTED MIGS SG0156 HISTORY - 20000617 GOOD MIDT SG0156 SG0156 STATION DESCRIPTION SG0156 SG0156'DESCRIBED BY MICHIGAN GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 (CMC) SG0156'NEAR EAGLE HARBOR IN SEC. 3, T. 58 N., R. 30 W., ON A BALD SG0156'SECTION OF THE FIRST HIGH RIDGE BACK FROM THE SHORE OF LAKE SG0156'SUPERIOR, SOUTH AND EAST OF EAGLE HARBOR, ON THE SUMMIT SG0156'OF MOUNT LOOKOUT, 26.8 FEET NORTH OF THE NEAREST POINT ON SG0156'EDGE OF CLIFF, 44.2 FEET S. 58 DEG W. OF THE CENTER OF A SMALL SG0156'POT HOLE, 71 PACES S. 84 DEG W. OF PROTRUDING EDGE OF CREST SG0156'AND 19.6 FEET S. 87 DEG E. FROM A PROMINENT ANGLE ON THE SOUTH SG0156'EDGE OF CLIFF. SG0156' SG0156'TO REACH FROM EAGLE HARBOR, START FROM THE INTERSECTION OF SG0156'STATE HIGHWAYS 206 AND 26, AND DRIVE SOUTH FOR 0.3 MILE TO SG0156'THE ENTRANCE OF A WOODS-ROAD LEADING EAST, DRIVE EAST ON SG0156'THIS WOODS-ROAD 0.7 MILE TO A FORK, FOLLOW LEFT FORK BY CAR SG0156'OR BY FOOT, DEPENDING ON CONDITION OF A CREEK-CROSSING SG0156'JUST BEYOND THE FORK, FOR ABOUT 1-1/4 MILES TO A BLAZED SG0156'5-INCH POPLAR TREE ON LEFT, LEAVE THE ROAD AND WALK ABOUT N. SG0156'35 DEG E. TO A CLEARING AT CREST, THEN PROCEED EASTERLY, SG0156'FOLLOWING THE SOUTH EDGE OF THE CREST OF RIDGE. ABOUT 20 TO 25 SG0156'MINUTES AFTER LEAVING THE ROAD THE BALD SUMMIT OF MT. SG0156'LOOKOUT WILL BE SEEN TO THE EAST ACROSS A SMALL VALLEY. SG0156'IT WILL TAKE 20 TO 30 MINUTES MORE TO REACH IT. SG0156' SG0156'SURFACE AND REFERENCE MARKS ARE STANDARD U.S.C. AND G.S. SG0156'AND S.S. BRONZE DISKS SET IN CONCRETE IN OUTCROPPING BEDROCK. SG0156' SG0156'THE NAME OF THE STATION IS STAMPED ON THE REFERENCE MARK, SG0156'TOGETHER WITH THE WORDS REFERENCE MARK. NAME OF STATION SG0156'WAS NOT STAMPED ON STATION MARK. EACH DISK IS COVERED WITH SG0156'A SMALL PILE OF LARGE STONES. SG0156 SG0156 STATION RECOVERY (2000) SG0156 SG0156'RECOVERY NOTE BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2000 (ASK) SG0156'LOCATED IN SECTION 3, T58N-R30W ON SUMMIT OF FIRST HIGH RIDGE SG0156'SOUTHEAST OF EAGLE HARBOR. THIS IS A REMOTE STATION AND MAY REQUIRE A SG0156'4X4 FOR THE FIRST 3.3 MILES ALONG DIRT ROAD AND ATV TRAILS, THEN ATV SG0156'OR WALK FOR ADDITIONAL 0.6 MI TO STATION. LOCATED WITH GPS. *** retrieval complete. Elapsed Time = 00:00:02

I don't know how this site gets the NGS data but NGS publishs updates by CD ROM's once per year and they stagger the CD per region, it has been more than 1 CD divided up into varios regions, about 5 if I recall correctly. Batch updates used to be available but it was a chore to dowbload and update you data.

MONEL

NGS has/had plans to incorporate the USGS marks in the database. They said it was dependent on funding and manpower as it was a major task to key in all the data. Since a lot of USGS control in not on the same datum as the NGS database, it presents problems in the software side of it and may require programming etc. The USGS marks not in the NGS data base on on 1927 and 1929 datums. They are 3rd order marks, of lower quality than what NGS performs work to. Reason was that USGS was mapping and that did not require anything better than 3rd order accuracy. So, some time in the future (and who knows when) you may find a lot more marks in the database but untill them the exists in old paper manuscript form. In order to find a marker you have to page thru reams of paper etc.

A great deal of your questions may be answer here. Index of On-Line Publications Or maybe this will explain it all Say What?

Event the experts can be wrong. I took us about 1 hour to find this mark with the aide of hand held GPS Garmim eTrek Vista. None of the 1934 references beside the RR tack were found quote: 1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 15, 2003 QL0087 *********************************************************************** QL0087 DESIGNATION - R 56 QL0087 PID - QL0087 QL0087 STATE/COUNTY- MI/DELTA QL0087 USGS QUAD - ENSIGN (1985) QL0087 QL0087 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL QL0087 ___________________________________________________________________ QL0087* NAD 83(1986)- 45 53 54. (N) 086 51 14. (W) SCALED QL0087* NAVD 88 - 212.345 (meters) 696.67 (feet) ADJUSTED QL0087 ___________________________________________________________________ QL0087 GEOID HEIGHT- -35.65 (meters) GEOID99 QL0087 DYNAMIC HT - 212.346 (meters) 696.67 (feet) COMP QL0087 MODELED GRAV- 980,618.5 (mgal) NAVD 88 QL0087 QL0087 VERT ORDER - SECOND CLASS 0 QL0087 QL0087.The horizontal coordinates were scaled from a topographic map and have QL0087.an estimated accuracy of +/- 6 seconds. QL0087 QL0087.The orthometric height was determined by differential leveling QL0087.and adjusted by the National Geodetic Survey in June 1991. QL0087 QL0087.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99. QL0087 QL0087.The dynamic height is computed by dividing the NAVD 88 QL0087.geopotential number by the normal gravity value computed on the QL0087.Geodetic Reference System of 1980 (GRS 80) ellipsoid at 45 QL0087.degrees latitude (g = 980.6199 gals.). QL0087 QL0087.The modeled gravity was interpolated from observed gravity values. QL0087 QL0087; North East Units Estimated Accuracy QL0087;SPC MI N - 123,940. 8,011,340. MT (+/- 180 meters Scaled) QL0087 QL0087 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL QL0087 QL0087 NGVD 29 - 212.344 (m) 696.67 (f) ADJ UNCH 2 0 QL0087 QL0087.Superseded values are not recommended for survey control. QL0087.NGS no longer adjusts projects to the NAD 27 or NGVD 29 datums. QL0087.See file dsdata.txt to determine how the superseded data were derived. QL0087 QL0087_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TER113827(NAD 83) QL0087_MARKER: DB = BENCH MARK DISK QL0087_SETTING: 7 = SET IN TOP OF CONCRETE MONUMENT QL0087_STAMPING: R 56 1934 QL0087_STABILITY: C = MAY HOLD, BUT OF TYPE COMMONLY SUBJECT TO QL0087+STABILITY: SURFACE MOTION QL0087_SATELLITE: THE SITE LOCATION WAS REPORTED AS NOT SUITABLE FOR QL0087+SATELLITE: SATELLITE OBSERVATIONS - March 14, 2002 QL0087 QL0087 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By QL0087 HISTORY - 1934 MONUMENTED CGS QL0087 HISTORY - 1972 MARK NOT FOUND NGS QL0087 HISTORY - 20020314 GOOD MIDT QL0087 QL0087 STATION DESCRIPTION QL0087 QL0087'DESCRIBED BY COAST AND GEODETIC SURVEY 1934 QL0087'0.5 MI E FROM ENSIGN. QL0087'0.5 MILE EAST ALONG THE MINNEAPOLIS, ST. PAUL AND SAULT STE. QL0087'MARIE RAILWAY FROM ENSIGN, DELTA COUNTY, BETWEEN THE SIXTH AND QL0087'SEVENTH POLES EAST OF MILEPOST 355, 25 FEET SOUTH OF THE QL0087'CENTERLINE OF THE TRACK, AND 15 FEET NORTHEAST OF A 14-INCH QL0087'BIRCH TREE. A STANDARD DISK, STAMPED R 56 1934 AND SET IN THE QL0087'TOP OF A CONCRETE POST PROJECTING ABOUT 4 INCHES ABOVE GROUND. QL0087 QL0087 STATION RECOVERY (1972) QL0087 QL0087'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1972 QL0087'MARK NOT FOUND. QL0087 QL0087 STATION RECOVERY (2002) QL0087 QL0087'RECOVERY NOTE BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 2002 (MPR) QL0087'ENSIGN, 0.68 MILE EAST OF 'Y' RD (NORTH), 0.18 MILE WEST OF 'Z' RD QL0087'(NFS2235), ABOUT 260 FT NORTH OF THE C/L US-2, 63 FT N32E OF POWER QL0087'LINE POLE NO.143, 58 FT NORTH OF POWER LINE, 26 FT SOUTH OF SOUTH QL0087'RAIL, 5.5 FT WEST OF 15-INCH BALSAM, 2 FT SOUTH OF WITNESS POST, 2 FT QL0087'BELOW RR GRADE AND PROJECTING 7-INCHES ABOVE GROUND.

If is a Vertical control mark only then once its disturbed like you describe, it can no longer be reset and its of little use anymore except to alert possible users of its demise. That does not mean you can remove it unless you are an authorized NGS contributor, e.g. State Gov't agency etc. I would just report what you found and move on. Do not remove it, someone could get the impression that you are the person responsilbe for the current condition. CORS stands for Continoiusly Operated Reference Station. A permanent GPS receiver setup to run 24/7 and to download the data to computer. MDOT CORS NGS CORS SITE

Here is one we reset a few years back. We set the disk, did the level work, checked and rechecked it. Set it to the NGS state advisor along with all the field notes and he took care of publishing it. Took about 1 month. He told us many times that he gets a lot of resets from others who do not do the work properly or use sub-standard equipment. quote: The NGS Data SheetSee file dsdata.txt for more information about the datasheet.DATABASE = Sybase ,PROGRAM = datasheet, VERSION = 6.73 1 National Geodetic Survey, Retrieval Date = MARCH 14, 2003 AE9966 *********************************************************************** AE9966 DESIGNATION - E 329 RESET AE9966 PID - AE9966 AE9966 STATE/COUNTY- MI/MARQUETTE AE9966 USGS QUAD - NEGAUNEE (1975) AE9966 AE9966 *CURRENT SURVEY CONTROL AE9966 ___________________________________________________________________ AE9966* NAD 83(1986)- 46 30 43. (N) 087 36 06. (W) SCALED AE9966* NAVD 88 - 429.88 (meters) 1410.4 (feet) RESET AE9966 ___________________________________________________________________ AE9966 GEOID HEIGHT- -33.94 (meters) GEOID99 AE9966 AE9966 VERT ORDER - THIRD AE9966 AE9966.The horizontal coordinates were scaled from a topographic map and have AE9966.an estimated accuracy of +/- 6 seconds. AE9966 AE9966.The orthometric height was computed from unverified reset data. AE9966 AE9966.The geoid height was determined by GEOID99. AE9966 AE9966; North East Units Estimated Accuracy AE9966;SPC MI N - 192,300. 7,953,830. MT (+/- 180 meters Scaled) AE9966 AE9966 SUPERSEDED SURVEY CONTROL AE9966 AE9966.No superseded survey control is available for this station. AE9966 AE9966_U.S. NATIONAL GRID SPATIAL ADDRESS: 16TDS538511(NAD 83) AE9966_MARKER: DV = VERTICAL CONTROL DISK AE9966_SETTING: 66 = SET IN ROCK OUTCROP AE9966_STAMPING: E 329 RESET 1998 AE9966_MARK LOGO: NGS AE9966_MAGNETIC: N = NO MAGNETIC MATERIAL AE9966_STABILITY: A = MOST RELIABLE AND EXPECTED TO HOLD AE9966+STABILITY: POSITION/ELEVATION WELL AE9966 AE9966 HISTORY - Date Condition Report By AE9966 HISTORY - 1998 MONUMENTED MIDT AE9966 HISTORY - 20011011 GOOD USPSQD AE9966 AE9966 STATION DESCRIPTION AE9966 AE9966'DESCRIBED BY MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION 1998 (SHN) AE9966'STATION IS LOCATED AT NEGAUNEE, ALONG US HIGHWAY 41 AND STATE HIGHWAY AE9966'M-28, IN THE SOUTHWEST SIDE OF A LARGE PROMINENT ROCK OUTCROP AE9966'SOUTHEAST OF THE HIGHWAY. IT IS ABOUT 0.17 KM (0.10 MI) SOUTHWEST OF AE9966'THE JUNCTION WITH COUNTY ROAD 492 (MAAS ST) AND A TRAFFIC SIGNAL, 16.3 AE9966'M (53.5 FT) NORTHEAST OF THE CENTERLINE OF THE NORTHEAST DRIVE AE9966'ENTRANCE TO THE FERRELL GAS OFFICE/STORE AND BULK PLANT, 10.6 M (34.8 AE9966'FT) SOUTHEAST OF THE BACK OF CURB, 5.2 M (17.1 FT) NORTH OF A POWER AE9966'POLE, 1.4 M (4.6 FT) SOUTHEAST OF A CALCITE VEIN AT THE NORTHWEST AE9966'CORNER OF THE ROCK OUTCROP, 0.55 M (1.80 FT) NORTHEAST OF A CARSONITE AE9966'WITNESS POST, AND 0.3 M (1.0 FT) EAST OF THE NORTHWEST CORNER OF THE AE9966'LOWEST LEDGE ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE. A STANDARD VERTICAL CONTROL DISK AE9966'SET IN A DRILL HOLE ABOUT 1.1 M (3.6 FT) ABOVE LEVEL WITH THE HIGHWAY. AE9966'DESCRIBED BY MIKE RAFFAELLI, SURVEY TECH - MIDT. AE9966 AE9966 STATION RECOVERY (2001) AE9966 AE9966'RECOVERY NOTE BY US POWER SQUADRON 2001 (BAA) AE9966'RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION. *** retrieval complete. Elapsed Time = 00:00:00

I could get away with it because I had a gov't vehicle. I also have used those paint marking felt tip pens sold at Officemax.

There are specified procedures for resetting a BM. I have done it many times. NGS requires the following information before they will publish it. They have form to fill out. [This message was edited by elcamino on March 13, 2003 at 05:20 AM.]