kennychange(kc+)

I got to admit, I am really surprised by the responses on this - but I suppose I shouldn't be. Thanks for weighing in and giving me a snapshot of who's out there. I guess I am going to have to keep playing with less information on my lonesome.

I agree with this, in fact I think that process is always going to be dynamic - I think in the event that ratings are being used (and they are) then it's only responsible to manage this on some level - I have adjusted caches up and I anticipate adjusting some down over time. They are guides and merely that, I recognize that.

I don't at all concur with the sentiment that something without a rating insinuates it's not to be found - the game is exactly the friction point between being found and obscuring it. Furthermore, the conversation we should be having about uber sensitive ecologies goes much farther - should we be hiding anything at all then? What of the responsibility of the cachers to cache responsibly, place responsibly and encourage such behaviour? The cache is as much the problem in the first place with that argument. Shall we just put them on the sign posts in parking lots where there is zero chance of impact or poor judgement?

I"m not for a moment suggesting that people can't just go without the information - I do it all the time, as stated, perhaps I am nutjob but I have specifically purchased older units just to enjoy the difficulty it adds - Much as Josh has pointed out though, people could also just opt out of something without a rating - just as they do with a mystery cache or any other. I did really like the point about multi's though - that is definitely one expression of a way to engage with the uncertainty.

+ 1 Sivota Joshiam - isn't that exactly making my point? There is an expectation that's anticipatable. Lone.R - gradings sure seem subjective to me, but beyond that, any hide gets easier as it gets found if for no other reason than seeing traffic on it, unless it hasn't been found in forever

My reasoning goes something like this, - ratings are subjective at the best of times, and they change over time. The first time something is found and down the road, due to wear and tear or poorly re-hidden or even over hidden caches naturally change ratings and they can fluctuate quite wildly. We have all found 2's that kick our butts and 4's that were easy - so, does it really matter? - in the less is more idea, much like a puzzle cache which information is constrained or obscured to up the level of game play for those so compelled, it's just another way to create challenge - some people like the adventure of not knowing what they are going to find - prevents people from chasing ratings and going in the spirit of pure adventure I can see a direct need for the terrain rating for safety matters, the difficulty rating is not impactful in the same way. Perhaps to not waste time with something too hard, or even too easy, if you have new folk with you or kids - but it's an option, not mandatory. I came across a great local cache that contained a GPS unit from 1997 preloaded with a second coordinate - the challenge and difficulty of using this unit WAS the challenge it not only was it one of the most fulfilling experiences I have had - it was one of the most educational. It totally changed the game for me. I am certain I am not alone in that checking logs or hints is something I save for once I am stumped and even then, I take as little information as I need, in fact, truth is, I rarely read descriptions anymore because I want the pure finding experience. I want as little information as possible for as long as I can go without it. That said, I too benefit from the information I can procure from all of the above and at times need it - but I have also found caches that were way off the mark, rarely found and had few logs, or in some other way without the benefit of the additional information and again, I found those experiences some of the most instructive. The one comment that I do find most compelling against the idea is the potential damage to ground zero, it does seem that people will rip an area apart, but then again, I have seen that on rated stuff too. The fact of the matter is, that the rating does infer some information affecting the find and I am interested to see ultimately if there are others like me who want to chase those challenges. It's over drawn to suggest its like climbing unconquered peaks, but, maybe not so far in a symbolic sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I know it seems wonky at first, but anyone else out there that likes minimal information on a cache? Less is more kinda folk?

Hi, forgive if I am blundering idiot, not super comfortable with computers or even basic programming level knowledge, just an avid cacher trying to learn how to better use this technology - and particularly with trying to add a layer to a google map of the traditional caches from a pocket query in hopes that I could quickly see where there might be some in relation to sites we planned to see and further master some of the opportunities of modern mapping software... so hear goes, I attempted the instructions as gone through in this thread thus far, and when I drag and drop the gpx file, to a newly created map (I no longer see create classic map, is this gone or am I blind?) - the import window comes up with an error noting it's not in the specified formats - So I am coming to the conclusion that I either am missing the "create classic map" or this indeed has changed - Any insight is super welcome and I am headed on my first international trip as a cacher so would love the chance to figure out how google maps might be a more useful tool than finding a singular address. I digress....

Interesting, thanks for the responses. I am finding that I like less and less information all the time. I am even thinking of buying an old manual entry gps in part to up the ante / difficulty and force myself to get even better acquainted with the workings of a gps - as well as sharpen my skills in flat out searching the GZ. I love the fact that you can't seem to think about much else when doing so, it's part of my escape from the day to day. Removing crap / replacing log book bags / sharpening pencils and wiping the cache dry (if damp) are all becoming main stay actions. Our crew rolls a bit like cache medics and are interested in helping keep the experience as high value for others as possible, especially the kids being a new Dad myself.

The crew I cache with, and everyone whom I attempt to geo-convert, I try to impart what I think is good form. We subscribe to using the least information possible and only procuring things like size, sometimes even description, certainly logs and hints only finally as we can't find something. We believe that you should let different folks in the group find it independently so everyone has a chance. We simpy step to the side and chat while the others get a chance to find it. We call Ooopala if we have seen it but don't want to let the other's fun be spoiled, and as a sort of counting coup, meaning having and advantage of good style of the other non finders. We believe that you should sharpen pencils and remove trash / wrappers / crap from caches. That everything should be child friendly and not overtly commercial. Just curious to hear other people's ethos, the stranger.. the better. Fire away.

Thanks for the replies, I should have searched further before posting as there is a lot of posts addressing the issues. Pocket Queries does seem to help though. The transition from iphone to handheld is not a simple one as I am finding out...

Hi Folks, I recently purchased a Magellan Explorist to try using an alternative device for our much beloved past time. I am a Mac user and downloaded the appropriate communicator / updates, but it seems that "send to gps" has mixed results. It never seems to be able to load more than one cache and I had to repeatedly disconnect and reconnect in effort to load the 7 in one zone I was looking to find last night. Furthermore, I am wondering if anyone has found any easy way to load a large number in a preselected area - rather than have to go one by one through the caches in my city. Any help is appreciated - it was a wee bit frustrating! Love the unit so far otherwise. Works much better with gloves on than my iphone. -40 c last night!

Thanks for the replies folks, Yeah, I gather you can just leave them open as yet to be found, but like some of you, the OCD part of me wants to bag them mofos! Just being able to flip a color assignment to DNF(RED), Targets you want to highlight say on a mission of going out (PINK or whatever), almost like a playlist... I love clearing out small patches at once or trying to remember stuff I need to come back at in the day or after snow... DNFs to me are just caches I haven't found, just like any I've never looked for. When I need to clean up my map, the DNFs don't stand out to me as different than anything else I still need to find. I admit that a few thousand finds ago, I thought DNFs were special, too, but after a few more finds, they don't stand out to me anymore. Beside, I typically know which ones I've failed at before: I don't need a special icon to rub it in every time I look at the map.

I have been using my iphone gps for some months now, but had originally bought a Garmin Legend cx in hopes that using it geocaching would finally get me using and comfortable with a gps for backcountry use. I have about 100 finds under my belt and LOVE how user friendly the app is, but that hasn't helped my initial goal of using an old school GPS. Here's my questions: 1) I have been able to upload the waypoints for some close by caches, but obviously you don't get things like the descriptions / hint / logs - what do you folks do when using a conventional handheld? Do print and copy these things? Go without? 2) Do you work with / without a printed map when finding caches? I can see some interesting learning possible by using a topo style map with less info on the handheld to make for some harder fun and possibly benefit back country adventure travel understanding Hope y'all can help!

Hi, Forgive if this has been covered but I haven't found anything - am I alone in thinking it would be great to have a DNF button that would start to mark those caches with another color so you could come back to them more easily or plan a route of them to clean up your map some? Love to hear your thoughts - or if I am missing something.