palser

Please alllow me to reply here as a research scientist and as a former electrical and materials engineer. Your choice of container is excellent, for the following reasons: they are food containers, and thus will retain some food smells even after you empty and clean the container. This yummy smell will invite procupines, raccoons, possums and bears who will be willing to act as full-time guardians of your cache to guard it from muggles, priates, thieves and marauding space aliens. using my super-powerful scientific vision, I am able to see that although the containers you have pictured are indeed made of rolled cardboard, the cardboard container has been rendered entirely waterproof and watertight and also entirely resistant to microbial decay for at least 50 years by the special advanced compounds to be found in the bright red, orange and brown label material. The same treatment gives the cylindrical walls and the ends of the container the strength of a four inch thickness of a specialized SAE grade titanium vanadium stainless steel, and renders the container entirely watertight and waterproof at submersion to depths of 4,000 feet for over 400 years. Thus this container will be more durable and hardy than an ammo box. Although there have indeed been reports in the past that the plastic lids on containers of this type often do not seal well nor remain in place securely, using my special scientific knowledge and my special mechanical engineering software to analyze the pictures you have provided of these containers, I am able to determine with over 99.999982% accuracy that the lids on these containers are made of tri-layer bonded teflon and Kevlar fabric, with an outer layer of Gore-tex impregnated with titanium iridium shielding, and thus the lids on these containers which you propose will provide perfect service and an entirely watertight and reliable and robust seal for over eighty years. You have chosen your container type amazingly well for your environment, and you should be proud of yourself! I wish you the very best of caching experiences with your most excellent cache placements! Vinny & Sue, As a fellow research specialist & lobotomy test subject (Dr. P), I see you failed to see the absence of kryptonite. This too would add to the attractiveness of this type of container by allowing our caching buddy Superman to participate in Stoned Cacher's hides. I hope you are not offended by this additional observation and thanx for letting me jump in here. Gotta Go, Dr. P

There is one thing I don't believe was covered. The guidelines says "near or under". What would people consider "near"? A mile? half mile? 15 feet? Good point and hard question. As some have helpfully pointed out - I own at least two that are within 100 feet or so of highway bridges. Mine are off the driving ends of the bridges and have some available parking but some might consider them a bit close. I don't. I think somebody earlier mentioned that it would depend on what was under it. A fishing/river access spot might be ok to have something 50 - 60 feet away or on dirt under it but if it was a railroad - that is a whole other ball game. I'd have to say that if it isn't physically attached to the bridge or a support (off limits) than it should have some distance - maybe something like 50 feet. Question is, "could a muggle reasonably infer that if it is bomb (BIG if) it poses a threat to the structure. Then again the general rule of thumb for railroads is 150 feet - so maybe highway bridges need to be the same - and then it is time to move my caches. Never seen it addressed so directly before. Now we're back to the 'exceptions' statement....kinda throws the 'one rule' for all highway/bridge hides out the window Not really - I make clear distinction between ON the bridge versus "Nearby". I never mentioned any exceptions above. I REALLY am looking for a hard and fast rule here to avoid confusion. As stated - if I need to move mine - I gladly will. Lord knows it isn't the first time I have accidently run afowl of the guidelines - I took care of it then and will do so again. Yes really! We are heading down the road of 'exceptions' by saying when is it appropriate to allow a cache on/close to a bridge. Case in point, if a cache is placed on a bridge your point is 'no'! But if it place a cache on/around a reflector at the bridge entrance at less than 6" away, it's OK. Huh on that one. Oh for god's sake - that cache is out on a rural road bridge reflector just 5 feet off the structure that is paved on one side and dirt on the other - labeled a county road and sees maybe 150 cars a day 50 of which are making the return trip home. I am not talking ALL bridges here but just Highway Bridges. It is not a highway or even anything remotely nearing the definition of highway. If it causes you that much grief then I will go remove it today. Geez - side issue. If you want to accuse me of being a hypocrite - just say it. Picture of that cache for comparison will be posted later today. Judge for yourself. I have only commented on Highway Bridges throughout. And I could easily live with a 150 foot rule for all HIGHWAY bridges. as stated. I do want to see a hard and fast rule here or toss it altogether because I believe the interpretations of such vast difference give the whole game a black eye. Please don't remove any of your caches for my sake (I'm not worth the trouble/time).. AND I have finds on some, AND I have enjoyed them all. As to your 150' rule/guideline(my choice of word). Good idea and I like it. Maybe we are starting to get some clarification. And your original pic would indicate this to be a cache in violation of those rules/guidelines. No problem with that. And with that 150' rule/guideline in mind, consider the caches we all have placed in/on/around bridges/highways, and ask yourself how many would you/I have to archive? I have a couple of hides myself that I would have to consider!!! Done on this one!

There is one thing I don't believe was covered. The guidelines says "near or under". What would people consider "near"? A mile? half mile? 15 feet? Good point and hard question. As some have helpfully pointed out - I own at least two that are within 100 feet or so of highway bridges. Mine are off the driving ends of the bridges and have some available parking but some might consider them a bit close. I don't. I think somebody earlier mentioned that it would depend on what was under it. A fishing/river access spot might be ok to have something 50 - 60 feet away or on dirt under it but if it was a railroad - that is a whole other ball game. I'd have to say that if it isn't physically attached to the bridge or a support (off limits) than it should have some distance - maybe something like 50 feet. Question is, "could a muggle reasonably infer that if it is bomb (BIG if) it poses a threat to the structure. Then again the general rule of thumb for railroads is 150 feet - so maybe highway bridges need to be the same - and then it is time to move my caches. Never seen it addressed so directly before. Now we're back to the 'exceptions' statement....kinda throws the 'one rule' for all highway/bridge hides out the window Not really - I make clear distinction between ON the bridge versus "Nearby". I never mentioned any exceptions above. I REALLY am looking for a hard and fast rule here to avoid confusion. As stated - if I need to move mine - I gladly will. Lord knows it isn't the first time I have accidently run afowl of the guidelines - I took care of it then and will do so again. Yes really! We are heading down the road of 'exceptions' by saying when is it appropriate to allow a cache on/close to a bridge. Case in point, if a cache is placed on a bridge your point is 'no'! But if you place a cache on/around a reflector at the bridge entrance at less than 6" away, it's OK. Huh on that one.

There is one thing I don't believe was covered. The guidelines says "near or under". What would people consider "near"? A mile? half mile? 15 feet? Good point and hard question. As some have helpfully pointed out - I own at least two that are within 100 feet or so of highway bridges. Mine are off the driving ends of the bridges and have some available parking but some might consider them a bit close. I don't. I think somebody earlier mentioned that it would depend on what was under it. A fishing/river access spot might be ok to have something 50 - 60 feet away or on dirt under it but if it was a railroad - that is a whole other ball game. I'd have to say that if it isn't physically attached to the bridge or a support (off limits) than it should have some distance - maybe something like 50 feet. Question is, "could a muggle reasonably infer that if it is bomb (BIG if) it poses a threat to the structure. Then again the general rule of thumb for railroads is 150 feet - so maybe highway bridges need to be the same - and then it is time to move my caches. Never seen it addressed so directly before. Now we're back to the 'exceptions' statement....kinda throws the 'one rule' for all highway/bridge hides out the window

I get what you are saying. In fact, I've made the same point in various threads over the years. However, it would be nice if TPTB could help us flesh out when those exceptions might be appropriate. I believe they have tried to with this approach, 'Before a cache is listed a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and appropriateness before posting the cache to the site.' But with the numerous reviewers=many differant interpretations. Dr. P

Sure, its possible that an exception has been made for a specific cache. However, the possibility that an exception was made shouldn't stop anyone from discussing the issue. I guess it's the exceptions things that I a little bewildered about.. While the OP obviously wants a very distinct ruling about bridges/highway issue, he himself would probably admit that in his own hometown of less the 3000 a 'terroristic attacks' (qoute from the guidelines) is hardly likely. So the 'exception' interpretation would likely give the ability of cache placement on a highway/bridge a 'go'! in his own hometown. While in his picture example, this cache is in a community of approx. 25000+, it could be said terrorist threat probably goes up w/population but still it is pretty low. So it's possible the 'exception' ruling still says this cache is a 'go.' And back to the NJ comment about blowing up both sides of the bridge, LOL!!! we can look back to last weeks event in Boston to show our paranoia in our post 9/11 culture. (This example is not the issue here, just an example.) But we should consider the spirit and intent of what the TPTB had in mind overall, i.e. 'exceptions'. To give the reviewer/cache hider some leeway in these particular circumstances. By the very nature of that exception they are not saying a 'flat no' or that there is a single rule for all places, for all times, for all types, etc. etc, etc, that can be applied for all cases. They are saying that good judgement and a little wisdom is needed and that just as their heading at the top of there page states, these are 'guildlines'. And I guess it seems that some of my confusion starts is with the fact that we/some are trying to make them hard and fast 'rules', where this was not the intent of the TPTB. Or else there opening statement would leave out the word guidelines and replace it with 'rules'. To wit: "These are listing guidelines only. Before a cache is listed a volunteer will review the page for inaccuracies, bad coordinates, and appropriateness before posting the cache to the site. The physical cache site is not verified. As the cache owner, you are responsible for the placement and care of your cache." and There may be some exceptions. Dr. P

You have summed up exactly why I don't watch the news. Now wait a minute here, are you insinuating that the news has some agenda other than the news???? I thought they where always honest and correct..... Where's that 'no spin zone' guy when we need him most?

I agree MM re:vague, attitudes, perspective, interpretations, guidlines, laws, regulations, cooler heads, etc, etc,.... But I believe that the OP is most likely is looking for guidelines that work equally well in all parts of Nebraska, Nevada, and New Hampshire. Again a meritable trait but hardly attainable. It just doesn't always work in the real world. Maybe that's where the 'cooler heads/wisdom' can be relied on. And I agree with the OP that it is up to us to keep within the guidelines to give credibility and validity to our sport/hobby. If anyone's blood pressure got in the upper reaches of the stratosphere because of my comments.. Sorry about that. Promise I won't do it again until the next time!!! And a big LOL on blowing up both sides of the bridge.. Dr. P PS.. is there a badge available?

The OP, while in his desire to keep caches within written guidelines is a meritable trait, and his opening post indicated a hypothetical placement, it later became very specific with his attached photo of cache placement. And by the posted pic is shows a clear violation of posted guidelines. I being familiar with the cache(s), both the OP's & LEO's, am now listed as one of the 'locals' who have seemed to have stirred up a little ire of the OP! But I refuse to think that there is not an agenda at work here. Although the case is irrefutable with the proof the picture provides of LEO's cache, an equally revealing picture could be made available of the OP's cache, across two lanes of paved highway and of course with the revealing arrow showing cache placement clearly on the bridge. This could be a case where 'what's good for the gander is good for the goose' probably does not apply. I do believe that a standardization of the guildlines to be able to guide us in our placement of hides is a worthy cause, but with the many reviewers and many intrepretations available, this may be beyond the notion that we can keep everybody happy! Dr. P

I'm a little confused by this thread. The OP himself has a cache placed on a bridge just 20 miles to the east, and at least 2 others along highways that are closer to the highway of the one he is discussing (the one placed by LEO). Yet I don't see the OP's rush to archive his own. The OP's comment "That is just my point I guess - seems to me that if it is placed physically on the bridge and it is clearly and definitly a highway then it should be a slam dunk - flat out "no". this would certainly apply to his cache(s). Even though his cache is more rural than LEO's cache, the 'flat out no' clause would indicate that it be archived, with his conditions of 'on a bridge/on a highway being met. Knowing both the LEO and the OP, it puzzles me to know why there is such eagerness to archive this cache (there is a report that a request has been made). It is not a hazzard, somewhat difficult to access, and being mostly rural we don't suffer much from the 9/11 terror/fears (and maybe we should). But I know that there has arisen many 'cache cops' that have appointed themselves to police the smallest of infractions about placement, type, 'no newbies can place caches', container shape/size, no micros, and the list goes on. Just look at some of the longest threads that seem to go on forever and wind up going no where, they usually are just a representation of some form of 'angst' that they can't resolve. You know if this hobby causes that much of a problem for some, maybe it's time to revive that old stamp collection they had in the 5th grade and move our efforts to the GPS 'Garage Sale' forum. Dr. P

Who was that great wise philosopher that once said, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling!" Still waiting on that one.

I'm using a Dell Axim X3 and use GPS Sonar. I can download my pocket queries straight to my PPC from Windows Explorer. Works great. It show the page(s) just as you see it on geocaching.com

Congrats Starbrand, From one of the locals in the same geocache area, we have many times gleaned some of his wisdom on the sport. He has held Saturday coffee/donuts meetings to discuss the many aspects of geocaching (to help us newbies). Plus held the ’80 in 48’ event here in the Scottsbluff area. Not to give him the big head about it, but he is truly one that cares very much about the sport. I had the opportunity to be FTF on his 100th hide. And on his FTF/500th, it was a hide of mine. Kinda neat! Congrats Again Starbrand Dr. P

I own an etrex Legend CX, essentially the same unit as the Venture CX, and installing the new firmware solves any inaccuracy problems with my unit. As a matter of fact, I can usually get about 8ft. accuracy most of the time. 12ft accuracy under tree cover (since the unit doesn't use a quad-helix antenna). The blue legend is surely inferior to the Venture CX is one other BIG way though. You will not be able to use a MicroSD card to load Mapsource maps onto it. A good buy would be the Venture CX coupled with Mapsource Topo US and City Navigator v8 (if you plan to use it for road navigation). Just to add to the mix, I have a Vista CX and as the gentleman said, 'essentially the same unit as the Venture CX'. Just a few more whistles and bells. With the updated firmware, my unit is generally in the 8-12' accuracy range also. I believe you would really appreciate the color screen also. It has great resolution and can be seen in even the brightest of ambient conditions. Plus the added feature of more memory would make this a good choice in my book. My $0.02 worth, Dr. P

I believe 'The Leperchauns' have hit the nail on the head! Just lately 'Starbrand' coordinated an event here in the Panhandle of Nebraska. 'First to 80 Finds' in a 48 hour time frame. The first place team found I believe 83 in a little over 14 hrs. This is how they did it: (It follows very close to the above guide) 1) PLANNING- they spent more time in planning than the actual search. (details to follow) Used Google Earth to print out 36 pages of caches in our area. Taped and laminated together to make a 4'x6' map and plotted route. 2) Routing- used an Excell spreadsheat and charted most efficient route to follow from several starting points. Results were minimally different. Driver/Navigator was originally from Scottsbluff, Ne. and was chosen because he knew the roads/streets/shortcuts around town. Did not rely on any GPS to direct to cache except in the last 1/4 mile. 3) Teamwork- 2 w/GPSr- 1 driver/navigator- 1 logbooks- 1 grunt/climber = 5 total. Stayed the same for the whole duration of finds. 4) Discipline- Stayed the course, a change in plans was not even considered. Also see #3 5) Efficient Finds-Stayed away from multis/puzzle. Also thru Google Earth looked at each cache to see how far cache could be from parking. Kept those distances to a minimum. Terrain was also a consideration. 6) Keep moving!- No naps, no stops (other than restrooms, but you know boys will be boys when it come to that!) Had two coolers of food/drink in back of cachemobile. The 'Starbucks' exception noted! 7) Nght Caching- this competition started at 12:00M, so night caching was essential. Lots of good flashlights/head lights, etc. And I'll add #8, good cachemobile- theirs was a F250 diesel 4x4,etc.-4doors. Lots of room, plenty of everything for a cache run. The team consisted of 'Seeking Hearts', 'Good Lookin', 'the Roys', 'Shelter1', and 'Chennetts. All from Hastings Ne. Their effort surprised a lot of us since we live in a mostly rural community and caches can be somewhat far apart. I'm sure that the 80/14hrs. is by no means a record. But still a feat considering our area and some of the hides they had to find. (They had 3 DNF's.) Dr. P

Purchased Vista Cx Oct 11th, sent in rebate form. Recv'd rebate check Nov 13th. Maybe I was just lucky. ???

Really a very subjective ??? "Who's the best hider?" 1) some my own caches I thought would be very good (i.e. 'tough' finds) were overun w/cachers to be FTF/ 2) some my own caches I have made purposely simple/pleasant finds just for the drive/exposure. This would make a determination by some as lame. 3) some my own caches are multi's with just a few wanting to participate. (you find most caches/finds are by those who either don't have extended times or patience to go thru a process. And that's OK. 4) some of the puzzle caches are not even attempted by the majority, but who is to say they are not good hides/ 5) some live for/by micros. Some just believe they cause angst. 6) Even geocaching.com is well aware of peoples preferances in their form for pocket queries, size, difficulty, terrain, etc. And the list WILL go on. So to try and answer who is the best hider, there would have to be a common agreement on what constitutes the best hide. And with the thousands of cachers out there, there are that many opinions on both sides of what is a good/bad cache. So while not a pointless ??? But in reality there is no real answer! Dr. P PS.. if your an adrenalin junkie and don't mind climbing a tree or two, try tenacityj in our area.

As is always the case, there are a dozen differant ways to look at a situation. And there are those that always seem to take a negative stance in their observations. And conversly there are those on the other end that are alway generous (and hopefully honest) in the comments. We recently had someone come blowing into town and picked up 15-20 finds, and had nothing good to say about any of them (must have been constipated or something). Most of us just wrote it off and are glad he's gone. Personally I like it when something nice is said about my hides, but I don't get upset when it goes the other way. Like they always say, "IT'S JUST A GAME!"

LaRobley, As far as trying to help the poor fella with searching ebay?? You gotta remember, 'no good deed goes unpunished.' Good Luck!

Same here (being busy). Been a real pain in the ----! Went on here, 69361, for about 36 hrs. off and on. The forum did not seem to be affected though.

I certainly hope not! I purchased the GPS two days ago. I purchased it ~without~ pictures. Just emailed, then phoned him about the condition and particulars of the unit. I thought the deal was pretty good so I payed for it. Shipped out Thursday and should arrive here in Indiana from Ohio tomorrow. Now I will be the first to advise caution in these matters but when a really good deal comes along you sometimes cannot afford to rest too long. The fella wanted to sell the thing and I guess he just waited until he saw the green, and didnt care much if it got a "good home". I also note that he is a student and is very busy. I had to call several times before I got to speak with him. I am certain that he just has not had time to post the SOLD sign. Hope this calms the tide a little... I will advise as to my satisfaction with this transaction but so far I am pleased... Michael I hope your right and of course satisfied when it's all through. But check this one out; http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=146285

I guess I am in the same boat. You would think the guy would be courteous enough to let those interested know the status of his transaction. Maybe it's good the deal didn't proceed any farther than it did. For all of us!!!

I am interested, if I am not too late. Obiviously, condition (scratches, dings, etc.) is important. If you could forward any pics? Anyway, let me know. We could work out payment thru PayPal/Money Order today. Thanx- Ray

MY $0.02! Vista CX- I have been very disappointed with the performance/accuracy. Always reading 35'-45' off. Mostly to the east. Upgraded to 2.60 and called customer service. They checked over my settings, had me do a soft resest. (hold in the upper left zoom button, then power the unit on. Let set in the open for 30 min.) After 7 finds and all of them within 5', I am a happy camper once again. Would recommend this unit to anyone if it continues the way it has over the last 7 finds. Dr. P