jimburns

Check out Geo Convert for a tool to explore these distances, play with adjustments, convert from all formats, inc. UTM in one go, and more.... feedback appreciated, thanks.

If you're interested in a closer inspection of these differences and playing easily with the differences between points at different latitudes, a more indepth, free tool can be found here: Geo Convert Regards,

Speaking only from a U.S.A perspective, On May 29th 1765, Patrick Henry, newly elected to the Virginia House of Burgesses delivered his speech to the house that would make him famous. Seven resolutions condemning the Stamp Act. In the end, Virginia didn't protest the Stamp, Virginia rejected it outright, in effect declaring it illegal in the colony. The rest is history. I just thought that note would be fun to add. But there is a subtle point here, one that those in the "for the better of the geocaching community" camp would do well to consider. Why is all the emphasis placed on the courtesy and malleability of the geocaching community rather than on OUR governmental authorities? GC.com may be able to trademark the name, their logo and institute a host of other considered protections but the IDEA of using a GPS and hiding and finding "treasure boxes" isn't owned or controlled by anyone. In the very face of freedom itself, you should be expecting the government agencies to DEAL with this "change in society." Maybe it's the Park Rangers that better get it through their skulls that we the people are going to do this, period. On it's face, that's how we got bicycle paths you know, and not everyone that rides on them is a member of the USA Bicycle Riders Association (hypothetical) they're free for everyone to use. Now don't misunderstand, I'm not suggesting GC.com or anyone in the community that WANTS to consider the "good of the geocaching community" should simply put that want aside. By all means, work for the good. But work for the good and accept our freedoms and know just where the boundaries are between what YOU think the geocaching community is what anyone else might think. Work to make a distinction between your view of the "good" GC.com community and any other. Just as Girl Scouts might work to promote their vision of a good and productive girls club over some other alternative. But above it all, let freedom ring. You can and should work to futher your communities guidelines and ideas. But between the three, don't choose your way and the Ranger's way and loath the third option, promote your way and the third option and work to make the Ranger see they're just going to have to bend to the will of the people! Such a small box.... did that make sense? /j/pearland/tx

Having had diffculty myself with this issue when the explanation wasn't specific enough, lead to the creation of a tool to help. If you'd have said, "add 59 to the latitude," how would that be interpreted? That's quite a jump actually. I found myself trying different options .59, .059, etc. and comparing the distances. Depending on the number, you can arrive at a number of apparently valid adjustments. So I went on to create this multi-tool that additionally does a lot more including playing these different options automatically and taking the small circle at the given latitude into consideration, <Geo Convert> Above all, like the advice given indicated, English is a rich language, you don't HAVE to be vague, be precise. Of course, feedback and ideas are welcome. /j

And that's why the preview feature is valuable. Sure the Legend does not have a built in compass? I'm curious, I don't remember it being a distinction to the Vista which does. /jim/pearland/tx

quote:Originally posted by Kerry:However one should look at NAD83 and WGS84 as being independent of each other as they are basically based on different points (mainly), different observation data etc. This different base coordinate information then gives rise to any difference in physical coordinates much more so than any differences in ellipsoids. And... So? Not sure how you're suggesting this is meaningful for geocaching but when talking about the GPS system the ellipsoid, which we commonly refer to by datum, is the most meaningful piece to the puzzle. Yes, the datums may involve different sets of terrestrial points but as we're not out there surveying ourselves the difference in physical points is irrelevant. The GPS system maps right to the ellipsoid it's based upon, not to a database of known points. The known points that make up the datum don't play a part in a GPSr determining a position or in converting from one set of points to the other. They are merely that, a set of base reference points. Moreover the GPS system is causing a refinement of the base points so that they MORE CLOSELY fit the underlying ellipsoid. Still, not sure of your point, my point was only that NAD83 and WGS84 are certainly much closer than NAD27. When moving from GPS data to older NAD27 based maps I can see this difference being enough to warrant good translation. Regards, /jim/pearland/tx -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX

quote:Originally posted by ghengis:all of the utm coordinates are given in wgs84 format but all of my topo maps are un the nad27 format. will the conversion in jeeep. be correct, to use with my nad27 maps? > If you still need your topo maps, convert > the NAD27 coordinates to WGS84. Or update your maps. My USGS Topos are all NAD83 and feature only transformation ticks to NAD27. They are 8 yrs old. Also, take a look at, Geo Convert for a tool that does format and coordinate conversions all at once. In addition to some other nice features. I'm thinking of adding a configuration then to support at least NAD27, NAD83 and WGS84. I'd like to get a feel for whether it's worth supporting these others for the geocaching community, NAD27 at least. For NAD83 and WGS84 they're still sometimes referred to as using the GRS80 ellipsoid as if they were exactly the same. NAD83 and WGS84 are so close with identical radii and differing by only .0000014162 in flattening. In contrast to NAD27 with uses the Clarke 1866 Ellipsoid of significantly different radius and flattening. It may be worth it just to support NAD27. HTH and any feedback appreciated, /jim/pearland/tx

Another alternative, and I say this because I need some folks to try this tool out as it's fresh off the block, is here, http://www.technologydynamics.com/software/dtpt/math_geoconvert.html You'll find a temporary web page with a download link and some screenshots. In a nutshell, it's a comprehensive solution to many common questions. The highlights include, * Calculation of Lat/Lon format conversions as well as from Lat/Lon <--> UTM. * Calcs surface distance between points (accepts UTM or Lat/Lon) * Uses both great circle and small circle formula to calculate X and Y translations * Calculates small circle d/m/s distances for any specific latitude but also calculates an entire table in 5 degree increments I wrote the tool because of my own geocaching experiences and problems trying to out think folks on multi-caches when the instructions were too vague. How exactly does one subtract 48 from N 29° 39.880'? So my initial goal was to create a tool that played all the possibilities and let me see some of the magnitude of the possibilities. From there the rest just sort of naturally followed. One needs to adjust for latitude when figuring longitude adjustments, etc. The tool is freeware and I've tested it myself but I'm sure there's something here or there I've missed so any bug reports or descriptions of problems are appreciated. The tool is very self-explanatory and the UI is highly flexible. For example, most input boxes take lat/lon in any format, DDD, DMM, DMS and UTM. Any thoughts and feedback are much appreciated. /jim/pearland/tx

I think you mean (780 - 52 = 728) right? Ok, you're not being very clear but at least you've pinned yourself down in a way that limits the interpretation. Then you're interpreting the 52 as .052 and suggesting it means the smallest possible change. I'll buy that as a sensible approach. For my cache it still feels too far but so be it. Thanks. Given that no one else has had a problem I'd still like to hear more on this issue. Maybe this is a cache description problem and is uncommon. Still, why buy vagueness when clarity is on sale? Without a clear set of instructions any answer is an interpretation and I guess us engineers need some remedial math help cuz no one else seems to have had a problem! Ugh! Beat me over the head with rotting drift wood please! -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX [This message was edited by jimburns on October 12, 2003 at 07:25 PM.]

As the subject states I'm having problems trying to modify some coordinates. No one else who's logged a visit seems to have had a problem and I know the cache is "close" to the given coordinates. Ok I'll keep it simple and use example coordinates. * Subtract 52 from 28° 38.780 That's all I know... ok so here's my thinking... 1) Must not be degrees, change way too large. This also then cancels converting to decimal format as this would have the same basic effect. 2) Must not be whole number minutes, change way too large... but 3) Now the only options left involve changing the format of 52! Should it be .52? .052? Smallest change then would be .052. .052 x 1.1508 mi = .056mi x 1760 yds = 105.32 yds This seems more reasonable but I'm unsure of these format games. 4) As a last option I could convert DD MM.MMM to DMS and consider the 52 to be seconds. But this still results in what appears to be too large of a change. 52 x .01918mi = .92064 mi In the situation in front of me even the 100 yards seem a bit large but it's the smallest interpretation possible. Or does someone see something I'm missing? My biggest beef is that I shouldn't have to be playing guessing games with such a cache. Comments or help anyone? Thanks for any help! /j/pearland/tx -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX [This message was edited by jimburns on October 11, 2003 at 03:34 PM.]

quote:Originally posted by Mr. Snazz:I'd rather have somebody road-trip a bug in that fashion, if they were visiting caches anyway, than have somebody simply take the bug to the last cache they visit on their trip. It better reflects the true course of the bug, imho. That's a good point. And maybe we need to make a distinction in the use of the term "road trip." If you're out on a hunt and hunt 9 caches successfully and pick up a TB on #2. The TB, by definition a hitchhiker, should be logged in and out of each cache #3-#9 as it DID travel that way. Deciding where to PLACE the bug is a different issue altogether. IF you knew the details and goals on this TB beforehand you may be able to determine how your cache hits #3-#9 work into the goal of the TB and, for example, you may place it at the end of your day's hunt in #9. But if you don't know this TB's goals you pretty much have to wait until you get back to base and look it up. At which point you can determine how to place it. (Certainly if you take a TB you have a responsibility to try an place it in a way that advances its goal. /try/ being the key word since nothings perfect and honor must reign.) But I see this as something quite different from this notion of "road trip" where the intention is quite different than the TB merely being a hitchhiker and more for the recording of miles. As some of this discussion has explained there may well be good reasons for road trips. It's not really something one can "rule" for or against. Ultimately the basic tenets supersede any need to get mired in the right or wrong of road trips. /j -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX

Do you normally KNOW the TB's mission BEFORE picking it up from a cache. I'm a complete newbie here and so far the only significant information I've taken with me on a hunt besides the waypoint in my GPSr is the description from the cache page and/or any hints I want. I /may/ know beforehand that a bug may be in a cache and I try to do my homework on this bug beforehand if I can but it doesn't always work out perfectly. I have all the waypoints for the caches in my general area in my GPSr I may also not go to them all at once or close to the dates I uploaded them. I think the idea behind the "TB Passport" may indicate that predominately people /encounter/ TB's more than know beforehand to expect one. ? /j -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX

quote:Originally posted by GeoJose:I picked this travel bug up last week and have now read the three forum threads about it. I recieved a pleasant email that refers to Otispug as a geocaching God and now i read that I am of suspicious character and Otispug is obsessed and has issues. I don't get it. But I am beginning to understand the "good riddance comment". Oh shoot, you said California! I was going to ask if you live in a concealed carry state! And in CA, well, you have that 10 day's to plan for. Darn... /j -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX

quote:Originally posted by GeoJose:I picked this travel bug up last week and have now read the three forum threads about it. I recieved a pleasant email that refers to Otispug as a geocaching God and now i read that I am of suspicious character and Otispug is obsessed and has issues. I don't get it. But I am beginning to understand the "good riddance comment". Oh shoot, you said California! I was going to ask if you live in a concealed carry state! And in CA, well, you have that 10 day's to plan for. Darn... /j -- Jim Burns Pearland, TX