Bud

Actually, never mind about this part, I just realized how off topic we're getting here from the original post... No, no, no. We need to start an argument about multiple logging of virtual pipe bomb light pole event caches on bridges with bad cliched hints in New Hampshire. NOW we're way off topic. Sorry, don't close down the thread, I was just funnin'.

PM sent. Regardless of whether I can be of any assistance, I'd certainly be interested in some of the aggregate knowledge that you're able to put together.

I've been lurking on this discussion since the beginning of the last thread before it was closed down, and some of this is still unclear to me: -Is it still in question whether this event ever really took place, since there are no reports of it anywhere? -Are there any cachers in the area that could go to the cache area and see this severely damaged tree, and upload a photo or report? -There was mention of other events taking place "in close proximity" to the cache location, but I missed that somewhere along the way. What else was happening that set the PD on red alert for this cache, other than a call from a cacher? Sorry if any/all of these things have been answered elsewhere. I'm just trying to close some of the gaps in my understanding. It's late, and my reading comprehension may be low. At least I won't be accused of trying to get on with CSI. EDIT: Found one of the purported answers in the old thread. Would still be interested if this was a real incident, or is being blown out of proportion for an agenda.

Hollow trees are too often hinted by "In the caching tree" Don't see it too often here in KY, but in TX, I'd often see URP (unnatural rock pile), or just "rock" I've got a magnetic cache on a footbridge that was near some cleared brush and trees, and had left the clue "Don't get stumped. No, really, don't." Had to change it after a complaint, though.

Welcome aboard. No need to apologize in advance for any of those three traits. We were all new here once. Both here and where I used to live (San Antonio, TX), we have retired women that leave pretty challenging caches in large numbers. Practice makes perfect with the GPSr use, and no matter what you do to the Garmin, you can't break it by poking at the buttons, so don't be afraid to explore its use.

Yep, this has been addressed a number of times, and always the same answer comes out: tell the truth. Law enforcement has a highly tuned BS filter, and will know if you're lying anyway; that's how they're trained. Telling the truth will require explaining the sport in some cases, but in most cases it'll just get you waved on by. I've had my share of contact with officers, mostly while night caching, and have never had a problem by giving them the whole truth.

Is anyone going to add anything of value to the original post, or is this going to continue to degenerate into the same discussion that was closed on 1/25 under another topic? No one is listening to anyone else except to gather quotes to use against them, and this is nothing but a bunch of chest thumping, accusations and proclaiming your viewpoint to be right, and everyone else is wrong according to your interpretation of the guidelines. While the OP did try to stir up some controversy, I'm sure that he didn't want the mean drunks from another bar crashing into here. This is so far off-topic, that it should be moved back to its original topic, and left to simmer and pressurize the way that it was before the 25th, until the desired endpoint is reached by one of the arguing parties, which is presumably to have the opponent so offended that they don't come back. Please? Sorry for the appeal to discuss the actual topic. Please continue on with your pocket cache debate here.

So, in keeping with the actual OP's question, I'm not sure how much geo-creationism there is, as this is nothing like the game that I started playing 6 years ago. The question should be whether there is a fruitful adaptation (evolution, if you must), or if it's devolving in to something less noble than was originally intended; I know, I'm not the first to posit this view. There have been so many improvements to the sport/activity that any list that I make would be incomplete. Listing improvements, PQ's, caches along a route (along with filtering out micro's, my favorite) and decentralizing the review process out to local reviewers who are more familiar with local/state processes are just a few of the improvements that we've seen in the last few years, that point to steady improvement in the quality of the game. The proliferation of micros that can be retrieved from the car window (microspew) , the intense emphasis on numbers rather than having a good time and getting out to be active, and any variety of topics that people can find to argue about in the forums, rather than get out and cache, all point to some areas that have not improved the sport so much as fundamentally changed it from its original intent, for good or ill. Whatever your view of "G-d" is in the geocaching realm, any advancements are not due to chance improvements by mutation, but by a very involved management and development team (deity, if you prefer). So that does strike the deist theory of creationism/evolution, we are not out here on our own trying to figure out what we're doing. For every improvement that someone could cite, there is probably one equivelant detractor that they could name as well, also implemented by that same team. I would not say the same thing as the next person about what would be an improvement or a detriment, and neither of us would be wrong. I suppose that I might be a fence-sitter as many of the previous on-topic posts have stated. There have been changes from the original intent of geocaching. It is growing and diversifying, not only in ways that many individual players find to be an improvement, but there have been changes that have benefited EVERY geocacher. There are individual favorites, but this is a better sport for all involved than it was when I started out. In addition to changes to the sport, we've also founded a community of like minded cachers who have different ideas about things, but still get out on weekends and actually cache. That in itself is the biggest improvement, and the one that trumps all other improvements or detriments. We've found a place where we can all do what we want within the much widened guidelines of "the three rules" and co-exist with micro hunter and serious hiker alike.

Dang, I need to log on to the forums more than once a day. Once I saw the title of this discussion, I knew it would only be a matter of time until it degenerated into the Criminal vs. Alabama Rambler discussion, and here I am getting in so late. (Dons flameproof underwear)

Same thing happened to us while hunting a cache just south of Austin, but he was on the other side of a small river, grunting along at us, making it known that our presence wasn't appreciated. Fortunately he didn't decide to swim across to tell us in person.

That would truly be a sight (fight?) to see. No, Signal and The Flying Spaghetti Monster should not fight... Thanks! I was looking for a new wallpaper for my laptop! This month's Signal at Stonehenge was nice, but I get bored having the same thing for a whole month.

As long as Signal is a consenting adult, there should be no problem with that.

Glad they caught them. The fact that they caught them by means of the device that they stole makes it even better. That the device happens to be one of my favorite toys is just icing on the cake.

Found the Concrete River Overlook cache in Atlanta over Thanksgiving, and before we found the cache, we checked the end of the guardrail, and found a magnetic key box which actually contained someone's keys. Not sure that I've ever seen one used for that purpose, just micro's mostly. The cache was actually much more clever, and closer to the coords that finally zeroed out on the GPSr. Apart from that, we've found the usual crack pipes, dead and/or living animals, and a $20 at a CITO highway pickup.

I've been married to sun-moon-starz, my caching buddy for 20 years this June. She's more of a numbers player, and loves to snag the micro's, where I like the long hikes and ammo cans. We make compromises and I hunt her way if she's along, as long as we get some of them my way throughout the weekend. She's a good sport who tolerates my "micro-rants" pretty well, as long as she's getting a find.

sun-moon-starz and I have already been talking to Odragon with tentative plans to go along, though he's been pulling ahead in me in numbers, so I don't think it will be for my 5000th. I should be well over 4k by then, assuming my finds keep up like they have been. Have to cut back on some of the geo-tourism this year to save up for that trip; could be the trip of a lifetime, though!

Is that the man hisself on a BOAT, and looking RELAXED?!?! How'd you do that? You wouldn't believe the fast-talking and assurances that I had to make to get him to come do an island cache with us. If that boat had capsized, I'd have had to carry him to shore myself; thankfully all turned out well, and we got a find.

It was recently posted that one of our caches was found by someone with a metal detector, and I think that it was a good idea. If it's dark you take a flashlight, if it's slick you take a walking stick, and both of those things help you find the cache as well. It's just making use of the equipment at hand.

Dropped a new cache from about 6' up, in to a hollow tree which looked like it had a pretty secure bottom, but the cache kept on falling down to the base. So somewhere out there in South Texas (I don't even remember which park...Pedernales Falls? Inks Lake?) is a brand new cache that I never got to activate.

I must have gotten better looking after getting my Charter Membership; my wife wanted to be around me a lot more! Of course, that whole thing about getting her started caching and only having one GPSr in the family may have had something to do with it.

Found a turtle in a cache, hopefully placed by a muggle, since the last log had been 2 days before, and they hadn't mentioned it. Released him, and off he, umm, ran...kinda.

I think Keystone has a point. I've met a few reviewers, and they were avid cachers. I can't imagine that if there was something wrong with a cache that they found, that they would allow it to be ignored. However, being active cachers means 2 things: There are a lot of caches that they've not yet laid eyes on, and since they actually cache, they don't spend all of their time scouring the thousands of cache logs in their area looking for excessive DNF's. Post a Needs Maintenance or Should Be Archived log as needed, and you're helping the reviewer keep abreast of situations in the state, and improving the caches in your community. And if it comes down to torches and pitchforks, I want one of those 4 prong hay-forks. More prongs = better cache enforcement action.

I'm with the "leave it there" school of thought. Removing it would be just as bad as it being "muggled", and there are a number of reasons already mentioned that the cacher might not have picked it up yet. If you've got enough time to hunt archived caches, you could always still log them as finds, assuming the listing hasn't been locked for some reason.

Too bad I'm working tonight, though if my wife had seen this post several hours ago, she might have been game. Perhaps next time. Keep an eye out for our local events, too. There are several locals you could meet who might be up for night caching.

Learned quick about what happens when you're watching the GPSr and not where you're going. On my very first cache hunt, I walked straight in to some barb wire, scraping my shins, one down to bare bone. Almost 6 years later, still have very shiny thin scars over my shins.