romulox

Came up empty on forum searches... I'm going to Norway and wanted to know which datum to set the GPSr to? Currently it's wgs84. Do I start to experience datum shifts in this region? Oh, and do I turn off WAAS, or will the GPSr just ignore my waas setting? Also, can I safely assume that if I purchase City Nav. Europe, that it and my city Nav. North America will play nice with my legend cx? I know it sounds stupid... I was just wondering if there were any gotchas about registering this new map set, or the 2 map sets coexisting, or some limitation I need to be aware of when using unlock codes. I just don't want to blow $300 and find out I can't unlock the maps for some reason I never thought of. thanks!

Hey folks. I didn't start this thread, but I unintentionally hijacked it. People wanted me to post my results when I got my Legend cx replacement from Garmin. The unit is older than the one I sent in (serial # is 2,000+ lower). The paperwork said the unit passed all quality control tests. I turned it on, let it sit in the open for over an hour to get the almanac data (instructions said 20 mins). Then I switched to waas and let it sit again. This morning I came to work and visited to same waypoints as before. This "new" unit has me standing in the same locations as my old unit. I turned off waas hoping there was some algorithm problem but I would be wrong. Again, I was off (and for the people not involved in the history of this thread - when I say "off", I mean "off" - like way off when compared to other and older receivers. Not the whiny "why am I 4' from a cache, what's wrong" type of "off") To add to the experience, I have to get on the phone and wait for customer service in order to get mapsource remapped to my new unit's ID. Conclusion - and this is just from my observations - I'm not making a blanket statement since not everyone has problems: This Christmas two of my family members wants to get into geocaching - one just wants to cache: she will get an Etrex Yellow. My mom wants both caching and street maps - she'll get the 60cx. As for me, the Legend will remain in my ram mount as a nav unit and I'll take it to Europe to walk the streets. My etrex yellow has been promoted to waypoint finder/marker. And if I ever get into confluence'ing, I'll take the yellow. Thanks to everyone who supported the cause, gave me suggestions, technical advice, and expectation guidelines.

Here's where I stand: When I spoke to support today, the guy said: "I have a Legend and I turn it on and and I get 12' accuracy" I thought he was going to pursuade me to keep my unit, but with almost no effort on my part he gave me the address to send my unit back. They'll give me a "new" one (I'm guessing it will be a refurb that has passed quality control). Whatever - in any event, Garmin support was good to me and took my concern seriously. I was worried I would get the treatment of: "here's another one who wants 6 inch accuracy on waypoints" Hopefully my new legend will fulfill all of my wishes and dreams. thanks to everyone for the info

Hi Guys.... No one has reported back on the success of the 2 "fixes", so I tried them and here's my report for all of you Legend cx owners. I did both the "reset your unit" with the (page+enter) + power instructions, then I followed that up with the "select new location" instructions. To make sure my GPSr was in the best possible position to start anew, I placed the unit on the apex of my roof - no steel, no trees, no surrounding buildings - just open sky. As a side note for anyone just wanting to learn about what happens when units are reset - I don't know what it exactly does internally, but I can tell you what I observered: 1) firmware stayed the same (naturally) 2) All personalization (i.e. day/night mode, lock on road, page sequences, etc...) are reset back to defaults 3) All waypoints are deleted 4) Tracks stored in the unit's internal memory are deleted 5) Things stored on the SD card are not touched. In any event, the 2 "fixes" ended up, for me, being just like the cable company telling you unplug your modem for 5 minutes - it did nothing that I could notice. IN FACT.... it apprears to have made my problem slightly worse (but I really can't prove that 100%)! I revisted all of my test points. Historically I've been going back to the same wrong locations, while good old etrex yellow is putting me to shame. Af ter the "fixes", I appear to be longitudinally off by 4 to 6 feet to my original wrong readings from the Legend - and not in a good way; like, I'm being put even farther away from a waypoint! For me, it feels like my whole problem is that GPSr kind of has me shifted off "center" with respect to longitude. And when I say "center", I don't mean "dead on coordinates"; I mean more like a conceptual mean or average or approximate center. A center that everyone can enjoy. I'll call Garmin today, see what they have to say. I don't know if "cross posting" is frowned upon in these forums, but I'm going to post this entry in http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=134219 since they're turning into the same thing. PS: To Sputnik 57 - I'm triple quadrupally sure my datum is set to WGS84

Hi Guys.... No one has reported back on the success of the 2 "fixes", so I tried them and here's my report for all of you Legend cx owners. I did both the "reset your unit" with the (page+enter) + power instructions, then I followed that up with the "select new location" instructions. To make sure my GPSr was in the best possible position to start anew, I placed the unit on the apex of my roof - no steel, no trees, no surrounding buildings - just open sky. As a side note for anyone just wanting to learn about what happens when units are reset - I don't know what it exactly does internally, but I can tell you what I observered: 1) firmware stayed the same (naturally) 2) All personalization (i.e. day/night mode, lock on road, page sequences, etc...) are reset back to defaults 3) All waypoints are deleted 4) Tracks stored in the unit's internal memory are deleted 5) Things stored on the SD card are not touched. In any event, the 2 "fixes" ended up, for me, being just like the cable company telling you unplug your modem for 5 minutes - it did nothing that I could notice. IN FACT.... it apprears to have made my problem slightly worse (but I really can't prove that 100%)! I revisted all of my test points. Historically I've been going back to the same wrong locations, while good old etrex yellow is putting me to shame. Af ter the "fixes", I appear to be longitudinally off by 4 to 6 feet to my original wrong readings from the Legend - and not in a good way; like, I'm being put even farther away from a waypoint! For me, it feels like my whole problem is that GPSr kind of has me shifted off "center" with respect to longitude. And when I say "center", I don't mean "dead on coordinates"; I mean more like a conceptual mean or average or approximate center. A center that everyone can enjoy. I'll call Garmin today, see what they have to say. I don't know if "cross posting" is frowned upon in these forums, but I'm going to post this entry in http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=141992 since they're turning into the same thing. PS: To Sputnik 57 - I'm triple quadrupally sure my datum is set to WGS84

Yes, I'm interested to know the results as well. I guess I can do them myself but then I miss the "expectation" of waiting! I too am having issues with my legend (as some of you are already aware). Here's a link showing new photographical proof of my legend cx's inaccurate readings compared against my old etrex yellow (go yellow!) http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=2424107

Hi guys... I lied (I said I wouldn't do more testing). I did 1 more test after I remembered I had an old Etrex Yellow. It's not conclusive with only 3 tests, but my Etrex Yellow is apparently more accurate than my Legend In this picture, you can see the positional differences. Something I would suspect to be the case right off, and would assume the Legend is more accurate - since it's a fancier model. Both units were on for 20 minutes (car ride to work): In this photo I'm at cache #1. All the pics are cell phone pics, so the angles are skewed. Anyway, I think the picture speaks for itself. I'm holding the Legend. The yellow and legend are at "0 feet" to target in all photos. Moving on to cache #2. In this one, my Legend and Yellow is equidistant to the cache. But the log for this cache says the coordinates are wrong and it puts you in the ditch in front of the Hooters sign (Yellow wins again): Finally, cache #3. This was the most disapointing. The Etrex Yellow is 1 foot away from the cache, my Legend (almost off camera) is 30' away, and I'm standing far back to try to photograph the results. ========================== My Etrex Yellow is performing the same as my buddy's 60cx. And better than my Legend! (NOTE: I keep saying "mine" and "his" becuase I do want want to conclude that ALL legends are behaving oddly) Any advice? Call Garmin? Email Garmin? Get a replacement unit? Just forget it? My tests are flawed? Sell this and buy a 60cx? Thanks!

Wow! Thanks for the updates. I did some more testing which is inline with Sputnik57's observation. At the same time - maybe I have a bum unit! So here goes... Wasting more time at work... out we went. This time I was not concerned with finding coordinates, just walking around for about 1/2 mile in the open - stopping a few times to compare my position between the 2 units. While stopped, I would notice the sats being picked up and then move one of the units away until their positions read to be the same. Test 1: units read the same position at 15' apart - both of us picking up a few different sats Test 2: units read the same position at 12' apart - both of us picking up a few different sats Test 3: units read the same position at 21' apart - both of us picking up a few different sats Test 4: units read the same position at 8' apart - both of us picking up a few different sats -if I stop right here, I understand why this is thanks to everyone's posts. I totally do - Tests 3 and 4, however, included a cache. In Test 3, the cache was 7' away from the 60cx and about 20' away from me (the Legend cx) and our positions were reading the same. In Test 4, the cache was 1' away from the 60cx and 9' away from me (the Legend cx) and our positions read the same. This trend in tests 3 and 4 is common with me and my friends 60cx. Hence my post on the current "legend is inaccurate" thread. He's is consistantly, actually always, closer to a waypoint (created by a thrid party) than I am eventhough were both reading the same position. It would seem to me, a dummy who skips out on work to mess with this, that a waypoint might be more "equidistant" between us while we're standing 20' apart. Anyway, in addition to the normal factors of GPSr receiving differences, the SiRF III chipset maybe what's performing all of the magic. The truth of the matter is that between MY legend and HIS 60cx (I'm not saying all legends or 60s) he has the superior unit. And rightfully so, right? He paid more and is using the new SiRF architecture. I'm sure others have different stories of how their legend is dead-on or how their 60cx stinks, but I can just report my case and observations. Plus, I'm tired of testing, tired of dealing with this, and I'm 60 days out of my return policy so I can't really go out and get the 60cx. I think I'll cut down on caching (I'm scared of snakes and aligators anyway) and switch to survey markers - those are pretty obvious from 20' away. Shame for by buddy's accuracy - he has no thrill of the hunt! (See you tomorrow dude ) thanks guys/gals - excuse the spelling.

Thanks for the replies. All of the information makes sense. I never thought about the units picking up different satellites either. I remember my buddy saying for WAAS he was showing sat #50-something and I was using #35 (I think). But at the same time, we've been at this cache about 7 times and we're both stading in our same spots 20' away from each other. I think I'm just going to take this as "it is what it is". I know these consumer units are inherently inaccurate. I was thinking maybe the 2 units were using different math or something to calculate position. But the truth is, there seem to be WAY too many variables to determine the hows and whys of a particular unit. My buddy and I are going to do more testing today (all dependant on our workload!). If I come up with more results, I'll let you know. We're going survey marker hunting, be we need to find a modern marker. Thanks to all -Romulox

This may start out reading like the current "legend cx" accuracy thread, but that's not my intention. This is a general shout out asking for help or advice on "why this is". I'm new to the world of GPSr and would appreciate any clarification. The story starts out with my buddy and I going caching (and this thread has nothing to do with caching). After turning on our units which are both using WAAS, allowing them to sit for about 15 minutes, and then sitting them next to each other, their positions were as follows: Legend cx ========== N XX°XX.412' W 0XX°XX.215' 60 cx ========== N XX°XX.412' W 0XX°XX.214' From doing some math from information found on the internet and realizing I have longitudinal differences around central Florida vs the equator, a difference in .001 minutes of longitude should be about 4 to 6 feet. This seems normal to me and is not the question at all - just laying the groundwork. My buddy and I went caching. The cache, and us, were in a large field - open sky and no trees. The cache was located at the following coordinates. N XX°XX.353' W 0XX°XX.256' My friend with the 60cx arrived about 9' from the cache. I, with the legend, arrived about 20' from the cache (he's historically closer to all caches we find as referenced in the "Legend cx accuracy" thread on this board). Both of us, walking very slowly, had reached "0 feet to destination", with respect to the cache, according to the GPSr. Standing where we were, we called out our positions. Both of us were EXACTLY on the cache coordinates: N XX°XX.353' W 0XX°XX.256' ... yet, we were standing about 20-25 feet apart. I figured we should be standing somewhere within a few feet of each other since our positions were reported to be identical. Finding that this was odd since initially our units were just .001' in difference, I walked towards my friend. Standing next to him my GPSr read: N XX°XX.353' W 0XX°XX.260' This difference in .007' would account for us standing 25 feet apart. We decided to turn off our units and walk back to work (we were goofing off obviously). A few hours later, we revisited the same cache - this time turning on our units and going as soon as we got a signal - versus letting them sit and acquire data for 15 minutes. We arrived at the cache just like before: standing 20' apart yet reportedly on the same position. As a 3rd test, which is admittedly not fair since it was like setting a cache, my friend walked 200' away, marked a waypoint, gave me the position, and I walked there. When I reached the designated coordinates, I was again 25 feet away from his target (which is the stick in this picture). My question is, with 3 tests, why would a legend cx and a 60cx be physically so far apart when our GPSrs are are displaying the exact same positional data? Is this just how GPSrs are? I mean, I could understand maybe Garmin vs. Any_Other_Brand, but Garmin vs Garmin? Is the hardware that different between the two? Seriously, I'm not trying to start another accuracy thread, I'm more interested in learning why this might be. To me it doesn't make sense, but I've only had a GPSr for about 3 months so I'm just trying to understand it all. My current working theory is that the legend's processor is much slower than the one in the 60cx and if I had just stood still for a few minutes, my positional data would have drifted more towards the 60cx's. Thanks!

test photo test photo

Like dope, I was in a hurry and forgot the most important piece of info in my first post that may have made it more relevant to the topic: When my friend, with a 60cx, and I, with the legend cx, go out looking for the same cache (with the same coordinates), he's always right on and I'm always 20-35' away waving at him. It's embarassing. We've tested with several caches - verifying we're actually goign to the same coordinates. Our sat. accuracies are showing similar results too. that's it.

Thanks for the info and telling me everything is okay! And I'm sorry for getting the thread off track. I thought I was dealing with apples and apples. Thanks again!

Hi, new poster, but I wanted to share my experience in relation to this thread. I use WAAS, and while caching I knew I could be off up to 3 meters (at least from what I've read) and if someone marked their cache without using WAAS, then they could be off up to 9 meters meaning my search radius could possibly be up to 12 meters. I have no idea if that rationale is correct and after reading this thread, maybe it is NOT. Using my legent cx, when I'm within 10-15' of a cache my pointer will change directions wildly. I end up walking around in circular zig-zags - like someone's playing a joke on me! On the rare chance I get down to 2 or 3 feet, if I move one more inch, the arrow changes directions 180 degrees and says the cache is now 20' away. My setup is as follows: >Legend Cx >Snap to road option is off (or whatever it's called) >WAAS enabled >My almanac is loaded (I think) >when approaching a cache, I make sure many or most of my signal bars have the "D" displayed indicating differential data, which is good, right? >My GPS normally says "Accurate up to +- 7 feet" which is correct. >fresh batteries. My story of inaccuracy is true for seemingly about 70% of caches - maybe less, it just seems like a lot. I don't expect to ever get down to a 1 or 0 foot accuracy, but WAAS is defined to have a 3 meter accuracy (so says the gpsinformation site) and I would like to be within that radius without the pointer moving in random 20' directions. Just wanted to post a "me too"... I pray for a firmware update. -Romulox

Hi, new to everything and love geocaching. I currently own the legend cx and city navigator north america v8. I'm planning a trip to Norway and was/am planning on buying the city navigator europe, but after seeing the price tag and only going to 1 country, I'm wondering if there is an alternative for mapsource. Is there another company that sells individual country maps that are compatible with garmin units? I'm trying not to come off as a cheap-o... if the solution is to buy CN-europe, I'll do that... but being a noob and not being in the know, I feel like I might be missing better or smarter alternatives. 2nd question. Are the POIs in the CN software addressed-based (so they can understandibly be "off" a little bit) or are they specifically inputted into the software as true lat/log coordinates and therefore should be dead-on?