biosearch

Hmmm.... I'd take up all of the server's memory if I listed everything, so I'll limit it to... two of everything that everyone else wants.... you guys have good ideas...

Okay, okay, I concede....

I'll quote the moderator here as I'm sure he knows a thing or two about this geocaching thingy that we all apparently do. No. 3, good we're clear on that now. No. 1 & 2, part of the rules, but apparently not enforced, including the owner of the cache in question (or the owner in question for the cache noted, or...) "Take a breath and leave footprints?" Really? So the real rule is that we follow the rules, as long as they suit the cache owner?

Red herring.... Logical fallacy.... hmmmm The cache is rated as a difficulty level 1 and a terrain level 2. Since this incident arose the (the log in question was made Nov 12) the owner posted this message (on Nov 19) If it is a Terrain level five, mark it as such. If it is a terrain level 2 mark it as such. Which is it? And no, the disability issue is never a red herring. I am assuming that you are, by the insignia I see, military sbell. I pray that you are not effected by your service as others have been and will continue to be. The disability issue is one that can be difficult to deal with. Disabilities range in many ways. A wheelchair bound individual may be able to get to some caches and not others. A person missing a limb may be able to ignore the "no disabilities" marker and still get to the cache. It is difficult to say. And what a cache owner sees as not being restricted by disabilities may very well be extremely difficult for some people. If an individual comes within distance of reaching the cache, being able to see it, but not be able to touch it what harm is there. Are we that eaten up by this that we can't say that this is fine. This is supposed to be a fun, or I thought it was. Did I misunderstand the whole purpose of this? I'm confused, and the more that I read the forums, and I suppose that I should not, the more discouraged I become that the group of people who take part in this are so obsessed by this that they can not see the line where fun breaks off and stupidity begins. Perhaps I should just stop reading the forums?

Same "hitch" in every major park system, National, most State, etc. Regardless of whether or not it has contact information in it, it is considered abandonded property. Reasoning, I'm guessing here, if a gps was found out in the middle of nowhere with owner information recorded in it, the park service officials would not leave it where it was. They would collect it, contact the individual and return the item. If not collected they would handle it as any other lost/abandoned item. Contact information or no, left without being attended by a visitor, abandoned. Or that is how I read it and how I understand it from those that I have spoken with.

Okay, so I'm new, but.... I think that signing the log is a good thing. It proves that you were there and you did what you said that you did. However, I have a lot of experience with disabilities... If I were a cache owner and someone wrote to me and said, "I found it, but couldn't reach it" I'd have to think to myself, "Self, they went and looked for it, but something prevented them from getting it when they found it." "And self" says I "there are things that limit people from being able to do the same sorts of things that others do, but we don't want to exclude them from the game do we?" Now of course there will be those that disagree, that is what the world is all about after all, differences. Differences in viewpoints, differences in backgrounds, differences in abilities.... but having lived with crap for many years, being kept out of things that I used to do, not being able to get around well, having to depend upon other people, I'll be damned if I get to a cache, can't get to it because of something that I have no control over, and be told that I can't log that as a find. It is easy to make these decisions when you're on the other side of the fence. This is a non competitive sport, an all inclusive sort of thing, something fun.... Isn't it?

Yep....

I don't know if I posted this yet, my memory has serious problems for a number of reason... In any case since I thought it was worthwhile I would post it again. The link is http://www.kyrec.org/annual_conference.html and on this page you will find the link to the pdf formatted schedule of their annual conference, the annual conference of the Kentucky Recreation and Parks Society. I called someone that I knew at the planning board in our town. I know that they have major planning going on for a "greenway" I have an idea for a number of caches and thought they might be interested. So I'm on the phone with her and explain what I am thinking about. So I point her to geocaching on the web, she does a search and finds this page. The presentation just happened to be taking place a couple of miles from the office I was working in at the time, and the presentation was taking place at the exact time. I would have gone if it weren't. In any case it is obvious that there are those in Kentucky that see the benefits of geocaching. Perhaps this can be a point of reference for those of you in other states that are trying to work with parks and rec in your local areas. Just a thought.....

Started the thread, did I, and feel, do I, that this is all very much on topic. The topic is the issue of permission, public or state owned property, difficulty in getting permission, how to go about it, what avenues to use, what individuals to speak to and, much more importantly, why. Your addition, and others, addressing the issues that are taking place in SC and elsewhere are very relevant and much appreciated.... It all helps, especially to one who is new to this, as I am....

So that is approximately 0.04% of the population of the US, or 0.005% of the world population (give or take a bit). Or do I have those off a bit?

So, I read an article that is linked from geocaching.com The numbers cited was 550,000 geocachers worldwide... Anyone have any idea where that number came from, is it even close, would it be something that is valid to use, is there anyone that I can e-mail or a place on geocaching.com that I can find this information. I work with databases, the folks at Groundspeak should be able to quote a number within seconds from a simple query. Do they have that available. Again, I would like a number that could be used to help explain geocaching (and geocaching) to individuals when I'm looking for permission to place caches. Additionally, state statistics (number of caches, number of geocachers, number of logs within a set period of time) would be nice..... Anyone from Groundspeak listening?

I have to say that I didn't expect the thread to go this direction, but from the looks of things, it is not very unexpected to some. This may well be the reason that the thread has been discussed "time and time again", there is no clarity, or perhaps I should say that the understanding of authorization is interpreted differently by members of the geocaching community. Along with this issue is the issue of how it is interpreted by the general public, person's in position of authority and landowners. I try and look at it this way. Let's say I wanted to place a sign for a friend who was running for public office. Whatever permission that I should get for that sign is the same permission that I should get for a geocache. Of course, and here is where it gets sticky, there are situation where this will not work. But it is a good baseline in my opinion. Granted I've only placed one cache, but there it is. In our community, the one I live in physically, those signs are not allowed. I feel that in this community the community association would not want people coming into the community to hunt geocaches. So this area is not in my view accessible to geocaches. The landowner should be asked, however the community association should also be looked to for guidance/authority. The land owner may be the one to do this, or the geocacher. The same thing goes for anywhere else. An owner of a hanger at an airport would need to be asked for permission to place a geocache, however the airport authorities should also be consulted, and the airport security may be the ones who know the guidelines/rules. In my case, the original post for this thread, I felt that the campus security should be asked, they were the ones who would be patroling the area. If there was an issue with the caches they would know the rules/regulations regarding this sort of thing. As they have never had this issue come up and could not site specific guidelines they were not able to either give me guidance or grant permission. In this case I must obviously go to someone else. If they had said "yes" I would have accepted the fact that they knew something that I did not and would quote them as the party that gave permission. As it stands I must go to another office to gain permission and have that office inform the campus security, or get some document to use to inform campus security. Simply placing a cache, or looking for permission from one individual is not all that is required in some cases. Some cases are much easier and require very little or nothing. I think that they main issue here is that the circumstances vary to such a degree that one answer is not acceptable for all situations. And as usual, I could be very very wrong....

Yep....

Well, I'm still working on it. I now have some contacts, I am working on something else from the security dept that might help. There are other cachers at the university that I have found through facebook (I joined to keep track of my daughter, I hate those pages, so please don't think poorly of me). Anyway, I'm going to contact some of them and see what we can do together. And Airmapper, I might know someone at BGTC. If you would like I can check and see if they still have a bit of a voice there and see if they would be willing to talk with someone. I don't know, can try if you would like. I'm not the type who give up. Oh, and check out the following site. http://www.kyrec.org/ Take a look at page five of the conference schedule, top left session listed. You may be able to use this when discussing geocaching with the local authorities that you deal with. I contacted someone at the Bowling Green City today and they actually mentioned it to me, the conference was taking place in BG afterall, and that session just happened to be taking place as we were on the telephone. Something to think about. Would have loved to be in the session. More about Lisa here: http://techlines.ky.gov/2006/apr/geocaching_weekend.htm I'm sure some of you were at that event. Inroads are being made. I think that it just takes time.... A lot to be said for a positive attitude...

You can also add a comma between the lat and long. Additionally, if you want to name the waypoint you can put the name in parenthesis after the coord. Like this: N 36° 55.262, W 086° 26.490 (Ceratina)

Be careful with that statistic. Some land managers may want tons of visitors and be impressed by a huge number of cachers. Others may not want many visitors and may give approval if you explain that caches tend to get many visits in the first few weeks and then fall off to only a few per week (or less). Understand, and this goes back to the whinning topic that I posted the other day concerning getting permission, etc. I'm looking for the data to quote in the cases in which I believe that the individual would want more traffic to the site. For instance, there is a project underway here in my hometown in which they are building a large complex of multi-use paths, bicycle trails, etc. Many of these go through or around significant town features, etc. I am going to discuss geocaching with the project manager. I am going to wait until I get a feel for it, although I know a great deal about it already having contacts in city planning and area environmentalist who work with her. My guess at the present would be that she would be very interested in an increase in traffic. The idea would be to promote the use of this greenway and to draw visitors to the town. While a bit misleading, in this case I think that it would be useful... Thoughts?

I've looked and can not find how many registered geocachers there are. That would be a good stat to have when looking for permission to place caches. (Yes I'm still stuck on that issue...)

Security gave me the name to the student activities coordinator/individual, that is my next stop. Learning process. And yes, many of the caches are probably placed without permission, doesn't mean I will, even if it means far less placed caches. Wish me luck with this guy...

I love my 210. I purchase the outdoor bundle so I got the maps, geocaching software, power adapter and case for a decent price. It is pretty much built with geocaching in mind. Not having a color screen doesn't bother me. Once you get used to the controls it just becomes automatic. I haven't used up all the memory yet (detailed maps can get to be a problem if you load really big ones, I've never had that problem and if I did I can always upload new ones from the laptop in the car). Rechargeable battery is not an issue as I use rechargeable AA. I highly recommend this unit if you're going to be backpacking, geocaching or using it as a hand-held help while traveling by automobile. If you want something really high-speed for the automobile you're going to spend far more and may never use the additional features. Check out theGPSStore, they probably have a deal on the outdoor bundle.

In today's environment I don't blame your husband one bit. Getting inquiring looks as a person of obvious European decent is one thing, having a middle eastern background would be very difficult in this sort of circumstances we find ourselves in today. A sign of the times, not a good one (and yet another topic) but there it is. Now, the issue with football, you really need to talk to him about that. There is just something wrong with a person who sits and stares at a screen for hours a d.... before I continue, computer's don't count....

I suppose so. Although I've seen odder things. If you think about it however, geocaching makes more sense. You learn more about the world around you, it is not confined to one area or venue and you are actually using a skill in land navigating, not to mention the skill/research that is necessary to place a good cache. I suppose that I should just deal with it and stop sniveling....

Staff, yea, go figure. One of the reasons I'm trying to do it right? By the way, I went into a church just down the street from my house (I mention this because I saw your profile) and asked about placing one there. I was dismissed off hand. Won't put one there. It just seems that when I ask permission, which is what one should do, it doesn't work. But, PLEASE, do not become one of those folks who decides to place it anyways. There seems to be too much of that around. Not only will I not do that, I can't, is just against everything I've ever done. Spent too many years following the rules word for word. I suppose that is one of the reasons I've gotten so annoyed. Is this that odd a thing, I mean geocaching? Is it any more bizarre than beating a little white ball all over hundreds of yards of perfectly manicured lawns, or sitting in the cold holding a stick with a piece of string and a hook hanging off it in the water, or.... fill in the blank? It seems that geocaching is looked at almost as if it is just so bizarre as to be abnormal. I don't know, kinda down after trying to do this the right way.... Stupid, yes... Funny thing is I went out this weekend to the event in E-town. Got there late but found them anyway. They were great people, the place that they went to cache was fabulous, the whole area is a spectacular area to just hike, better yet to cache. It may be that I saw that and am just envious.

You really don't know me.... My wife and children would strongly disagree with you... I guess the thing that really has me at this point is that I really enjoy this, have discovered some neat places that I never would have gone otherwise and want to continue. However, when I run into this sort of reaction I have to ask myself, why do they look at this as if it is unacceptable. I'm not talking about the liability issue, I'm thinking more on the lines of the fact that they find it weird or unusual. As if any other hobby makes any sense. Just babbling, sorry....

The campus security did give me that name of the individual at student activities, thinking that they would be the people/person to talk to. I'm guessing that it will be the next step in the chain of "pass you off to the next person" (I had twelve years in the Army to learn how that game works and can see it coming a long way off).

Understand, and I've started looking and have a couple of good ideas that I may be able to actually pitch to the city for a couple of reasons. One of them is a possible CITO event, for those of you in the area and want to respond. The thing is, there are a good number of micros on campus, and since I'm getting a bit tired of finding micros (no I'm not trying to start that thing again) I wanted to place a full sized cache. In cities, as you well know, it is difficult, and I've found a fantastic place on campus. But again, it is on campus. I'm still looking as you suggested.