paintfiction

Possibly but if you check my profile, you will see I travel a lot to cache and have visited and cached with cachers in many states and even countries. My comment was not based merely upon cachers in my area but cachers I have met and cached with from many different areas of the world. The overall negative opinion of the forums is widespread and common - even prevalent in my experience. My point is these forums are not representative of the overall geocaching community or their attitudes. Therefore, a poll taken in here is interesting and reflects the general attitude of the forums ONLY. If you're interested in finding out the prevalent attitude of geocachers in general, you might inquire about the results of the recent survey that was done. That may shed some light on this issue - if not specifically, at least in general.

Thank you for expressing my opinion! Unfortunately the prevailing forum attitude is why I am here. I feel it is important that I at least try to speak reason on some of these threads if for no other reason than to show that the majority opinion in here does not represent the prevailing opinion in the real (non-forum) geocaching community. If they dogpile you Diablo, they will have to dogpile me too.

I'm with you on this one Jeremy. I personally find geocaching to be much improved since my first finds. Everything is not perfect (said to placate the fault finders) but overall my "fun level" as improved. Sure, I can think of things that have deteriorated but why?

Why yours, of course!, My dear..... BTW.... the wind is blowing to the EAST!

'tweren't mine! Those were The Federation's tighty whiteys.... me? I'm a boxer brief or a freedom lover (demanding upon the weather). That TB you found was a direct result of The Fed being unable to go at the last minute and him (foolishly) leaving some of his clothes in ICM's Jeep. I'l bet he never misses an event again! Jim P.S. My underwear will be under tight lock and key to forestall any retaliatory TB activations. Of course, I'll have to be extra nice to ICM because he has pictures of me hunting a cache in my underwear.....

Keep reading. When you get to the guidelines (you know the stuff you have to say you read before you can submit your cache for listing?) you'll find that moving and temporary caches are not allowed. The "rules" are simple. The guidelines are not. The guidelines do not disallow moving or temporary caches. They merely say they will not be approved for listing. Further they NEVER discuss "moving" caches. The guidelines address caches whose goal is to move e.g. the old roaming style cache whose coordinates changed with each finder. Some of the pocket caches that were archived had goals to move so should've been archived after proper notice and through normal channels. Some of the caches are permanent installations that ocassionally move - a definite grey area in the guidelines. My cache is a good example. It was approved as written (with minor cache page edits for humor) after the roaming cache addition to the guidelines. The offensive part of this whole affair for me is that CO Admin archived my cache with no warning or allowance for me to change the cache page. If the cache needed to be archived, the appropriate thing to do would be to go through the proper channels i.e. send me an email describing the problem, allow me to change the cache page to reflect the latst guideline interpretation, if I failed to comply archive it. Further, it is an insult to the local reviewers to arbitrarily and unilaterally archive my cache without allowing the local reviewers opportunity to handle the situation. CO Admin has diminished their authority by bypassing them. If I were in their shoes, I would feel quite insulted and indignant.

regarding forum negativity.... YOU SAID IT! mentioning my name as one you are looking forward to meeting: I am honored! (bowing)

Yes, they were banned regardless of what you have read. The finds in many cases were on approved caches that were active and were done in a way that was previously acceptable to Groundspeak if not explicitly then at the very least by not playing cache cops. Some were even told to log finds in that manner by Groundspeak e.g. WGA temporary event caches. (I won't argue the merits of individual caches or finds. Some were obvious skirts of the guidelines, others were legitimate caches that were AND STILL ARE within the guidelines - they were all treated the same - poorly) Some interpret the guidelines very narrowly, some with more freedom for the players - both hiders and finders. What I see as the big issue here is that those with the narrow view are treating the other end of the spectrum with hate and derision by calling them liars and cheats when the reality is nothing like that except in the rare, odd instance. I have always been taught by those far wiser than I that a proper and respectful argument never degenerates into name calling. Which is why you will not see me sink to that level. Just because someone says that a find or hide "do(es) not meet the guidelines" neither tells the whole story nor mean it is true.

Snoogans you are a man after my own heart.... I don't have you beat in your "un-posted finds" ratio but I have upped you in the numbers.... I have around 300 caches I have yet to log going back about 3 or 4 months. I definitely WILL log them because it allows me to re-live my caching times. For those who will check.... not every one of my logs is unique. I have been known to cut and paste when my feeble brain fails to recall anything outstanding about a cache. On the other hand, I am a very slow writer hence the backlog. Does that make me a cheater too? On several occasions, a cacher has gotten angry with me because of my slowness to post.... does the fact that someone doesn't like that aspect of my caching experience make me a cheater or a liar too? just checking.....

You used your cache page for a second cache which was not approved by GC and used it for logging of bogus finds in TX at GW4. It is physically impossible to be at 2 places at once, at least to the best of my knowledge, so how can people be logging it in TX when the posted coordinates were in FL? You purposely circumvented the GC guidlines to do whatever you wanted. You broke the rules and now your cache has been archieved, correctly so. Call it what you want, but GC was right on this one. Why is it so hard for you (general you not just you buy everyone eklse who thinks their cache was archieved erroneously) people understand something so simple as "break the rules, cache gets archieved". Fun doesn't mean it is right. I used to drive fast with my friends and car surf down the highway. It was a lot of fun actually, but just because it was fun for the few of us doing it, it doesn't make it right. You have missed the point of my post. I was neither agreeing nor disagreeing with gc.com archiving my cache. I was trying to get the point across that FUN was the purpose for what I did - not number inflation and certainly not to disregard the guidelines. The fun of this cache is finding the log. Ask someone who found it - they'll tell you it's a hoot and I have pictures to prove it. [joke]Some of these pictures will remain locked in my lawyer's safe with instructions to disseminate said pictures in the event I am banned from gc.com....... [/joke] Before listing this cache, I understood the issue of moving caches was not an arbitrary decision but was motivated by the desire to make sure that a cache was always at the listed coordinates. The cache page is the same as it was when approved except maybe the addition of a joke or two. I did not "convert" an existing or archived cache into a moving cache. The cache page clearly said that I may move the container from time to time. Me and the approver were under the impression that the way we did this was within the guidelines. Neither of us would knowingly violate the guidelines. Note: I am not pleading ignorance of the guidelines! The guidelines say a cache whose goal is to move or is temporary i.e. for an event will not be approved. This cache was neither. I respect the wishes of Jeremy on this issue so will not allow further logs of this type when I re-list this cache. So that everyone knows what I am talking about in this case, I placed a 35mm micro in place of the large container at the posted coordinates so that a finder would be able to find a cache at the listed coordinates. Unfortunately, in my excitement and haste to attend GW4, I neglected to post a note to that effect. Because of my failure, one geocacher failed in his attempt to find it in Florida while the large container was in Texas. For this faux pas, I sent an apology to said cacher. He was quite understaning and expressed his regrets over the cache being archived. (Note: there was no rant against gc.com in my email to him - ask him if you don't believe me) In closing, I did not "circumvent the rules", neither did I "break the rules". It appears I misinterpreted the guidelines. According to what I read and especially when read in their entirety, the guidelines tell me my cache was OK. Jeremy's statement makes clear his interpretation so I will abide by it. Addressed to all: There was no need for all of this drama. A simple clarification of the guidelines or maybe the addition of a rule would've been the best solution. Local approvers could've been contacted and then THEY could've done the archiving or allowed the hider to do it on his own. All of this name calling and hateful talk has done nothing but cause bad feelings and division amongst the geocaching community. I would hope that all would share my desire for a happy and harmonious forum. I am not suggesting that disagreements will not arise but calling people cheats and liars will never get the person you are disagreeing with to come to your way of thinking. Of course, I am assuming that is what you want......

Wow! Here's a cool fact..... I participated in/with more than 50% of the things people mentioned in the previous posts. Excellent!

Four things stick in my mind (at THIS moment) 1. Enjoying that leisurely stroll that Fishing Fools talked about. It was GREAT! 2. Acting like high school kids at the camp ground after GW4 which lead into the 4:30am blabfest at Snoogansville... yes, I was there to the very end. 3. Finding my new favorite travel bug. Yeah... that's the one. 4. Standing on 3 states on the way home. As Clan Barron said "Yes, Oklahoma and Arkansas ARE on the way home from TX to FL!" There are many more great memories but too many to list. This is just what popped into my head at this ridiculous hour. Jim

There's a bookmark list with over 150 already, most having been archieved already and hopefully the rest will be soon. If you really think there are only 9 pocket caches out there pretending to be real approved caches, then you need to stop believing everything you read on the internet. The cache of mine that was archived was certainly not a pocket cache! Now that I think about it..... even if it fit, you REALLY wouldn't want my (now archived) cache in your pocket. It was done for the fun of it. I never heard a negative comment from anyone who saw the comtainer. I saw plenty of smiles and shared many a belly laugh with it's finders. There was no deceit in the cache page. If you read the logs and my logging requirements you would see that this cache was all about FUN. Yeah.... I guess you could say it was "all about the numbers". I bet all of the finders would agree it was the laughs and not the smileys that were the most important numbers for this (now archived) cache. As a side note, there were MANY people who enjoyed this cache without logging it if that makes any of you feel better. Some may say this could've been just as funny without it being a cache..... 'taint so! Ask anyone who found it!

Since no one else saw fit to call you out, I have. Your threats are not welcome here. Report sent to gc.com moderator. Now I will wait to see if any action is taken.

Ahh, come on back. I just HAVE to know why you think discussing how someone may be cheating on a score and trying to rationalize it isn't relates to my not accepting responsibility for my actions. Then maybe you can explain to me how this thread isn't openly and frankly discussing a disagreement. Frankly, your entire post is contradictory and makes little sense. It's also probably the only abusive post in this thread. Let me guess, you work for a public school, don't you? That might explain your apparent views on cheating. I guess you missed the following post? It's almost comical to me how you can overlook an obviously abusive (and violent) post (e.g. below) and still find fault with the above. I guess it's just tunnel vision..... or merely hypocrisy. If my jab strikes a nerve, instead of a knee jerk reaction to ME - how about addressing the following truly abusive post. Threats of physical violence are not funny and this one didn't even seem to be a joke.

As seen on a billboard ad.... There's room for all of God's creatures...... right next to the mashed potatoes.

One of the best non-lethal defenseive weapons you can have is a Surefire (or similar) flashlight. I have a Z2 which puts out 65 lumens - more than enough to temporarily blind and disorient an attacker while leaving no permanent damage and best of all - NO EVIDENCE! If you're feeling a bit more froggy - Surefire has models which put out 110 lumens (and even more powerful models) that can cause permanent damage. Check out this link for some examples of light being used for defense from both man and beast.

There once was a 5 difficulty cache that I had the pleasure to be MEFF on. I had logged a DNF on it as had several others so there was a good deal of interest and excitement over this cache. I finally found it at about 3am and promptly went home and went to bed as I had toget up and go to work like (almost) every other cacher around here. I got up and didn't have time to properly log the cache so off to work I went. Early that evening while heading home from work I received a rather irate call from a local cacher who was SOOOOO excited thinking he was first only to find one of my signature paint brushes in the cache. oops! Same thing has happened to me but it doesn't bother me a bit. Se le vie.

Here's a flashlight for a REAL MAN! It puts out 15 million candlepower, uses a lead-acid 12V battery, recharges in my Jeep, and cost $30 at Costco. The best thing about it is the Ooohs and Aaahs you get at a night event cache! I have named it "El Ridiculoso" for it's obvious ridiculousness. While on the aforementioned night cache, I kept it off until the group had trouble finding the next reflector. At that point I would pull the trigger on this beast and we could see at least the next 2 reflectors - sometimes 3. Kinda took the fun out of a night hunt...... NOT! It was great fun unless you looked into the beam. This cache log will give you an idea of how bright it is. I also have a SureFire Z2 Combat light for my light work and umpteen dozen EverReady/Maglite/Geo-Junk flashlights that are gathering dust. Here's the funny part, many of the locals call me a vampire cacher because of my penchant for caching at night (including "in the woods" hikes) without a light. Hint for wannabe vampire cachers: your GPS and/or cellphone backlight can sometimes be used to cheat when at ground zero. It's all or nothing for me....... I don't like the middle of the road.

I wou; like to ad my apologis along with Bambi and Thumper for jumping from110 to 83 last night.

I think it appropriate to let Texas answer that!

Perhaps it would be better if any group that wanted their interest known posted it themselves. Agreed! We need not turn this into a "I want this group instead of that group" thread.

I disagree. GeoWoodstock should go to ANY group that wants it and can pull it off. With the blessings of those with the say so, it should go ANYwhere. That is your right and I will beat you to death to defend your right to do so. (thats not quite right but it goes something like that) ROFLMAO!

ahhhhh Grasshopper! You have snatched the pebble from my hand! But some just don't get it..... do they?

If you read the cache log attached to Wimsey's post you will know THAT I KNOW they are pretty darn efficient about that!