RGK

It is troubling that I have to defend the highly flawed Colorado: But the limey with the CO was clueless. It appears that he was trying to use the compass mode; it you don't calibrate the dadgum thing and hold it absolutely horizontal the compass will point just about anywhere! Of course, if Garmin had seen fit to use a 3-axis compass on the overpriced 300 (Magellan managed to do this right), the clueless one would have had to find a different way to get lost.

End of Battery life for the CO family is very simple: when the battery drops below a specific voltage the CO declares them 'dead' and shuts itself off. The complexity is in how different battery output voltages behave with respect to many variables, i.e., battery chemistry, state-of charge (SoC), age, time since last recharge, method of recharge, temperature, battery load current, past specific battery history, etc. But in the end the CO can only monitor battery voltage and when it falls below an immutable value those batteries are no longer usable [to that CO]. So, why do alkalines last longer than rechargables in a 60CSx? It's because alkalines have more energy than rechargables and the 60CSX has much better internal electronics which can get at that energy over a wider range of battery voltages than the CO. Those "dead" alkalines from your CO aren't dead at all, they're just dead to the CO. Try putting those supposedly dead alkalines into an LED flashlight, they will work fine and for a long time. I have a whole bag of half-used alkalines from my CO which I use for other battery operated devices. Why do certain rechargables and lithium expendables work longer in a CO? It's because they [generally] deliver their energy at a higher voltage and the CO can therefore get at access to that energy. In the case of lithium expendables: they start out with more inherent energy and a higher terminal voltage vs SoC so you win twice with them -- if you can stand the price. Contrary to their previous handheld designs which operate at a lower internal battery voltage and at much higher external input voltages (up to 40 volts on earlier models), Garmin has cheaped-out on the CO. They have saved a few cents on the power converter circuit and saddled users with a product having a very limited input voltage range. It hurts the consumer on internal battery life efficiency at the low end and on external source flexibility at the other end. Have you noticed the high price of the CO automobile adapter? That is because the 12-14 volt car battery voltage has to be knocked down to something the inadequate CO internal power supply can handle. The auto adapters for earlier models only had to match a cigarette lighter plug to the oddball Garmin plug. This bad feature is yet another reason that I do not recommend the CO to my backpacking and hiking friends/students. Perhaps its handful of new goodies outweigh its many missing features and render it tolerable to Geocachers, but the 60CSx/Vista family is a better match to the needs of outdoors folks. This latter comment is not intended to irritate Geocachers, I am simply not one of that set and have no understanding of their preferences.

Welcome to the world of Colorado----all of those great features you remember from the great Vista/60csx family are gone. The Colorado screen display is drop dead gorgeous---and that's about it for any positives. This /snip sorry about the double post, the browser said that my message was rejected, apparently it wasn't......

Welcome to the world of Colorado----all of those great features you remember from the great Vista/60csx family are gone. The Colorado screen display is drop dead gorgeous---and that's about it for any positives. This all could have been avoided with some beta testing by experienced users. Maybe the Colorado is OK for ‘cachers but it sucks on the trail. I've used it on 2 Sierra backpacks, an Appalachian Trail backpack, and a Mojave Desert 4WD trip; I hate it a bit more each time I use it and find another feature missing. The GUI navigation is atrocious, inconsistent, and unintuitive; it crashes regularly requiring battery removal to reset-this is especially fun when the caribiner clip is attached; battery life is short with NiMH and really short with alkalines; backlighting is required on any but the brightest of days; try to archive a 5 mile piece of hike from the middle a 500mile tracklog; and the list goes on. Sometimes I think this dog was designed by the Microsoft Vista team rather than the Garmin Vista team. I teach GPS classes and am a frequent visitor to the local REI store, have steered many potential victims away from this unit--to the consternation of store management--but friends don't let fellow hikers make this mistake! I haven't been able to evaluate the Oregon model but I suspect that it is a lot more like a Colorado than the Vista/60C (x) family

Welcome to the world of Colorado----all of those great features you remember from the Vista/60csx family are gone. The Colorado screen display is drop dead gorgeous---and that's about it for any positives. This all could have been avoided with some beta testing by experienced users. Maybe the Colorado is OK for cachers but it sucks on the trail. I've used it on 2 Sierra backpacks, an Appalachian Trail backpack, and a Mojave Desert 4WD trip; I hate it a bit more each time I use it and find another feature missing. The GUI navigation is atrocious, inconsistent, and unintuitive; it crashes regularly requiring battery removal to reset-this is especially fun when the caribiner clip is attached; battery life is short with NiMH and really short with alkalines; backlighting is required on any but the brightest of days; try to archive a 5 mile piece of hike from the middle a 500mile tracklog; and the list goes on. Sometimes I think this dog was designed by the Microsoft Vista team rather than the Garmin Vista team. I teach GPS classes and am a frequent visitor to the local REI store, have steered many potential victims away from this unit--to the consternation of store management--but friends don't let fellow hikers make this mistake! I haven't been able to evaluate the Oregon model but I suspect that it is a lot more like a Colorado than the Vista/60C (x) family

It is yet another 'nice' 60CS feature that didn't quite make it to the colorado

The 60C family allows a waypoint to be repositioned by 'dragging' it to a new location, such as the true trail intersection as noted on one's track log. The CO will allow one to reposition a waypoint (via an arcane series of button pushes) to one's current location. This is an improvement over earlier CO versions which required repositioning by entering an new lat/long, i.e., determine the new lat/long/altitude by multiple button pushes then record using paper + pencil then more button pushes to get to the waypoint page then some tedious rock 'n roller action and a fair amount of time, the waypoint is finally redefined at a new location. The other option is to mark a new waypoint, assign an interim name (more tedium on the wheel), delete the old waypoint, rename the new waypoint to the old waypoint's name (more wheel tedium).....kinda like the way it was 15 years ago. Beta testing the CO with seasoned trail users (before inflicting it on the public) would have revealed this shortcoming when it was cheap to fix. Does this sound like American carmaker behavior: let the new owner do beta testing, we'll fix it next year; let the new owner do post-delivery quality checks, he is highly motivated to find problems...and better yet, some owners aren't that fussy and we won't have to fix the problem at all; think of the money we'll save! This same discussion applies to scrolling away from current position on the map page: the 60C family provides cursor position + distance + bearing from current position. This is missing from the CO too, the bandaid fix in 2.4? is to push the enter button and get STATIC lat/long/dist but no bearing. But the CO screen is gorgeous and the elevation profile display is improved over the 60C family. However, it takes more than a pretty face.....................

Well, once again they were unclear on the concept. It is seldom that I have the luxury to update a position when I am exactly at new desired physical location. What was wrong with the 60CS method for relocating a Waypoint? What is so hard about duplicating an existing function? And, yes, as a matter of fact, I do want this thing to morph into a 60CSx on steroids. The 60 family is loaded with well-designed features. They have 'fixed' many features that that were not broken. As long as I have the floor: battery life is better but not all that it could be. I put 'dead' batteries rejected by my CO into a 60CS-----the batteries show 3 bars on the older unit!! Only reason that I can see for this wastage on the CO is that Garmin saved some money on its CO power management circuitry.

Shortly after sending this complaint, a replacement CO arrived on my porch. It was 4 weeks to the day after I had sent it in for repair. A quick check of battery life shows that it still shuts down at a relatively high battery voltage, there is a lot of energy left in those 'dead' batteries. SO I am skeptical that battery life has been fixed. Will do a more comprehensive test before sending it back for a refund.

If they simply abandon the CO and bring out a new model---would anyone even buy it considering the black eye that Garmin now bears?? Even early adopters are smarter than that. Fool me once................ This would be a good time for Magellan to bring out a killer model. BTW, an hour after I sent my previous squawk about Garmin CO repair service (been 4 weeks without my CO and no feedback from service department), a new CO arrived on my front porch. I did an immediate battery life test with previously used batteries---the thing shut down at 2.56 volts! this means that the CO is still rejecting batteries with lots of remaining energy. This is a bad sign-- battery life is not likely to be any better than before. Looks like it will be going back to the dealer for a refund. Anybody want some full size SD cards?

Yours is a universal comment: we all suffer from 60CS(x) feature envy and short battery life. Waypoint search features are sorely missing from the CO. The wheel is an abomination for entering data, it makes the 60CS scoreboard method look good. Be prepared for a long wait if you send it back! They have had mine for 4 weeks(versus the 10 day promise) and haven't had the courtesy to send me an explanation or a revised ETA. It appears that they are overwhelmed with CO problems and they are waiting for redesigned units from China. If I ever get mine back--I will check for batt life and some of the missing 60CS features in the replacement, if not satisfactory, it's going back to the dealer. In the meantime I can't recommend the CO to anyone. I teach a GPS trail user class and have steered my students away from this dog. I have warned the local REI store of its shortcomings. We are at least 6 months, if ever, away from a trail-ready device; maybe it's useful for someone's applications but none of mine! I wonder if this thing was designed by the Microsoft Vista team instead of the Garmin Vista team??

Yes, the barometric altimeter is of no use when you are in a pressurised aircraft, apart from telling you the equivalent cabin altitude air pressure. (I assume the major airlines are not using Garmin consumer hand-held hiking / geocaching GPSrs for their aircraft navigations systems! ) However, I have NEVER seen an error with the barometric altimeter cause any accuracy whatsoever with the latitude / longitude fix. As far as I know, the barometric altimeter is NOT an input into the location fix. Quite the reverse - the 3D GPS location fix is used as an input to the altimeter auto-calibrate routine. Translated to Aussie-talk to accommodate the replier : Have you ever actually had your unit on a pressurised aircraft? If so, a review of track logs would show you that as the a/c moves from sea level to cruising altitude the recorded position takes big jumps as true altitude moves away from (or toward) cabin pressure altitude. This is prima facie evidence that Garmin are forcing baro altitude into the position solution. It is not possible for a civilian a/c to change position at the recorded rates without shedding its wings! Besides that, basic aerodynamics would require high-g banking to change position at the recorded rates, I would have noticed such a manoeuver. The fact that the unit can compute and display GPS-derived altitude makes it all the more maddening, the capability is there and Garmin stubbornly deny us the option to use it. BTW, I remain absent my 300, sent it to Garmin over a month ago, I was promised a 10 day turn around, it is now 4 weeks and no 300, they haven't even had to courtesy to email an excuse or ETA, 2 requests to their product support group have gone unanswered. I'm stacking on a blue of monumental proportions.

The barometric vs. GPS altitude has been a thorn since the 60CS first came out. I have sent multiple emails to Garmin on this topic, the only result has been to add a clumsy static display on the Satellite page. The forced barometric altitude use is especially troublesome when hiking near mountain tops, saddles, high winds in mountains, during rapid weather changes, and when in a pressurized aircraft. In each of these cases where the barometer-derived altitude is used for position solution, the lat/long solution can be severely in error; I've seen it miss by miles when in a pressurized a/c. How hard can it be to give us the option to select which altitude to use? I am (was) a Garmin Colorado victim, I've had it for 2 months, had about a week's worth of marginal use in that period, it is now in the Garmin Hospital with an ETA of 6 weeks after I had sent it to them. But that is another story. The CO has the same idiotic altitude policy as its (alleged) predecessors; but I can trick it into recording GPS altitude on track logs. My CO failed before I could get enough data to determine whether it used GPS altitude for lat/long computation, my suspicion is that it doesn't. The trick is to go to: Shortcuts>Setup>Altimeter>Barometer Mode>Fixed Elevation. This forces a recorded GPS altitude on the bloated .gpx log file. At least the recorded value seems to be close to GPS altitude. There may be some other side effects that I would have discovered if the thing hadn't failed. Anybody want to trade a new 60CSx + $150 for a Colorado 300 + some 2GB SD cards? A recovering Garmin Early-Adopter

I am a long time Garmin owner and had been the beneficiary of their up to now great products and service. I teach a GPS outdoor user class and have previously recommended their products. This all changed when early-adopter me bought a CO 300 (s/n=yours-8) Mine has had every problem seen in the Groundspeak blogs, including 60CS feature envy, battery life, freezes, lack of useful manual, sticky wheel, clock loss, 90 second boot-ups, lack of Mac support, clumsy GUI, wheel spell,...........Allegedly some of these were fixed with v2.4 firmware, but mine quit completely before I could evaluate. Two and a half weeks ago I sent my failed CO back to Garmin—I’m still waiting. When issuing the RMA they said it would be 10 days for turnaround. Called them yesterday–a very conciliatory young lady informed me that replacement units are on backorder and it will be mid-April before a working CO shipment is available. I then requested my money back–no can do–was told to see the dealer for a refund–but Garmin has my hardware! I checked with web dealers and find that new units are in stock ready to ship– this means that Warranty victims are relegated to the back of the line! They have had my $$ for over 2 months, I have had (marginal) use of the unit for about a week. It will be another month before having another shot at usage. I have a major outing coming up next week and I am out of luck. Maybe the new shipment will have units with corrected hardware? It's hard to imagine that s/w can fix what I have seen. So maybe the wait will be worth it. This dog is clearly not ready for prime time, I haven't seen such a torrent of negative blogs on a new product since Vista, but then no one expected much from microsoft. It appears that Garmin's service department is overwhelmed with the aftermath. I hope that some marketing/sales VPs get canned for overriding the engineering VP. Maybe Garmin has learned a lesson about releasing a product without doing a bit of beta testing; any serious user would have found many of these problems in a day (I did). You are only as good as your last product.........but Garmin now has a wary public who will no longer be willing to buy on reputation, I hope they can recover from this black eye.