twjolson & Kay

What I use to do (before I started using my PDA for the hints, which I carried anyways) is go out, try and find it with no hint. Then if I couldn't find it, I logged it as a DNF, then I would look at the hint, and if need be, look at spoiler pictures and log entries. Barring that, you could use a PDA as I do, or you could use a Cell and call someone to give you the hint. For example, if the little miss stays home while you go caching.

briansnat: I personally have never seen anyone doing any of those things at a graveyard, ever. And while that is just my observation none of those things require rummaging around and disturbing the area. (I am assuming a normal cache hidden). And all the ones I've ever seen do not lend themselves to those activites. As well, they are usually crowded, and the amount of paths are either nonexistant or few. I have nothing against geocaching in cemeteries, but let's just skip the normal kinds and stick to virtual. Why give our opponents more ammo? Why offend those families that don't share your viewpoint. That's their loved one, not yours. My point is that not hiding caches in graveyards is the safe road, one that won't hurt us. If we do hide caches in them, then things like SC are going to start cropping up all over the counry or even the world. It's just not worth it when we have so many other places to hide them.

Where did you get this, and do they have world stats?

Ummm, maybe for you. Even the main sponsor of H3777 concedes that cemeteries have been used in the past much like parks. A place for the families to gather, have a picnic, celebrate life and the lives of those that have gone before. First off, about the SC thing, if the main sponser truly believed that cemeteries use to be the same as a park, why would they be trying to pass a bill that outlaws something like Geocaching? They are hypocrites. And second, yea, that's my opinion, this is a post asking for opinions. And while I'll admit that I take an extreme viewpoint; I do believe that most share it to a smaller degree. The key word in your post is "Past". Graveyards aren't places of recreation anymore. Things have changed. Now they are a place to visit loved ones, not play. They are a place to learn about the past, not trade trinkets. I have no problem with geocaching in a cemetery, as long as it's vitrual caches and you walk away learning something. But my I just can't justify walking all over someones grave just for a game. Bottom Line: I believe keeping regular caches out of cemeteries is a good thing. First off out of respect for the dead. Even if your opinion differs from mine, you do not know what that person would have wanted, nor what their family would want. Second, the whole SC thing should teach us a lesson. Why should we give them ammo to restrict our sport? A cache in a graveyard isn't worth it if it costs us other places to cache as well.

I don't want to get into a big long thing, but if the author of the SC bill really believed that graveyards were a place like a park in the past, they wouldn't be pushing to outlaw something like Geocaching now would they. The key word in your sentance is "past", they may have been the same as a city park in the past, but nowdays they are quite differant. And while I will admit that not everyone shares the opinion that graveyards should be places or reflection and respect, not playgrounds, I do believe that most share that belief to some degree.

For normal caches, absolutely not! A cemetery is a place of respect and reflection, not trading toys. (I mean this as caches within the cemetary limits, not, say, in the woods near a graveyard, although if it meant walking through I doubt I would do a cache like that) If that was my grave, or a family memebers grave I wouldn't want people tramping through just for 3 dollar trinkets. The only cache I would approve is one that's historical/educational. Something that shows you the life and times of a person.

We were out in a city park by the river, within the city, but the park was secluded. When you are in it you feel like you are in the middle of no where. Less then 100 feet from the cache was a purse hanging on a downed tree, with all kinds of make-up trashed on the ground, a "My Son" beaded keychain. It was odd, and when we looked closer we also an empty condom wrapper. It was an odd scene, but there wasn't much we could say or do about it. We chalked it up to some childish fun, a kid stealing mommies purse and make-up. A few days later, the news reports two bodies being found by the river, both where kids. We then reported the purse to the police, which they told us to bring it in. When we went back to get it, it was gone, all of it. We still chalk it up to kids playing, or something else innocent, but we'll always wonder.

One of my other hobbies is Miniature painting. We do the same thing, we paint up a mini and ship it. From that, I would suggest GC making a special forum to help those willing to exchange to hook up. An even better idea, although more time and money intensive is for someone, if not GC, to come up with a website. People would register, put thier locations, where they want to send thier caches, etc. and the scripts would send out emails when a match is found.

That's what I was trying to say! If you follow everything to it's logical conclusion one of a few things will happen. One: You won't be able to find him, the anger continues until you find another outlet Two: You find him and confront him like a civilized person. He blows you off and nothing is solved. Three: You find him and beat him to within an inch of his life. Anger solved and you are no better then him. For those who are for starting a way to stop this kind of behavior, however voluentary "Creeds" are meaningless for idiots like this. And even if GC steps in, I don't imagine they can do much more then make all caches members only caches. I don't expect that they will, and I don't expect that will eliminate the problem, reduce, but not eliminate. I've seen other hobbies of mine that people pay just to be a-holes. Nothing I've heard on here so far will do anything to stop this behavior, or even stem the tide. I'm all for eliminating this pain in the butt problem, but honestly I don't see any real solutions. Not without excluding people from geocaching or having someone guarding all the caches. Bottom line is this, we put this stuff out there, we hunt for it, but none of it is forever. Eventually a jerk will come along and ruin it or steal it. If you spend 500 bucks on a cache, enjoy it, have fun, but don't expect it to last forever. You can't put a cache out there and expect it to last forever. Rather then quit because of that lost money, I would rather enjoy it while it lasts. And if 500 is more then you are willing to spend on something that's temporary, don't spend so much! Now let's drop this BS, quit giving this moron everything he is looking for and let's enjoy our game rather then continuing to let jerks like him ruin it.

If the log is still unreadable after an online translator mangles it. You could always email the poster. Just because they post in, say german, doesn't mean they don't speak english. I've traveld some overseas, and most countries teach english as the second language. And those that have learned some english enjoy the chance to practice thier english. It's not a sure thing, but it's worth trying.

That's what I'm saying. Even IF, and that's a fairly sizable if, we could find this guy. So what, I would venture to guess that no law enforcment agency would arrest or charge him. (It might be that any travel bug is considered abandoned and not the property of anyone once you leave it, BUT I could be wrong I am no lawyer or cop) I can understand being upset, I would be sad when my bugs get stolen, whether by this guy or some faceless punk. But lets face it the facts, odds are they are gone permanetly. And all travel bugs and caches eventually get lost or stolen, it's going to happen. And IF we could find him there isn't much we could do. And in the time we did spend trying to find him, be it hours or days, they could be spent doing fun things like geocaching! The only way a punk like this is going to ruin geocaching is if you let him. Pine and moan if you want over the lost, but I'd rather enjoy the caches that are out there, and the bugs that are still traveling then to mourn the lost.

The thing is, this is the game. We put caches out, or travel bugs out and we know they aren't forever. Whether it's a random jogger, camper, or an idiot cacher, it's going to happen that they disappear. Same with travel bugs, they will only go so far. Yea, it's cool to see caches last for years and years, and bugs go for miles and miles, but they don't. And getting your feathers ruffled and all angry is pointless. It's going to happen, don't let it ruin your fun. Stealing junk isn't exactly "fun", it's a short term thrill. He may steal bugs for now, but he'll go off to do something more fun later. Stealing worthless stuff from strangers you'll hardly meet doesn't exactly give huge thrills. And the thing that will determine how long he does this is how long we continue to pine and whine over it. He's an idiot, he took the stuff, big deal, get over it and go cache!! Don't let someone else ruin your fun.

Did you pick that up in BC, or where away from home?

For me, it doesn't really matter what I find in a cache as usually I just end up putting it in the very next cache. I usually take the "coolest" thing that I find in a cache, but drop it off at the next cache. I do take sometimes, only if it's something I truly want and only if I trade an item of comparable value or worth. Once I found a Leatherman type pocketknife that I would have loved to keep, but all I had were 1 dollar stickers. I thought it unfair for me to keep it, so I just dropped it off at the next cache. Wierd, but the way I feel.

Can we make it find the caches for us too?

Thank you

On the travel bug search page, where it shows where your travel bugs are, it lists who or where they are with an icon next to the name. Some of the icons are green, but some are grey. Why?

If you go to model railroad shops, they have things like Realistic water and EZ Water (I might have the names wrong) They are worth looking into, but I am unsure at how rugged it will be. I think it would hold edges (like wave crests) better then sculpey.

bamagriffingang hit it right on the nose, geocaching is for the hunt, not the prize. If you are out in the wild to just get a trinket you are wasting your time. You may not like what's in the cache, but if it bothers you too much, geocaching probably isn't for you. (I am not singling out anyone with this statement) Personally, we put out junk like old toys because we'd rather get rid of it then let it collect dust. And you never know who will find the cache next. That dusty old ninja turtle might be garbage to you, but to the next family it's a free cool toy. No matter what you put in, odds are that someone, eventually, will want it. You could make someone's day with something as simple as a golf ball! Plus, little plastic frogs aren't all bad. We found on in a cache and made it our geocaching mascot. He's Atomik, the B**** Slapping Frog with Attitude! We take him everywhere and take pictures at nearly every cache or anywhere a interesting picture oppurtunity shows itself. Rant finished.

Oh wow that is evil, especially if you list it as a micro film container in the text

To clarify my side of things a little, I am not for outlawing using GPS in a graveyard, there are legit uses of it that don't involve caching. If I could pass my own bill, it would make hiding (and hopefully that would stop people from seeking, kill it at the source) illegal. I agree that the present bill goes way to far to the point of stupidity, but the basic idea (stop caching in graveyards, etc) isn't all that bad either. They just need to write a bill that isn't so extreme. I apologize if I did not speak clearer. There is a differance between "maintenance" and playing a game. Disrupting graves for a game is not worth it, keeping the sprinklers working is. Same with the kids looking at the differant stones. I've stopped at others graves and wondered who they are, what they did, etc. Again, there is a differance between doing that and playing a game.

I've been wondering about Edmonton area geocachers for a month now, and sure enough I found about them the DAY AFTER they get together with food!!! Sucks to be me.

Another good tactic is using camo duct tape, or a camo bag. i've found one of the latter and if you weren't REALLY looking at it, you could have totally missed it. Same with the duct tape.

There are public cemeteries and there are private cemeteries. If a cemetery is private, such as one owned by church for instance, then the rule about getting permission before placing a cache on private property applies. If a cemetery is public then it's a matter of selectively banning some public areas to some members of the public for a certain activity which is not in any way illegal. I have my own feelings about caching in cemeteries, but regardless of that there is no call in my mind to put in place a new law that singles us out for no good reason at all. You have your own opinion, and I respect that. Publc or private though, out of respect for the dead I don't think caches should be hidden on ANY cemetery. Near or on the egde, but not in. Cemeteries are for visiting loved ones long gone, not finding trinkets left there by someone else. Those graves aren't just land or monuments, those are peoples loved ones. They have sons and daughters and more that love them and want them respected. Alot of you would be angry if someone trampled all over your mother or fathers grave, or tipped over the tombstone just so they could find a cache and a little 2 dollar trinket! And I don't believe it to be singling us out. Anyone in a graveyard that is there doing something that disrupts the graves at the worst be arrested and at best they can be told to move on. If I'm in the graveyard peeing on graves, that won't be tolerated. I am using a important and solemn place for something that dishonors it. That said, from the bits and pieces I gather from the message board, I think the bill will end up going to far, if it passes. Not hiding caches in graveyards is one thing, getting arrested because you have a GPS in a "historical" city is asinine. It's one thing to try and protect graves, digs and historical sites, but take it to the level of idiocy.

you might want to start at page 1 instead of 21 to understand whats going on down there. When they say achelogical sites or historic sites, from my understandings, and some you can gain from reading back further, is most of the entire town of Charleston is considered historic which would make this illegal in an entire town. Finding your local resturant while visiting from out of town would be illega if using GPS. Still agree?? I wouldn't support any bill that outlaws using GPS anywhere, as is what I'm hearing on here. I would only say this isn't a bad bill if they outlaw hiding caches in specific places. Whole towns is unfair, but historic buildings is fair. I think the whole notion of a whole town being historic is asinine anyways. Like I said, the devil will be in the detials. Too far one way and graves will be disrupted, to far the other way and perfectly innocent geocaching suffers. I'm just advocating a happy middle. People shoud not be allowed to hide caches in cemetaries, digs and historical sites, the definition of such things I think is where the differance in my opinion and others lie I believe.