VegasCacheHounds

Oh, I believe you, it all sounds like great fun. However, if it was all such fun, why do you need to log a bogus find to validate that fun? Isn't just the act of participating good enough? I don't believe anyone said "hey, stop having pocket caches", I think what was said was "Hey, stop logging finds on caches that are not legit." Wow VCH I'm agreeing with you twice in one day. You done good. Sickening, ain't it?

One of the best ways is to always make sure you trade up at the cache. And spend a few more minutes on your logs so that we can all be entertained a bit. oh, yes, as a cache owner I love getting a notification that there is a new log on one of my caches, expecially if it has a nice story to go with it. Luckily, I see few short logs on my caches, and am usually quite entertained reading what cachers thought. Plus, its always fun to read what others thought of a cache that I've found, I've learned as much about the locations where the cache is from the logs as I have from the descriptions themselves (such as "hey, I saw a nutria near GZ today" or an explanation as to just what the old building used to be from a old-timer local).

Oh, I believe you, it all sounds like great fun. However, if it was all such fun, why do you need to log a bogus find to validate that fun? Isn't just the act of participating good enough? I don't believe anyone said "hey, stop having pocket caches", I think what was said was "Hey, stop logging finds on caches that are not legit." Such a simple concept . . . Why can't these people grasp it? Simple....they've been blinded by their quest for numbers. Kidding, kidding...had to post something with a bit of a jab to it

I agree with what LaP said, expecially the part about placing Quality caches.

I'm betting that by asking this, you already know the answer, you're just hoping that someone will give you the justification to go against what your common sence is telling you. Anyways, I don't like that idea, but it doesn't seem to be much worse than the whole "Phone-a-friend" thing. My advice? Email the cache owner and ask for a hint directly, and tell the other cacher that if he wants to find MO cache, pay the $3/month, or have him ask that cache owner to drop the MO part (it might work, I've 'downgraded' one of my caches, partially due to a request from another cacher, but mostly due to wanting it to get some greater exposure).

To add to what I said and what Lep said, I've also been to events with temp caches, and I enjoyed them a lot, but I do not feel that my experience was in anyway cheapened by not being able to log them online.

Ya know, its sad that I have some logs on a few of my caches from a different team that found 200+ caches in a day, and instead of thinking "Wow, Cool, a few of my caches were part of a great day for them" I'm thinking "Gee, I better get out there and see if they really found the and signed the log book"

Oh, I believe you, it all sounds like great fun. However, if it was all such fun, why do you need to log a bogus find to validate that fun? Isn't just the act of participating good enough? I don't believe anyone said "hey, stop having pocket caches", I think what was said was "Hey, stop logging finds on caches that are not legit."

Jeremy, do you really think it is fair to call this play AFTER THE FACT? I agree that there were temp. caches at GW4 that probably would have been best left behind, but in my experience at Texas events, the temporary caches were brought and placed to showcase creative hides and concepts, and to give others a chance to see them when they might not otherwise have the chance. Several of my friends brought creative hides to GW4 that have been archived. They either have to find a new location and re-list them, or let them die for all time. I just can't see the sense in that. Some history: a certain retiree in Houston is a master at creative urban micro hides, nearly all wheel-chair accessible. Some are at great places, some are incredibly inventive containers, some are awe-inspiring camo. What damage is done if these creative hides are showcased at an event? I actually think he was a ''pioneer'' in the temporary cache thing, and people liked it so much, they copied it! I don't know if any of his hides were at GW4, but I would hate to think of any of them being archived. The majority of the caches brought to GW4 were hidden, coordinates were given, and people who logged them had to go find them to do it. A lot of miles of hiking were logged in that park to find them (not to mention the hiding), and for those who flew in to the event, it might have been their only chance to log caches. What I'm trying to say is, why give a blanket condemnation to this practice, when a set of guidelines could be established to keep it true to the game while still allowing it to occur? If it's limited only to the new genre ''mega-event'', then so be it. Temporary caches don't really seem appropriate for local events, anyway. Or if you see fit to ban it altogether, then so be it. But archiving caches and slamming the practice after ''the cows are out of the barn and into the hayfield'' seems to me to be counterproductive. We have a cacher in Austin who has done three of the most absolutely creative hides, based on scientific concepts/theorems, and he's working on more. Each is a learning experience as well as a cache. I had gained permission to take them to GW4, but ran out of time to pick them up. Now I suppose that cacher is very glad that I DID run out of time. Three of the best caches in Central Texas would have been archived, in spite of the fact that 700+ people would have been exposed to his creativity and might have taken his ideas back to their locales. Isn't there something wrong with that picture? Please, Jeremy, look at rescinding those archive orders and make any action you take a rule for future events. My friend, a new cacher (Dec. 05), took one of her creative hides; it's been archived. I would hate for her to be turned off to geocaching by this heavy-handed action. Thanks for listening! Happy Trails. I still have one question that I asked earlier.... If a cache is removed from its listed coordinates, how is it still active? Either it needs to be disabled, as its not availbe to be found, or its now a Moving Cache, which is against the guidelines and should be archived. I think it is great that some cachers wanted to showcase some of their caches, but me holding up an ammo can that I once used as a cache container does not mean the person I'm showing it to found the cache. I don't think anyone here has said that it is lame that cachers were showcasing their cool caches, just that people were logging finds on these as if they actually went out and found the cache.

Dang, that sounds like a good one! I'll have to hit that one the next time I'm back home, I know exactly which building that is.

Oh, you've done a survey of the entire geocaching community? I'd like to see your results, then. The few voices that post on the forums regularly don't constitute the "overwhelming majority" of cachers that make up the entire community of geocaching.com. From what I understand, pocket caches have been logged for years at events. Only now it's gone so far as to lock and archive caches? Feel free to have an opinion of whether or not they're right or wrong. But because YOU think it's wrong, does that mean I have to as well? Obviously not EVERYONE has a problem with it, as there have been lots of people that have logged pocket caches over the years. ‘Public opinion’ isn’t applicable. The site owners have decided what a geocache is, and pocket cachers do not fall within that definition. That I think it’s wrong doesn’t matter, they are not geocaches. By the same token, it doesn’t matter if you think they’re wrong either, they are still not geocaches. Just because the third baseman is a hockey fan doesn’t mean he can body-check the base runner, and if he got away with it several times he cannot say the rule had changed. Play by the rules, it’s really easy to do. If you feel strongly (and given your hostility you do) that they should count as finds, feel free to pick up a server and start your own site. Dude, your posts are always the most entertaining. It helps that I agree with what you have to say (generally), but the image of the thrid-baseman body checking a runner is priceless

I had driven by that area dozens of times and never knew it was there until that cache. BTW, that was the first cache I ever found, and still one of my all time favorites.

Hey, look at that, two votes for Creepy Cache. I don't know how that cache hasn't gotten Cache Of The Month over at NGA yet

My advise is to get out of Vegas and head out to Red Rock Canyon. Not only are there some amazing caches out there, but the entire experience is great. I imagine that a cacher could DNF every cache out there and still say that they had a great time just based on the location. Also, Valley of Fire is a great spot, not many caches but still well worth it. A few select caches that I recommend: SouthEast of Vegas, on the way out towards Hoover Dam: Creepy Cache. Disabled, but keep an eye on this one, if it happens to be up and running its a Must Do Cache: Las Vegas Amazing Cache (yes, that's its actual name) Quite the challange, but what a view (if you have a full day to kill): Mt Charleston Peak One on the edge of the valley out towards Lake Mead, short hike: March to the Arch Also, you might ask the folks over in the forums at www.NevadaGeocaching.com. They're usually quite helpful, all except that MooseMob guy, watch out for him

Wait a minute....you are on the side that says its okay to log cache finds for temp caches, right? So how is everyone but you stuck on numbers? If you are argueing that you should get credit for these caches that violate the guidelines, then you must care about numbers too. Honestly, I don't care about anyones numbers. What I do care about is people abusing the system. Do I care that they have false finds? No. Do I care that the more people log false stuff the more distorted the game becomes? Yes. I'm glad that everyone had fun at GW4. Fun is what it's about. So is Baseball, but if you start scoring runs for one team everytime a player touches a base, regardless where that base is, the whole game changes. My issue is not with the logged smiley's (I didn't log anything other than the event itself) it's with the fact that perfectly good caches are being archived for no feasible reason other than a few people are pissed because of a geographical issue and a count skew. Okay, I gotcha. So your all about numbers as much as I am Now, these caches that are being achived....why are they being archived again? From what I understand from the reading I've done, it seems to me that these caches that are being archived are the caches that have been removed from their listed location and brought to GW4 to be 'found' there. Is this correct? If I am right, then those caches are violating a handful of guidelines, and therefore deserve to be at least temporarily disabled until they are 'fixed', in otherwords returned to their listed coords. Call me crazy, but if I decide to pull one of my caches to show to a friend, that cache is no longer active until I return it to where it was listed at. If a cache can be removed from the listed coords and moved to wherever, doesn't that make it a moving cache, which are now against the guidelines?

Wait a minute....you are on the side that says its okay to log cache finds for temp caches, right? So how is everyone but you stuck on numbers? If you are argueing that you should get credit for these caches that violate the guidelines, then you must care about numbers too. Honestly, I don't care about anyones numbers. What I do care about is people abusing the system. Do I care that they have false finds? No. Do I care that the more people log false stuff the more distorted the game becomes? Yes. I'm glad that everyone had fun at GW4. Fun is what it's about. So is Baseball, but if you start scoring runs for one team everytime a player touches a base, regardless where that base is, the whole game changes.

I had a friend a while back that bragged about "having" 21 women for his 21st birthday. Didn't bother me or make him less of a friend. He just proved he was full of it. Still a good friend, just squirrely. So someone brags about their stats. So what? Is that anything to divide over? we're all squirrels in one way or another. Squirrels make good friends too. (as long as you don't try to get their nuts) Wow, I predict a heart attack on his 50th birthday

Down here in the North Dallas area there seems to be a slighty different problem. There are a few cachers that place a ton of caches, but aren't all on top of maintaining the ones that they've already placed. I propose a new twist to the "Needs Maintenance" logs....how about a 'block' on a cacher being able to submit a new cache until they clear up any exisitng cache's "Needs Mantenance" issues? Now, just for clarification, let me say that not all, not even the majority, of the prolific cache hiders down here are like this, just a few.

I attempted to find 30 caches on my 30th birthday, which was April 30th, but the final tally for the day was 18. I blame my lack of familiarity with my new toy, the Garmin IQue GPSr/PDA combo. I had put too much faith in its abilitiy to map all the caches in an area, but it didn't work as planned, so ittook me way more time to route around to different caches. I still could have gotten close if I hadn't dropped it, resetting the device and losing all the data in it. Oops. Now I know how to back it up properly. Now that I know what I'm doing with it, I think I might try again for the heck of it. I did find my 330th cache that day though.

I've got a cache where the container is the logbook, but thats a totally different story.

Awesome! Not that I haven't been happy with my new Garmin M5, but now I really don't regret buying it instead of a 60CSx

See, I told you someone would tell you that you forgot a lot of things V.II should be quite the tool if it accounts for all those.

Silly you! You had placed your cache within 528 feet of my existing cache at the Nevada Nuclear Test Site in Mercury, Nevada, and thus the reviewer was forced to disapprove your listing. My cache was in the sixteen foot high pile of radioactive plutonium waste from the breeder reactor; if you move your cache a bit further away from the glowing pile, you should be fine. (BTW, its just Nevada Test Site.)

Cool tool. Too bad I'm sure this thread will turn into a bunch of nitpicking of "You forgot this" and such, or people bemoaning the addition of more rules/tests/hoops/whatever.

So I've noticed a trend in this thread.....a lot of people that have found these have made comments to the effect of "... and then we went inside and ate" or such. So, the obvious question is: Are these Commercial Caches? (Sorry, gotta stir the pot sometimes)