dopoka

I use route created at home to navigate off-road all the time. When you are navigating along a route this allows you to get lots of important data like distance to destination, time to destination (at current moving average), and the elevation profile ahead. If you don't prepare a route to follow the trail ahead of time, the only thing you can get is a straight line route to your destination. This will make all your data totally irrelevant (unless the trail is completely straight to the destination). I usually go to the starting point of my route and then start navigating from there. I would make a second route to navigate to the start of the first route.

True they are expensive but it's all relative. In the sport of mountaineering one can easily spend $3000-$5000 just to fly half way around the world to get to the starting point for a trip. Not to mention another $4000-$5000 in gear you take with you. I even lug a satellite phone that costs me $100 per week on many adventures (to appease the wife). The GPS is just another valuable tool, so paying $15 for three sets of batteries is not that much in the big picture.

What type of life do you get out of the Sanyos? I do many three day climbing trips per year where I need as much as 40 hours of life in total (at temps between -30F to 30F). I have been averaging about 13 hours per set of lithiums so three sets will last a whole trip. Will the rechargeables even come close to this?

YES it still works fine with NiMH and Alkalines. The issues is that I regularly use it in temps from -20F to 20F while mountaineering and NiMH and alakalines won't even last an hour in those conditions. The Lithiums worked fine until this upgrade. I had this same problem with other units before and Garmin said this was because Lithium (FeS2) type batteries are 1.7V and maintain this voltage even under heavy load. Akalines are 1.5V under no load and dip down to 1.2V-1.3V under heavy loads. Garmin said that the higher voltage caused the unit to get an over voltage error during POST (Power On Self Test) and shut the unit down. They eventually fixed this problem and added a Lithium option in the setup.

I just upgraded my 400T to software version 3.70 and it will no longer power on with lithium batteries regardless of the battery setting. It just throws up the GARMIN splash screen and then powers off. I had this same problem with both my 60CSx and Colorado before they added support for lithium batteries. My Oregon actually had lithiums in it when I did the upgrade since I use it for climbing in the cold and had been working fine with them all winter. I know that the lithiums will probably work if I drain them a little, but I hate just wasting expensive battery power by draining them down to where they will work. Has anyone else seen this issue? Thanks

Anyone with a little knowledge, a map, and a compass can locate their position on a map within 50ft in ideal conditions. Unfortunately if visibility is poor, its dark, or there are no visible landmarks it can be impossible to locate your position using this method. I agree that for the purpose of finding your general position on a map an accuracy of 50ft is adequate. If you're less than 50ft from your car and you can't find it you're really in trouble. That being said I also agree that if I'm paying top dollar for a top of the line consumer GPS the accuracy should be improved or comparable to the previous models (60/76), not worse.

I am an ultralight backpacker and always carry lithiums on long trips. I have used them in a 60csx. You may need to partially drain the batteries before using them in the GPS because fresh lithiums put out more than 1.5V. If you use brand new lithiums in a 60csx you will experience an over voltage at power on where the startup screen will hang and then fade out as the unit powers off. This doesn't seem to hurt the unit, but it can take 15-20 power cycles to drain the batteries enough to get it to power on. Lithiums do not last 3 times as long as alkalines in my experience. I believe that claim is for digital cameras. Lithiums are very good at providing the large pulses of current needed by the CCD and flash units in digital cameras. A GPS does not draw these large pulses. That being said, they do seem to last about 1.5x - 2x as long as alkalines and maybe 3x as long as rechargeables. The other place they really shine is in the cold. I regularly use my GPS in sub-freezing conditions in the winter. Alkalines and rechargeables just can't provide the current at those temperatures. Lithiums only loose about 10% of their ability to provide current at low temperatures.

I'm not sure why others don't like it for backpacking. I had a 60csx and now a 400t. I use it 90% for hiking and backpacking. In my opinion the better maps and bigger screen make it much better than the 60csx. I use 2 alkaline AAs per day, but in a 60lb pack six or eight extra AA batteries is nothing. I don't have any of the problems others have had, or just don't pay close enough attention to them so that they bother me.

I generally try to conserve power as much as possible. No compass, WAAS, or track up, and i only use the backlight after dark (I don't have a problem seeing the screen in the day). I also leave it on the trip computer when I'm not looking at it so the processor doesn't have to work as hard updating the map, and there are less pixels changing on the screen. I use it mostly for mountaineering and hiking so I only check the map a couple times in an average day. I average 25-27 hours on lithiums and 18-20 hours with costco alkalines. I'll try some tests with all the power hungry options enabled to see if this will cause the problem on my unit.

You might also want to take note of the battery type when testing is done. I have not seen these types of location errors when using lithium or alkaline batteries even when using the backlight. I don't currently have any rechargeables to test (my last set were lost with my trusty 60csx). The lower voltage of the rechargeables might contribute to this issue. I plan to get some new rechargeables since its starting to warm up in the mountains and I wont need lithiums for the cold. I'll report back if I see any issues.

I believe Lithium refers to non-rechargeable Lithium batteries such as the Energizer E2 brand which are about 1.65-1.7V each.

I too only use my GPS for geocaching about 10% of the time. I use it primarily for hiking, mountaineering, driving, and some geocaching. I had a 60csx (which I lost climbing Mt Adams last winter), and I don't find that I miss anything on my 60csx. My 400t does everything my 60csx did. I have not had many of the problems that others have. My 400t has never locked up, the clock is always correct, I have tested it underwater for 10 minutes with no problem, have never had the position error problem, and the battery lasts about the same amount of time as my 60csx. Now maybe I just didn't use any of these features that others are missing from the 60csx, but I don't miss mine at all. The screen is bigger and I have had no problem seeing it in any light conditions if it is tilted correctly, the maps are better looking, the rocknroller is much better than the 60csx button, and of course the paperless caching is much better.

First off I am talking about the Energizer E2 type lithium, not rechargeables. I may be using my unit differently than most of the people on this board. I generally start it up at the beginning of a trip, put it on the trip computer, and never touch it again (except to look at the trip stats) until I turn it off. So I'm almost never using the backlight and not pressing any buttons (causing the processor to have to work harder). Also the trip computer changes a small percentage of pixels on the screen opposed to having to continually update the entire screen. I've also noticed that the lithiums preform better at lower temps. Most of my lithium use has been in the low twenties and high teens. I would expect everyone to have different battery life experiences since battery life is a function of the operation (backlight use + processor load + screen image + receiver amplifier + temperature + using a SD card + compass + pressure...etc) I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3x or 4x power difference based on use.

I'd like to repeat nicolo's question about trackback. I also had a 60CSX for many years and never used it. I hike and climb almost every weekend year round, and I have followed the track I made on the way in on the way out many times. This method is especially helpful when crossing glaciers because you can quickly (and safely) cross back out over a glacier without having to navigate crevasses for a second time. I just zoom way in and follow my track on the map. I'd also like to mention that I have had the Colorado since the day REI received them, and have been using it for serious backcountry trips including multi-day snow camping trips all winter long. I have never had any problems seeing the screen (sometime you do need to tilt it to relfect the light correctly). I have to use Lithium batteries in the extreme cold and I have averaged 20-27 hours on each set for about 12-15 sets. In warmer weather I have used alkaline batteries and average about 10-12 hours with those. Very comparable to my 60CSX. I use it primarily as a backup to paper maps, especially in severe weather where paper map navigation becomes impossible. It has never preformed any better or worse than my 60CSX for my usage.

The NAND Flash used in these cards are not considered extremely reliable. I design electronics and we use NAND Flash only to store data, but never use it to store Boot or OS code. If you look at the spec for most NAND flash the MTBF (Mean Time Between Failures) is actually surprisingly low. I'm not surprised you could see this type of failure on a two year old card. If you're interested, just Google "NAND flash reliability" and you'll find thousands of pages on this topic.

Is there a possibility that to conserve power the internal clock is only running when needed? For example if you have an alarm set, the unit keeps time while powered off to sound the alarm at the correct time. But if you don't have the alarm or pressure monitoring setup, then the unit doesn't run the real time clock? I'm not sure that the RTC can keep accurate enough time to decrease satellite acquisition time on startup. I've used RTC chips in my designs, and they are not extremely accurate.

I believe both are transreflective. If they weren't the amount of ambient light would not affect the display at all, and that is not the case. The issue here is that as you increase the density of pixels, there is less area for light to get through (or around) the TFTs once, reflect off the back, and pass back through the TFTs again.

I think that if you ask 20 different people about the screen you would get 20 different answers. Just like televisions, some people like LCD, some plasma, some DLP, etc.. It all depends on your expectations. I have had no problem reading my 400t screen in any conditions. I can see every detail fine with no backlight under bright sunlight. Of course I would like it to be brighter and have higher contrast, but I'd also like it to be 3ftx3ft, weigh nothing, and fold up to the size of a postage stamp. I guess I'll have to make do with the limitations of our current technology. My only question would be does anyone know about a better type of screen that could have been used? Seems like most mobile electronics today use the same type of screen as the Colorado.

"hate to add to the fray but Dopoka, you really should not come into geocaching forum and tell geocachers that their hobby is less than any other. When you have a few more than "One" find, granted it was a 3/3, you will find there are some grand adventures out there that would challenge ANY adventurer if they so choose. Look up a few 5/5 caches and tell me they are just "a fun game in the outdoors" you will have earned a little more respect from geocachers once you have found a few of those. And before you look a my profile, I only have one 5 terrain rating cache find. There will be more because the beauty of geocaching is that I can choose an LPC or a challenging hike Chasing tupperware in the woods. End of rant, this is how I spend my time waiting for firmware updates" I am not trying to put down geocachers. I have probably found 30-40 caches, I just never felt the need to log them after I found them. Some people enjoy finding the cache, and some people enjoy logging their finds for others to see. Probably a competitive vs. noncompetitive thing. I'm not competing with anyone, I just like to find a cache when I'm on a hike. So I see no reason to let everyone else know that I found it. I have found several 5 terrain rated caches. Lots of fun. I'm not minimizing the difficulty of these hikes, but they just don't qualify as serious adventure in my book. Then again some people think walking 5 minutes in the park is serious adventure so maybe I'm wrong. IMHO serious adventure means 70lb pack, muti-day, ropes, crampons, and some nasty dehydrated food....you get the idea. Maybe we need to create a new category for technical caches. Just trying to point out that it works great for some stuff.

"is petroleum jelly an adequate sealant in your opinion, or is there a superior product?" I think petroleum jelly is fine. I used to use it on o rings in pool pumps all the time and it worked great. The grease I am referring to is a silicone grease. I actually just purchased a Petzl Duo Headlamp rated to IPX7 and it came with the silicone grease and instructions that stated the o ring in the battery compartment needed to be re-greased every time it was opened to maintain IPX7 spec. Also you have to coat the entire o ring. Just smearing grease on the top is not enough. I remove the o ring, coat it, and then replace it on the unit.

"Have you used your Colorado on Mt. Rainier, or on a 100 mile backpack through the Rockies?" Since I've only had my Colorado for three weeks, I have only used it climbing Mt St Helens and Mt Hood. On Mt hood I didn't make the summit because of bad weather but at 6F air temperature with lithium batteries I got 27 hours of use. Since lithiums are pretty light carrying 8 extra is no big deal. With the batteries in the unit that gives me about 125 hours (5 days) of continuous run time. My unit has never locked up. I have removed my o rings and coated them with grease, and tested the unit underwater in the sink for 10 minutes while operating with no problem. O rings on hard plastic will never seal correctly without grease. The only thing that surprised me is that they didn't send grease with the unit. And yes every team on Denali has a GPS, it's part of the required gear package, and in a whiteout you bet your life on it. The Colorado hasn't been proven there yet, but you'll find a very high percentage of 60csx units up there so I won't be surprised to see some Colorados this season. A couple ounces of lithiums will last the entire expedition. BTW no one uses Sherpas on Denali since Sherpas live in the foothills of the Himalayas And you are correct, geocaching is one of the modes on the unit, and a very important one. I was just referring to the quote that geocaching = serious adventure. I wouldn't call geocahing a serious adventure, I'd call it a fun game in the outdoors.

I know that this is a geocahing forum, and I am an occasional geocahcher, but I would argue that "the people who are serious about getting out there (and) finding adventure…” like myself are happy with the Colorado. I use my Colorado to get me where I'm going, and get me back alive. This may be climbing to the summit of Mt Rainier, or a 100 mile backpack through the Rockies. For these "serious adventures" the Colorado has worked as well as my old 60csx which I lost. Most of the complaints about the Colorado are focused on playing a game (a fun game) but, not serious adventure. So the next time you're 30 feet from your car complaining about the cache description not coming up fast enough, think about that guy who is at 17,000ft on Denali in a whiteout who's life depends on his Colorado showing him the way back to safety. Is he happy with his Colorado, or is he just sucking up to Garmin? I can thank Garmin for probably saving my life in the past, and if that's sucking up then they deserve it.

Beware of those phone type clips like on the 60csx. I had the clip break while it was attached to the shoulder strap of my pack. I was climbing Mt Adams through lava rock scree for 3 miles before I realized I only had half the broken clip attached to my pack and no 60csx. Spent 2 hours at the end of a 11 hour climb looking in the dark, but no luck. I would always use a backup lanyard just in case!

Many have suggested using vasoline on the slides to make it easier to get the cover off. I would also suggest smearing a thin coating on the o-rings. I used to clean pools, and we always coated all of the o-rings on pumps and such with vasoline. Even under considerable pressure in a pool pump it will stop almost all leaks. I have vasoline on my o-rings, and I had my CO operating underwater (in the sink) for about ten minutes with no problems. There was water under the cover when I took it out, but none in the battery compartment or SD slot.

Lithiums generally last longer at lower temps in my experience. I'm out mountaineering, snowshoeing, and snow camping all winter. I've been on many multi-day trips where the temperature never got above freezing for three days. My Colorado 400t lasted 27 hours on it's first set of lithiums all while operating between 10F-25F. If you are using other types of batteries your best bet is to take two sets and keep one set as close to your body as possible. Then swap them every time the cold set runs out of juice. Duct taping under your armpit will keep the warmest. Some people tape hand warmers to their extra batteries, but this gets expensive. Sounds funny but anyone who shoots video in cold temps with those custom NiCd or NiMh batteries knows this is the only way to be able to keep shooting.