Rockin Roddy

I would RATHER not have any rules as to the moving of a TB! The rule should be on the cacher...BE COURTEOUS TO OTHERS!! I've said all along that IF you can help something, move it, if you can't, don't move it, but try to trade fair if possibe! edit to add: those miserable Lions tried hard to make sure they'll get a first round pick...at least they MIGHT be able to succeed at SOMETHING!!

Again....READ THE WHOLE THREAD!!! Your jumping around and not even keeping in context what was said!! It's this kind of inaccuracy that makes for others to MISS the point!! Read the whole thing and THEN you can pick apart things that you KNOW what you are talking about!! Lastly...I wouldn't try to force MY way on anyone, DON'T try to force YOUR ways on me!!

I'm out...FOOTBALL!!!

The key to my quote is the ASKING to trade fair if POSSIBLE part!! Again, around here, you won't have any problem with them moving...they move fast! There should be a change in the wording for TB rules: Take ALL you can help, leave any you can't and TRY to trade fairly if possible!! Here's what I'm meaning: A TB hotel by definition means that there is a GOOD possibility there will be a TB in the cache. If someone comes in and sweeps the area, there aren't any! If that cache stays empty for long, why call it a hotel at all?? Will little Mary Cacher be happy to come and find nobody home?? I know that many cachers (at least around here) won't leave a TB if there isn't one to take (that's NOT my view of how it should be, that's how it is)! I have no problem leaving a TB just to leave it...especially if it has sat in my bag for long...I do it all the time! I also try to collect large amounts of TBs in a single trip...would you like it if I came into your area and just grabbed every TB up on a regular basis...just to have them??? Not likely! I'd be the local TB hog!! BUT...if I was to visit your area on a fairly regular basis, sweep out all the TBs AND replace them too, wouldn't I be doing a favor to both the TB owner AND the cache community??? With that same scenario, if I find a TB that I just can't help (going in the other direction or wants to stay in that area), I'm happy to leave it behind for the next person...even if it has sat for awhile!! I wouldn't want to move a TB AWAY from it's intended destination! edit to add: BD, I totally agree with your comment about a hotel that REQUIRES you to leave one behind if you don't have one to trade...if you can help a TB on it's way...BY ALL MEANS, please do!! There shouldn't be a REQUIREMENT, maybe a nice invitation to trade fairly, but not a requirement!!

I have quite a few cemetery hides...our area has very little public area for use. One that I like the most is a cache that includes answering questions that can be found on the memorial stone in the cemetery. The stone has info about a family that started from one being born on the Mayflower in the early 1600's while in port in MA. There's a container just off the grounds which you have to find, but I require you to email the answers to me to post. I know, virts are no longer allowed, I know that I can't REQUIRE you to do this answering (well, I can require, but I can't really enforce), the reason for the questions is solely to get you to read the VERY interesting history found on the stone!! Would I delete any logs from cachers that don't send me the answers...not likely, I just want you to see the history!! So far, that cache has been met with a lot of cachers who thanked me for bringing them to this historic spot! About hauntings...my house has it's share of "spiritual dwellers", I've seen two of them VERY distinctly!! While I haven't been hurt by any, one DID cause a bit of worry when it pushed a door at my cache teammate Tod. The door nearly knocked him down the stairs. I think it was an accident, OR Tod may have irked them because he would always call them ALIENS!! True story people...I make nothing up here!!

Wow...Traildad...where are you coming from?? You MIGHT want to read the whole thread before jumping in...first, I don't even have a "TB PRISON"...that's stated. Second...TB hotels are often filled to their limit with TBs (at least around here). They come from all over and they move almost as fast as they come in! You see...where I live, we have something like 5 of the top 50 TB movers within a two hour (maybe a bit more) drive. TBs DON'T sit around for much more than a week...if at all! Geopigs, Lost Scouts, MaxB on the River and Wolverine Warriors are all nearly locals to this area. Where did you come up with that "can't leave" rule?? How would you enforce that??? How long do you think it would be before YOU got harassing letters?? And I'd have to say that if you placed such rules on one of your TBs...it's very likely to come up missing pretty fast! People don't want such restrictions on any TBs, what the debate is about is whether you should disobey a rule of a cache owner just because you are a bug owner. The debate is about being CONSIDERATE toward others!!! Maggieszoo has it about right!! TBs are meant to travel, and around here, travel they will!! I too find myself taking TBs without leaving one behind...if it's going my way and I don't have one to leave behind (considerate to others). IF I just traded my 20th TB (fairly) and have no more to leave AND the TB isn't going my way or I CAN'T help it on it's mission, I would LIKELY discover that TB and leave it for the next cacher too...this doesn't happen very often, but it might under certain conditions (that's a whole different thread though). Mostly, I trade evenly...let's say I went to Ohio. I picked up 20 TBs from various caches. Unless I go out and replace those TBs with more TBs, those TBs will be stranded in my bag. Sure, I can drop them wherever I go, TB or not, but since MY aspect is more on the TB (when I'm in TB mode), I will be looking for places with TBs. Now, if I am close to a TBs goal, well that's the BEST thing of all!! Getting to take a TB to it's destination is a true honor!! And lastly...TD...if I filled my cache with my TBs and placed a rule that no TB was to leave until you have one to trade (which isn't likely because that's pretty much a "silly" rule), wouldn't there be others' TBs in there after a few trades??? After 20 trades (based on trading one at a time), there wouldn't be ANY of my TBs left!! So, not sure that would help (even if there was someone crazy enough to place that rule on a cache). All that MOST (I can't say as to intent for everyone I don't know) hotel owners are trying to do is keep the game fun for every visitor by ASKING that you trade evenly if possible. This assures that the next cacher who comes to the hotel (expecting there to be TBs I might add) will get a TB in most cases!! Common courtesy and consideration!!

Ohhh, you'd be surprised how fast they cared if the complaints started flying in...and I doubt it would matter if it WAS over a "silly" rule!! Nobody is standing out front of a cache telling someone to take or not to, I've explained this so anyone who wants to think with an open mind can see what I'm saying, so now it's all yours. The whole concept of a "TB PRISON" is funny to start with! Do you guys envision the cache owner standing out front wih a gun and baton beating back all that try to "escape" their cell?? If someone comes out and empties the cache, do you think the "warden" will come after you with a posse?? I don't understand...I'm not being rude about this, just pointing out what I see as humorous. Naturally, if the cache gets empty, nothing happens! And as for that last bit...yeah...a cacher with little more to do than harass another because they disagree on a part of this game is probably a little less than you make it to be...at least I haven't seen too much of that inconsiderate activity in my neck of the woods My words are right there for all to see, it's straight forward! Walking it through the gardens as we have grows tiresome and fruitless. You have your opinion, I have mine...mine is the opinion that everyone could play this game and STILL be nice about it!! Good to debate though BD...and a nice conversation throughout!! Thanks!! Getting late here, not sure where you are...going to bed!!

Maybe you live in an area where there are few cachers visiting??? A TB that sits in a cache for longer than a week around here is a muggled TB. There are many different ways to look at this game, not everyone will agree, and no matter how many others you quote...each has their own opinion, I have mine. I would have to say that this is how problems are created in the caching community...you don't think the cache owner has a right, the cache owner gets mad, the next thing you know GC has a stack of complaints on their desks. It would be far better to be considerate toward others and share the feeling of being courteous and respectful to all. There is no real rule here...it's just common respect! Take all you can help, leave any you can't and if possible trade fair...I don't know...is that so much to ask?? Of course, this has nothing to do with the social or even active cacher who isn't into the TB aspect so much, there aren't going to be many cachers grabbing up every TB out of a hotel loaded with 20 or so TBs...too much work logging them in unless it's for the numbers. I'm talking about the "headhunters" out there like myself. Crazy isn't it...the hunter that is being considerate of others!!

I see we agree then BD...take ALL you can HELP!!! AND, I SOMEWHAT agree with the comments from your second quote...we agree!! Believe me, I am all for this...what I disagree with is the fact that you think it's fine to place rules on TBs yet you'd encourage others to ignore rules placed by cache owners. I'll gladly follow any TB rule someone wants to place on THEIR TB, just as I'll follow any rule placed on a cache by the owner of THEIR cache. Common courtesy and respect is really all it boils down to. I don't mind following others' rules (as long as they're sensible at least)...but it should be a two-way street. AND...if a TB hotel happens to be near where there is a TB "headhunter", that hotel will end up empty and pretty much useless to other cachers...unless the "headhunter" plays fairly. Yes...take all you can help, but leave any you can't!! OR replace any you can!! Keep in mind that I don't have a TB hotel, but I do visit them often...if I was to "clean out" a hotel every time I visit, there wouldn't be much use for that cache! After a few times of this happening, the locals would stop dropping TBs in and the owner would probably not want to restock it often just to see it empty out. Then you're at the mercy of ME...will I bring some back for others??? If not, that's a mighty bright "VACANCY" sign that'll be glowing out front!!

To answer the OP question, yes, if you can help move a TB along to it's intended mission, by all means. And yes, you can definitely take a TB if you don't have one to trade...but you should be considerate to others too, if at all possible. I especially believe that a TB sitting for an extended time should be helped to another cache witha bit more activity. As to the comments...You say the CACHE owner has no right to place limitations, but you say a TB owner has the right...is that fair?? Both of you are owners, yet you say YOUR rules overrules the CACHE owner's rules. What gives you the right to say disobey that rule because I don't agree with it?? I know, you say that there shouldn't be the "prison" rules in place for caches...maybe if YOU don't like that rule being in place, you should make a rule that your TB can't be placed in those caches. As I have stated before in other posts, I agree that a TB that can be helped along should be...my problem is with the TB "headhunters" who come in and wipe out an area without being considerate enough to leave any behind for someone else to have the pleasure of moving. Sure, if that person was able to help EVERY TB, fine! But to come in and take them all and say that it's ok because that's what the TB rules are....what about the next cacher who may not have ever had the chance to move a bug?? Maybe the next visitor (possibly a child) wanted to pick up a TB, came out to get one, but was denied because the person before took them all just to take them. Where there shouldn't be a HARDLINE rule that you MUST trade evenly, why not encourage considerate polite actions while caching?? After all, this IS a family sport, maybe we should teach our youth through action! As I agree a TB owner CAN place rules on TBs, I also agree a CACHE owner has that right. Before you go bashing away, I'm making a fair comparisson here and this is a legit question. No need to get all cranky and rude. edit for spelling which often isn't the greatest!!

edit to delete dupe post!!

Through all this, I forgot to add, I RARELY discover a TB except for at an event or if it's a person's coin...I'm not going out on a regular basis and discovering TBs for the heck of it. Like I said, sometimes circumstances dictate action.

As I have stated, I try to be considerate to everyone else. I try to see it your way as I would hope you'd see it mine...and I hope that everything can be carried on nicely. That's the only thing that annoys me...disagree with me, but be nice! No need being rude! Since I can't control what others do, I don't let it bother me, I merely stated a point of view that apparently others disagreed with. I agree that the TBs should be moved if someone can help it along on it's goal, just as I disagree that someone should come in and clean out an area and claim they were being considerate to the owner. In our area, most TBs sit a week tops, so we don't have that kind of problem (a TB sitting idle). If a TB is listed in a cache for an extended period of time, that's usually because it was muggled. With so many TB collectors in our region, a TB moves fairly fast around here. And you are right Dave-W6DPS...no sleep being lost!! [;-)] Happy Holidays to you as well!! your name seems familiar, I may have moved one of your TBs!

NOPE...If I was your dad, you'd have more respect and consideration for others!! It's all in the upbringing though, and this is the reason for all the killings in schools, at the jobsite etc...nobody thinks they need to be considerate!! FRIENDLINESS IS A THING OF THE PAST! I'm the one with SYMPATHY for YOU. I live in a world where kindness and politefullness are the norm!! I can handle all the snide remarks you want...wouldn't it be easier (and healthier) to be kind instead of rude?? Now then...back on topic!! I have told you how I feel, there it is! If you disagree not a problem!! TBs ARE to travel, but sometimes other circumstances prevent this...deleting a log isn't the answer!!

I only take personally the comments like those I stated...I have thick skin, so no biggie! But, as happened with Tommy Trojan, I won't be mean just because I don't agree...I would rather be nice than rude! TT quit because of the "less than respectful comments many made toward him. If that wasn't your intent, fine, but you could rephrase some of your comments to not be so harsh...that's how problems are created. Nice brings about nice!! Maybe THAT's my problem...my mom taught me to be a nice considerate person!!

Don't get me wrong Thot, I wouldn't go out to just "discover" TBs...that's frowned upon by others in the top 50 list. You are judged by your peers, like it or not! On the other hand, if I CAN discover one which I have no way to help in it's mission...i.e. we went to Ohio for a day of TB trading. There were a few TBs that had missions to "stay in Ohio". If I have more caches to go to after that one, I'll gladly take it and drop it in another Ohio cache. BUT one of the TBs in the LAST cache we did, wanted to stay in Ohio, so I discovered it and left it! I wasn't making another stop and I didn't want to upset the TB owner by removing it to Michigan. The same with a TB that would like to go in the opposite direction...I'm not going to take the TB in the wrong direction just to log it, but I'll discover it and it'll still be able to move on to it's destination!! If I've used up ALL of my TBs and have nothing to give back, I might just discover a TB and let the next cacher enjoy it as well...just being considerate AND I did have the TB in my hands. I'm against just going out and logging discoveries because you're too lazy to make an effort though!! Discovering is an option that helps for those purposes...but it shouldn't be abused either!!

Aushiker...I wasn't meaning YOU when I said that the comment about TB hogs...I'm pointing out that we all need to be considerate toward the next cacher, if you were into the TB aspect, you'd understand. I go out and cache OFTEN...sometimes I go out merely for the TBs...if all the TBs are gone from a cache that I made a 100+ mile trip one way to get to, yes that I find to be rude. Placing limitations on a TB is the same as placing the "member's only" limitation on a cache...what, you can't find one if you don't pay the premium??? I'm not saying that you shouldn't be allowed to place some limitations on your Tbs, but deleting logs because you didn't get your TB moved isn't the answer. One limitation I use is "PLEASE KEEP ME MOVING" "THIS ISN'T SWAG" etc....but I don't REQUIRE you to move my TB to log it. Blue Duece..I guess you misunderstood...I agree with you, if you can help a TB along...TAKE it!! BUT...if you are going out for a day of collecting TBs and you DON'T have any to give back, you are being hogish and inconsiderate to others!!! I would NEVER go to a cahce and wipe out every TB JUST because I want to log them in my collection (so the loss of a stat comment...way off)...if I can leave a TB behind for the next cacher (possibly a youngster who enjoys finding TBs in a cache) I DO!! I stride to be considerate and not HOG all the TBs!! If that means there are a few left that I could have taken, so be it, BUT, if there's a TB I want to log and I don't have a TB to leave (especially if I've been out trading the TBs in the area), I'm happy to discover and leave it for the next cacher...just being considerate toward others who are out for the sport and NOT the numbers. AND...if you check my stats..I DO get off the couch!! The 500 caches in 5 months thing MIGHT suggest that!! Is there no politeness left for this sport??? Is it sooo hard to be considerate to others around you?? Are pleasant comments in forums dead?? I'd think you'd feel differently if you were concentrating on TBs and they all disappeared before you got to the area...and the person didn't leave any in trade!! If it's because of the casual cacher who came out to grab a TB while hunting caches, fine, but if a TB "headhunter" comes in and wipes out an area...JUST WRONG!! I don't mind it if, say for instance, the cacher before me takes 3 times the amount they leave, or even 4 times...but if you don't have any to leave, and you are out on a mission to remove every TB from an area, that's just wrong!! OH...and HOGISH!! If you're the casual cacher and want the last TB...great, go for it!! Lastly...I don't need your sympathy, comments that are less than polite...not needed either..."if there's nothing nice to say"...as my mom would tell me.

There are some instances that "discovering" is a bad thing!! I worked at the TB tables at the '06 Geobash, a person was walking around all the tables "writing down TB numbers". That's NOT the intent of discovery!! I would NEVER discover a TB just because I saw it at an event or something like that (unless that's the TBs mission...to be discovered at events), but there are instances that discovery is the best way to go!! edit to add...Aushiker...that's a slippery slope you're on!! This is the very rule that Tommy Trojan has in place for all his TBs and coins...and you probably know of Tommy's troubles because of it!! People most likely will politely follow your rules, but then, you MAY find someone that wants to "press" the subject. I followed the rules with TT and we are now good friends, but others may not decide to follow your rules and then you will make "enemies" in the cache community (as Tommy Trojan found out). A cacher shouldn't have the power to delete logs...maybe there should be a review board for complaints and the decision should be made there. This would stop the problems and solve the hard feelings some may get if you delete their logs!! Don't get me wrong...if you DON'T want me to discover your item, I likely won't, but there are some out there that just want to stir up trouble, so they MIGHT discover just for that reason. The next thing you know, a complaint is sent in to GC, and the problems begin. I wouldn't like it if someone deleted my log though...it has happened at a cache requiring answers to a question (this one was a song that you needed to quote)...I answered, but the owner thought it'd be neat to mess with me as I had trouble finding the cache...there were hard feelings there as I was trying to set up my 500th find to coincide with the '06 Geobash!! We're over it now, but it did make me mad at the time!

I've discovered a few TBs...some at events (the "discover only" TBs placed on the tables) sometimes while caching!! If the TB has a mission to go places that I'm NOT going, I'll discover it and leave it for the next cacher to help along...I shouldn't be penalized for being considerate to both the TB parent and the next cacher!! Sometimes I have distributed all the TBs I had for trading with (yes, I know a lot of you think that the 'trade even" rule doesn't exist for TBs...I like to as it is just rude to take every TB out of an area if you've nothing to give back...I wouldn't want it done to me, I won't do it to others...this doesn't mean that if you don't have a TB, you can't trade...take one if you want..NOT all of them) so I'll dicover a TB and let another cacher enjoy finding it. I'd much rather be a considerate cacher than a TB hog!! I do a lot of TB moving (#37 on the Larobley top 50 list), I've been out TB hunting many times and have come across caches that are supposed to be full of TBs, only to find that a previous cacher just visited and wiped out everything without leaving a single TB behind as trade. These may not be trade items to many of you, but the "trade fair" rule SHOULD be in place for TBs too!! As for the icon collecting...that's wrong if that's what you're doing, but there have been instances while TB hunting with a friend that I was there to pick up the TB, but when we got home, I didn't get the opportunity to actually HAVE the TB in my inventory...i.e. we go out (a friend and myself TB hunting), find a large assortment of TBs (and replace them trading fairly). She goes home and logs them all, I wait for her to "drop" them into a cache so I can "grab" them up. SOMETIMES, there is another trade set up BEFORE I can get them in my inventory, so I might discover them (I was there to get them , I should be allowed to log them too) so they are still in her inventory for the next trade!! In that instance...it might LOOK as if we are SWAPPING TB numbers, but in reality WE AREN'T. We shouldn't be penalized for this!! There are a few reasons for the discovery option...and sometimes it is needed to be used...we SHOULDN'T have our logs deleted for this...it IS allowed!!

The way the new setup is, you have to go to the TB section to activate a new coin as well! It's a bit confusing, but that's the way they set it up.

I pretty much do the same as the rest, I lay my gps down and let it sit at the location for about 10-15 minutes, then I mark that location and walk off. I come back after a few minutes (to let the gps reset so to say) and make sure the coords gets me close. I had problems during the summer with all the tree cover, but my coords have been spot on lately!!

If you can't find the email confirmation that was sent to you, you need to go to the contact us on the menu to the left side of the screen, then to the Groundspeak help page...it's underlined. From there you go to submit a ticket and then you WAIT as it may take them a few days to answer. I submitted a ticket about problems with a coin activation code, it took them almost a week to answer. Be patient if you must go this route...but I'd look hard through all my email folders (spam, inbox etc)...even check your trash folder to see if you accidentally threw it out!!

I have a Baby Loggerhead coin which went on a cruise with friends earlier this year...the last mileage was messed up (from Europe to MI...not sure how the mistake was made), but the final tally was 13, 700+ miles in 2 weeks!! The coin visited several caches along the way!!

Yep...Rusty & Libby! Thanks Bjorn, you beat me to the answer!! Up late...or early?? I had heard through the grapevine that Rusty was designing this coin (ok...Rusty may have let it slip). edit to add...never mind Ben, I wasn't allowing for time zone!!

It is a nice one...I think maybe Rusty had a hand in the designing of this one! Maybe he'll know something!