wildchld97

Hi I'm just curious if anyone has any ideas on how to outsmart the FTF hounds when placing a cache. I don't have anything against anyone who gets off on always being a FTF per say, but I'd like to give others the chance against those who run around with hundreds of dollars worth of gizmos at their fingertips and/or don't have any time constraints. I've thought about maybe letting the cache go with just a ribbon for the FTF, going back a few days later and putting an envelope with money or a gift card in for say..the 10th or 15th finder. I've also played with the idea of putting a puzzle/riddle inside the cache and having the FTF email me with the answer before I give him/her the coordinates for the FTF prize hidden elsewhere (make them work for it.) I'm not sure how I'd do this in trying to list it though since it won't be a multi for *everyone*. Any ideas?

A cache called the "Speakeasy" maybe? LOL

Your caution is valid on many levels. On the other hand, I'm more worried about those who go poking around on their own willy nilly in vast wilderness areas, not skilled in the least as campers/hikers/survivalists-all for the sake of a find before dark...(or so they hope). The thought of a team of geocachers armed with cell phones (and perhaps a nice little weapon or two) being threatened by a serial killer is far less likely.

Dang..is that where I left him? I knew something was wrong when I brought back the TB that was supposed to go in there.

I have the scars to prove that my gps, my compass, and my common sense have not always agreed. If there is a well marked trail I'll follow it for a while despite the fact that my GPS says that I'm only 300 feet away. If the cache description says I'll have to bushwhack at some point, I'll try to do it where it looks like another person has already whacked down the thorns, evicted the snakes and created steps in the mud from their heavy boots.

I found $10 in a cache once. Since I was almost out of gas and no couches to shake for spare change, my prayers to get home were answered. I had nothing in my geobag worth that much money so I just dumped all of my geo stuff in the ammo box and high tailed it to the gas station....thanking the geo gods the whole way.

I love cemetary caches. I'm a history buff and sometimes just looking at the old gravestones and some of the most beautiful inscriptions and artwork, I am reminded of a time where people actaully cared about appearances and how they were remembered. It also makes me appreciate how far we have come in the medical field. Some of the most notable cemetaries I've visited are the ones that are hidden and overgrown in obscure areas that you simply stumble over. There are many of them in the Smoky Mtns and quite a few I've falled for (painfully no less) in the Allegheny Mtns. I'd love to find a cache hidden near one of them to give me an excuse to go back do a little weeding and visit the babies and the soldiers who have been forgotten for so many years.

I'm actually glad that this thread popped up. I have a nice yard in a residential area that has about 2 acres or more of wooded area behind it that is also my property. I have trails of my own creation and they give me great pleasure when I can't be anywhere else. The positives for me to place a cache in my wooded wonderland are (a) being able to share my trails with others ( getting to meet some geocachers who are not shy, and © feeling safe to place a full size cache with quality swag without worry of it being plundered or muggled and (d) the ability to check on the cache more regularly to refill/replace with swag/pens/log books etc I also thought about the potential negatives. (a) the fact that many would feel uncomfortable accessing the trails through my backyard. ( how to prevent those foolish enough to try and hunt these trails at 2 am despite any warnings I might include about the dangers © how to make sure that people don't go through a neighbors yard by mistake. and (d) how to put a legal disclaimer in the cache description that absolves me of liability in case someone takes a tumble. Until I figure out the solution to those problems...I'll just keep playing with the idea. I have only hunted one house cache that was located in Daytona. To be fair, I was also kinda creeped out knowing that someone might see what I was doing and ask uncomfortable questions, but after reading the cache logs and the description, I felt much better. The address was given, the hint was a no-brainer and many other cachers before us had the opportunity to say hello to "grandma and Aunt Ruth" in the process. Seems they love the tourists and get a kick out of meeting new folks...especially geocachers. I understand everyone has their own preference for certain types of caches. That's what makes them fun. Nobody says that you *have* to hunt all caches. I won't do puzzle caches that involve complicated math equasions or require you to research some obscure language. Those go on ignore for me. I happen to like most micros because I simply like playing hide and seek sometimes. Those are just *my*preferences on how I play the game. I'm not going to demand or expect that any cache that doesn't meet my expectations or comfort level be banned...but I do expect that the cache description include *exactly* where you will be searching, what you will find, whether the area is known for criminal activity (urban caches) and if there are any known hazards. This gives a person the ability to pass it by if it doesn't fit in well with their particular taste or adventure level.

I've told a few people, but their response was less than enthused. I guess to them it sounds like a boring so called "geek" game. Of course, those opinions came from people who have an IQ smaller than my shoe size...so they don't count. OTOH, I've taken a few people with me on some of my hunts and they now have the geo-fever. In any case, I will only tell people of the game whom I think are worth the time for me to give them a detailed explanation...those who are already the outdoor types, love a challenge, know what a GPSr is, and they're interested in doing something different. Otherwise I don't waste my breath. If it's someone who I know will automatically go into a blank stare at the mention of a GPSr...I'll give them the tried and true response: I use billion dollar satellites to hunt tupperware containers.

Oh boy...we're leaving for Daytona in less than a month. I was planning on doing a LOT of geocaching while I was there. I'm going to have to remember to make a last minute check before I leave to see if any of the caches I planned to do are disabled. In any case, I hope the owners of the caches ONLY lost their cache..and not their homes as well.

Well gee, I called them rednecks and got slammed...but the term "thug" is universal and acceptable I suppose. Apparently my sarcasm in a previous post has been misunderstood. *Their* personal approach by sending these disgusting emails with reference to any type of so-called *Jihad* and *hostage*...was disrespectful to Americans in general IMMHO. Even the "rednecks" that I had mentioned are more respectful than that. In fact, I can't imagine any red blooded American redneck allowing someone in their midst even uttering those words without opening a big ole' can of whoop butt. I can handle drunken hunters any day, I can handle a joke, but anyone that wants to use terrorist terminology and have me treat them with some type of respect? NO. As far as I'm concerned, the SGL's belong to ALL of us. These lands were set aside as areas where hunters could HUNT...but that does NOT give them *exclusive* rights. They still have to be responsible and to be aware of others in the area. Many of the state parks are also state gamelands. My kids PLAY and HIKE there. We've always been careful about where and when we hike, camp, and play and have always given hunters leeway...but I'll be darned if some whacked out hunter group is going to send out e-mails sounding like the soldiers of Bin Laden and try to intimidate innocent American people. There are more mature ways of dealing with issues. Sec. 2510...Littering and restrictions on vehicles states "It is unlawful for any person while hunting or furtaking or while on lands or waters open to hunting or furtaking to: (1) Deposit or leave any garbage, bottles, cartons, containers, glass, paper or other rubbish or debris other than in a place or receptacle maintained for that purpose. The provisions of this paragraph shall not apply to any spent shotgun shell or spent rifle shell casing which is ejected during normal hunting activities. THAT is what I was referring to when I mentioned the beer cans, cigarette butts and food wrappers. Sec. 2511. Damage to trees: a) General rule. - It is unlawful while hunting or while preparing to hunt for any game or wildlife: (1) To cause damage to any tree or trees located upon any public or privately owned lands as a result of constructing any tree stand, platform or any other manmade support of any description or as a result of using any portable tree stand or any other implement or device of any description to climb any tree. Look for the cache by the Montour Trail and you'll see a deer stand that is littering the creek and disrupting the natural beauty. Do you think that the hunter who placed it is concerned? Nah...he/she got his/her kill and went home. When the floods came and destroyed the perch, he/she abandoned it. This stand was NOT on private property and clearly against the law. As for the tresspassing issue on my property where there are CLEARLY marked "NO HUNTING" and "NO TRESSPASSING" signs: Sec. 2512 states: (a) General rule. - On any lands or waters owned, leased or controlled by the commission, it is unlawful, without first securing consent or a permit from the commission, to: (1) Go upon any lands or waters which are posted against entry for any purpose One person posted that I should get the license plate number of the illegal hunters on my property. That would be MY first choice, but I have a lot of land and a lot of places that they could have parked to have access. I've called the police, but bushwhacking just isn't their thing. They DO offer to take a report though.What am I supposed to do with that? Even at our other property in the Allegheny National Forest, the screwballs are spotlighting and hunting at night. At least I respect the hours of the places that we choose to hunt our cache. Most of us DO respect the law...as do hunters. Someone referred to me as being "ignorant" as their perception of my commentary. Hardly. I'm a college educated person with a criminal justice degree. I just happen to be married to a redneck family. I know both sides of the coin. As for the illegality of "disrupting a hunt" That was referring to Sec. 2302. "Interference with lawful taking of wildlife or other activities permitted by this title prohibited" Now, Nobody that I know would *really* do something like that *knowingly* for Sec. 2302 (a) states "it is unlawful for another person at the location where the activity is taking place to intentionally obstruct or interfere with the lawful taking of wildlife." The comment where I advocate placing micro's every 200 feet, wearing orange and making as much noise as possible was a joke, but apparently the humor was lost. Grow up. HOWEVER: Sec. 2302 © states "Exceptions. - The conduct declared unlawful in this section does not include any activities arising from lawful activity by other land uses, including farming, mining, forestry practices, RECREATION or ANY OTHER activities when it is evident that such activities are not intended to violate this section". Geocaching IS recreation. Take the cache away and you still have the coordinates to a *most of the time* beautiful or picturesque location. I could just be hiking and taking in the scenery for what it's worth. I'm STILL allowed to hike on those lands. I'm just pointing out that there are so-called "ignorant people" in every walk of life but I'm not one of them. There are good and bad in ALL facits of life. I am a hunter and I am also a geocacher. I am a college educated redneck. How is that for being on all sides? E-mailing representivives are not going to change a thing. Pessimistic...maybe. However, I have seen how the political machine tumbles around. Pay the *ransom* for your caches from the *terrorists* and take them somewhere else for all I care. There are plenty of others to hunt OFF the borders of these "sacred" grounds.

Geocaching keeps these married folk from sitting at home griping, moaning and complainting *to* each other and griping, moaning and complaining about which direction we should go, whether we should follow coordinates or the arrow, and whether bushwacking is absolutely necessary. lol Then we can smile and congratulate each other when a cache is found.

I don't have anything against hunters per say...but I do have a few issues with the way that some of them are seemingly under the assumption of exclusive entitlement to be on SGL property while all others should be banned (including bird watchers, hikers, campers, nature lovers, and of course geocachers/letterboxers). These folks seem to believe that just because they are on State Game lands that it's their God given right to hunt unobstructed should be protected. I have to believe that some of these folks are the same ones who continuously hunt on MY property which is clearly marked NO HUNTING and NO TRESSPASSING...probably because they feel that it's their God given right to hunt...PERIOD..anywhere and at anytime. Turkey season is coming up and they don't want to accidentally shoot you and end up having to miss their turkey and end the day with burying your body (or heaven forbid a whole family) in the woods...that's too much work for one day....especially when you've been stumbling around the woods all morning with a gun and a case of beer stashed in your pack. As for trash? In my neck of the woods I've seen more garbage strewn about the gamelands by these yahoos to fill a dump. Just look under some of the deerstands and around the area that they've been hunting and you'll see what I mean. Beercans, bottles, broken deerstands that have fallen to the ground, cigarette butts, wrappers from food, etc.They certainly don't CITO. I'll go along with placing a micro every 200 feet of any cache that is actually removed. I would also advocate being in the woods clearly early for a "morning stroll" during the season wearing bright orange and making as much noise as possible. No turkey dinners for anyone. Simple...No cache. No turkey.

I love geocaching and I just wanted to say hello to everyone. I don't post much either. People on the local sight seem downright hostile to people who don't play the game their *particular* way. It's "my way or the highway". That's my personal observation though and I could be wrong. I've seen the "micros vs. regulars" debate and the "lame caches vs. so-called "real" caches" debate. I've seen the "I place *quality* cache items vs. the "good lord another cache with mcCrap" debate. Recently, I've seen the debate over whether or not people can log a particular cache to use it as a requirement of an "offsite" game. Personally, (and this is my own opinion..take it or leave it) I think some of these people need to grow up. I got into the game because I love to see places that I've never been before...period. I really don't care about what I *get* from the cache or what I see in it. Most of the time I don't even take anything from it...I leave something that *everyone*likes..and that's money. I sign the log and I feel good because I accomplished a goal that I set for myself that day. Whether it's a micro, a puzzle cache, a regular cache, a multi, an "urban cache" or a "woodland cache"...I love them all.

I'd rather log a DNF and try again some other day while reading the logs of others who really *DID* find the cache. Logging a "find" just because you were at the "general location" does_not_count. To me, in order to count a cache as "found"...the person MUST sign the log. If no log entry was made...I would delete their log on site..

Well..bears and critters may do it on a regular basis..but I try my darndest to run to the nearest loo. Hubby on the other hand has an unofficial motto..."Have tree...will pee". Luckily, our agreement states that he HAS to wait until I find the cache before he can relieve himself. It would be a real bummer to inadvertantly wee on the hide. LOL

I honestly ran into this particular problem twice. Once we were looking approached by a muggle and he asked what we were looking for. I told him that I had lost my bracelet while we were walking through the woods on a previous visit and was hoping it was still there somewhere.. Another time, I went one step further since it was a heavily traveled area and I acted sheepish and told the person that I got mad at my husband and threw a my ring into the woods during an argument. My sad eyes sent the inquisitor walking in the opposite direction in a hurry with an "I'm sorry for asking" look. I try NOT to be discovered at any cost regardless. If a person doesn't play the game..they could potentially (for whatever self-serving or pompous reason) destroy or remove the cache. I don't want to be responsible for that. It would be nice to think that you could explain the game to a total stranger and receive their blessing...but sadly, I don't think that's what happens in most cases. Several of our local letterboxes have turned up stolen...whether by chance or design and that gives me the incentive to lie as I see fit to protect the cache for the next person who seeks it. I like the other repsonses that other people have handy though. I'll have to give them a try if the need arises.

I mostly cache with my husband/and or kids. Some of the trails that we've been on are very remote and I'm not sure that I'd feel secure enough to rely only on my cell phone reception to ensure that I can call someone for help if I'm in some sort of trouble. Also, I've been on some trails where I've passed some shady looking characters. If I were alone, it would have given me a bit of the willies. I would advise anyone to just use common sense. Male or female, if you're going to a cache or hiking in general that is in a remote location or could involve strenuous terrain or risk of injury...let someone know where you're going and what time you expect to be back. (You might still be dead...but at least someone will know about it. LOL)Take along a basic first aid kit, plenty of water, a few trail bars wouldn't hurt either. Most of all..like others have said, don't do a cache that is above and beyond your *actual* not your *imagined* capabilities.

I'm fairly new to geocaching myself. For me, the thrill is in the hunt. If I find it..I won. Personally, I don't see a problem placing a cache with the items that you describe. An equal amount of stuff that an adult might find useful and little things that children would get a kick out of. I've only hidden one cache so far, but I jam packed it with things like a mini camera, a deck of cards, a sewing kit, a toy man with a parachute and other new items from the dollar store. I put an envelope in there as well with a "First Prize" ribbon and a token amount of money for a FTF prize. When I trade, I rarely take anything unless the "little wildchld" is with me and she usually goes for the McToys or the stickers for whatever reason. Most often, if I leave anything it will me a small amount of money. Either a roll of pennies or a dollar. I figure if we take a McToy or a sticker...the money will definitely be a trade up. I also figure that there's not a person on earth that would complain about cash one way or the other. LOL.