Waldo_Mudd

Well, it arrived in the mail on Thursday. Accuracy seems great. It is pretty awesome. 2 new questions to ask though. Is there a way to get rid of that 3rd digit after the decimal? I looked throught the book, but with no luck. 2nd, does it take the GPX 1.0.1 format? I haven't tried the download for it. Was wondering the difference and if I can even receive it. Thanks again for responses.

Oh so AA rechargeables will not recharge? That's good to know. I will definately get the Lithium-ion. Thanks alot for the quick responses.

Quick question for PN-30 users. I just bought it on Walmart.com for 199.97 total, so awesome on that one, but I want to go rechargeable and want to know if the usb to 8pin will recharge the battery or do I absolutely have to buy the charger kit for way more money? Thanks for the answer and Cache-On!

No, I'm asking, "What Is It?" I've never heard of any others. Probably because I've never been to an event and being in the Army, I move around to much to get involved with local cachers.

Are you allowed to advertise the competing website, so those that are fed up and want to play a different game can go away. I'm not at that point yet, but there will come a day when enough is enough and the rules won't even be able to be followed by a harvard law grad. I dread the day, but there is a price to pay for GC.com's popularity, it means more difference of opinion and voices to be heard. Maybe everyone needs to pay to play, then we only have the real cachers and our voices get louder when we have complaints.

Brother, if you think this, (caching as presented at Groundspeak), has ever been a free market, I'd have to say that you're the one who has little grasp of the fundamentals of economics. Since the very early days at geocaching .com, there have been guidelines in place dictating and limiting the behavior of cachers. With the possible exception of Dave Ulmer, we have never been "free" to do what we want. As time passes, and cachers continue to do really stupid things, more guidelines will be put into place. If you really want to be productive, you should expend your energies railing against the idiots, rather than espousing the evils of the corporation. Your blatant entitlement makes you sound like the very Liberals you are vilifying. Very true. Irrelevant, yes. But true none the less. If I were to respond to your post with a comment like "Pickle juice contains sodium" that would be every bit as true, and as irrelevant as your free market/anarchy comparison. I think what Roddy was suggesting, (and I tend to agree with him), is that, if there were NO restrictions, the result would be anarchy. What numbers do you have to support such a claim? When you say "very few", were you talking 51%? 5%? Somewhere in between? Can you quote your source? I'm not sure I follow this logic. Can you break it down for me? How did Groundspeak's decision to place ALRs in the mystery cache category lead to an increase in what Groundspeak would see as a bad ALR? Again, what are the numbers? How far do they deviate from the normal growth pattern? What is your source? Or is this just speculation without supporting evidence? Brother, if that's all you are capable of hiding, please do Texas a favor and take up knitting. If you can't have fun playing this game without the ability to control the actions of others, maybe this hobby isn't for you? In your childish rant, you are implying that your creative license has been stifled by the repressions of "The Man". For the record, you, and a handful of other entitlement junkies, are the only ones who think so. Personally, I plan on continuing to hide caches that exite and inspire others, as my creativity hasn't been reduced at all. Post script: If you honestly believe that "copy cat, cookie cutter, micro, traditional, lightskirt, one word caches" excite and inspire, please disregard my posts to this thread. What I was saying is that eventually with enough bitching by one side or the other on every topic, decision, and type of cache that we can place, we will be reduced to placing a copy cat, cookie cutter, micro, traditional, lightskirt, one word cache because we won't be able to place anything else.

Here's the thing: this game has never been a free market. Caches listed to GC.com have always had to comply with guidelines established by TPTB. As such, allow me to fix your analogy: Imagine that we are all produce vendors who sell at a farmer's market. Customers are free to buy our fruits and vegetables, or not. However, we are not free to sell whatever we want because we are subject to guidelines established by the management of the farmer's market. Produce must be grown locally, it must be fresh, no commercially grown produce is allowed, etc. These guidelines are not static. New guidelines are established and current ones are adjusted as necessary for the good of the farmer's market.

Yep...this happens when you have little hiding skills, no imagination on how to creatively place a cache, place LPC and P&Gs etc. I pity you if that's how it is in your area! Here, we have some really fun walks which take people out and into the nature, give awesome scenery, get you to think and look and think some more. I've spent whole days on a single cache and still DNFd it...and it was a multi-cache without a single requirement or puzzle to it. I spent a whole day climbing a mountain to make the find. We've got night caches which get people to make movies about their experiences, we've got canoe and kayak caches which allow those who like to enjoy the water to get into caching. There's climbing caches and backpacking caches and 4x4 caches. There's cachers out there with more imagination than just making up some ALR so they try to instill arificial fun into the hide! I like it where I am much better than where you sound like you are!! But wait...as a cache HIDER, I've also spent whole days just planning a single stage of a cache, spent whole days rigging, planning, getting the right materials, building and refining! I've spent months on end placing a single cache, planned for months and months on hides where I get stuck on the way to handle a situation...and then get that "AHA" moment and find the way to finish, spent day after day walking the woods and swamps and creeks looking for the right spot. Hiding is as much fun as finding, if you apply yourself and work at making caches fun to find! And, even our quick ones get people to DNF, our Where's the Elevator cache is one which took all of 5 minutes to place and is one tricky devil: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...96-3e19e6519cf5 Our The Devil Made Me Do It cache was another 5 minute wonder: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...f2-4ef598d195ab And lets not forget our night cache which has had great reviews: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...bf-abb92644e4f5 Truly, if it's as bad as you make it out to be, why are you still around? It can't be much fun...can it? I know I said I was stepping down, but I have to say that it's only the middle of it all. It will end up as what I say. Your caches will go down one by one until all we have left is light skirts because every other cache violates some new or existing rule. I was stationed in El Paso and there was the mountain to hike, and then Sierra Vista, AZ and there was a mountain there too, and I even spent a year in Korea where there were mountains too, but it was before it blew up like it has over there. Now I'm in Killeen, TX and even though this is the Heart of Texas Geocaching and there are alot of good caches, when I first got here, there was little variety, so I started placing caches that I enjoyed from elsewhere, like a Liar's cache, a phoon, a costume cache, Lock boxes, multiple redirectors, decoys, and ciphers. All area cachers have enjoyed the bit of refreshment and I now enjoy placing more than finding. When a cacher makes the transition from being a taker to being a giver, he wants the freedom to give in any creative manner he can think of. By limiting his creativity you kill the essence of the cache. Simply those two ALR's should be made the exception. The only ALR's you can require can be a picture and/or a bigger than 4 word log. Now let me step down already. Waldo

Right on, I hadn't thought about the intervention that already had taken place. I am going to do something else now, I've said my piece and also emailed Groundspeak. I will get off my little soapbox and comply with every good intentioned regulation that will allow me to continue to place my copy cat, cookie cutter, micro, traditional, lightskirt, one word log, caches so every number crunching cache addict can get his 4348th cache and won't be inconveinanced with having to do any other task besides holding a pen and scribbling his illiterate mark on a piece of paper and copying and pasting his logs in all 143 garbage caches he visited today. Thank you for looking out for my best interest Groundspeak and deciding for me what caches should contain and require, I whole heartedly enjoy when my hand is held and I don't have to think for myself. It sounds alot like the ARMY, go figure.

Rockin Roddy, Anarchy is not the Free Market, and the Free Market is not Anarchy. I'm simply saying that there doesn't NEED to be limits and restrictions on what my cache entails. Notice I listed "dangerous" as being bannable. I've been to plenty of caches placed in front of gov't buildings and banks and post offices. It's not a big deal, because I pay attention to others. If I see an individual looking at me, I approach them and ask if they know what Geocaching is and then explain it to them. If you had read my post entirely you would have seen how I used the word dangerous, but I guess when you're raging you start to get tunnel vision and don't quite see the whole post.

Ah but if only placement of caches were a free market. Perhaps some hiders place caches with intention that other cachers will enjoy them. And perhaps if they get few people finding there cache they will decide that people aren't enjoying their cache and will either change it to be more enjoyable or will archive. But I would contend that many people do not really care how many people find their cache. They place a cache that they would enjoy themselves and hope that others will enjoy it. They don't count the number of thank you logs they get and in many instances they never get any complaints since people general ignore the cache they don't want to find. But what has also happened is that there is a small number of hiders who for some reason don't care at all whether others will enjoy their cache. Perhaps some of these hiders get some kick from seeing a lot of DNF logs or perhaps (in the case of ALRs) they get a kick out of writing a requirement where they can delete logs because no one is going to actually do the requirement to the letter. In addition TPTB determined there were some things they didn't was cachers to require in an ALR, because they felt the Geoaching would be better off if these task were voluntary. For example, TPTB would not publish an ALR to hide a new cache in order to log this one or and ALR that reserved FTF for a particular person. In the OP, Miss Jenn apologize that the new guidelines mean that some cool ideas would be lost. The guideline was put in place because (to use your free market analogy) there were a few AIGs and Lehman Brothers out there making bad ALRs and ruining the market. A few AIGs and Lehman Brothers? Every failure in our economy can be traced straight back to government control and the response of the free market to follow the rules, but figure out how to make the rules work for them. The housing crisis is a direct reaction to a government regulation that made banks loan money to people they knew couldn't pay it back, but to lesson the risk they let others wager on the outcome (derivitives), that was great if only a few people defaulted. Once a large number defaulted which was caused by OPEC making us pay at the pump, the banks were forced to A) confiscate property, and no bank wants to own property not recieve money from the home owner and C) have to pay out on the derivitives for the people who bet on the foreclosures. That's really what the first bail out was about. It was so the banks could make good on deals that were struck. If the Clinton era regulation of allowing more people to have the american dream was never instituted, you don't have our current crisis, but with liberals, it's always the intention, never the end result. Everyone's always trying to help me, but I don't want the help, don't protect me from anything Groundspeak.

Now, THAT'S either the funniest joke I've ever read, or this poster is seriously deluded! Maybe the joke poster could try making that fit the real situation?? Let's try it like this: Cacher decides he needs a good laugh, so he makes the cachers jump hurdles to enjoy his cache. Some cachers are fine with this and will do this, some aren't and ignore it. Some complain to GS that this is abusing the system, some are happy to bend to the will of the controlling owner. Now, the reviewers who HAVE to see these caches (read as CANNOT ignore them) have grown tired of having to publish these controlling owners' (reportedly) silly requirements on the caches and they get together for 4 months and have a nice talk about it and how best to solve the problem. Noting that not everyone will be pleased, but change is needed, the PTB decide to nip the problem in the bud and not allow any new or any old since that was tried before and was waaaay to confusing for most (got the "but this cache was allowed" complaints over and over and). Some who aren't controlling owners see this as OK and try our best to alleve the paranoia of some who see this as GS being controlling (crazy, isn't it???), answer the same simple questions OVER and OVER...but we are then seen as champions for the change (yeah, we're championing a change that needs no championing...OK) and then sent phishing emails from some posters who can't even fathom the reason for the change nor be bothered to read the thread! Instead of trying to think the whole thing through, be open-minded and listen to reason, they'd rather act injured, demand action and opine without a clue of what has already been covered...go figure! In short, if you don't like the change, why not go and do something about it besides spit into the ocean (what I have suggested posting complaints in here iequals to). Since OBVIOUSLY the word of a few mods, reviewers and MANY cachers isn't enough, how about sending messages to TPTB and not to me...ok?? But that's the point, I am the seller and in a free market I can make anyone who wants to find my cache do whatever I want. It's your choice to buy the fruit (find the cache) Nothing needs to be regulated. You can simply not participate. But that means you have a cache on your first page that will forever not be found and that is where the problem lies because people have this addiction and can't take an unfound cache. If there was no regulation at all, then the reviewers wouldn't have to work hard at all. That's what liberals don't understand about this country, is once it starts you can never go back. To fix a problem the only answer is more control and more tinkering. Just leave it alone, make sure it's not illegal or dangerous and contains no vulgar language. That's all that NEEDS to be done. The seller who is being overly regulated and doesn't want to sell his fruit under these regulations, will find an alternative way to sell his fruit, either on the black market (playing games with GS) or in another country (Possible new site which will fracture the Geocaching community) and nobody wants that, so GS just needs to lay off and let it be. Waldo

Ok, this has a very simple, but complex answer. This used to be a free market, seller (Cache owner) providing what buyer (cache finder) wanted. When the buyer didn't want what the seller had, he didn't buy. He walked past the fruit (geocaching) stand and the seller's fruit all spoiled (no one logged his cache) causing the seller to change how he sold his fruit, but now you have people addicted to the fruit so the seller can sell it anyway he wants, rotten, moldy, mind altering fruit (pictures, lengthy logs, hoops and whistles) and the addicted buyer will still eat it and then complain to the government (ground speak) that the seller had rotten apples and they knew they had rotten apples, but they still bought them, and please oh please GS can you save me from the evil seller who wishes to do me harm, so you have GS (Government Sensors) dictating what the seller can sell to the buyer and how he can sell it, to protect the buyer from a bad apple or two, but stopping the sale of a funkadelic apple, that may have been the addicted buyers favorite apple of all time. I wouldn't expect someone from the all liberal Michigan to understand the free market and why it's important, so I broke it down all fruit style for you.

Ok, Ok... This is getting far too PC. To each his own game, Groundspeak owns the idea of Geocaching, but we all own the game together. If you don't want variety in our caches, then you as Groundspeak put out all the caches we seek, and we'll play your game your way. What I foresee is Geocaching.com going too far and people start turning to a replacement website for the caching fix. It's too easy for a rival website to start and overtake Geocaching.com. These caches are our caches. If you don't want to fulfill an additional requirement, than don't go and find it. If it's something dangerous or against the law or just wrong, then report it to Groundspeak and it will get removed. A picture as a logging requirement is the same thing as signing the log. It proves you were there. It would be different if it was 1995 and digital cameras weren't in every home, but it's not and they are. Let us play our game, our way. Don't dictate how YOU think the game should be played or we'll go play it with someone else. Many more changes like this and I won't be renewing my Premium Membership next year, and when the money walks the changes are made. Waldo

Too much to read it all, so maybe this has already been covered... Some people have stated a multi is not worth the effort, and alot of numbers guys don't find them. Then make them worth more. In Arizona they have a site that tracks finds and assigns point values based on the number of finds on a particular cache. Here's how it works. For each year a cache is available it is worth 100 pts, now divide the number of finds it has and you have its caching value. A cache that's been around for a year and a half is worth 150 pts and if 14 people have found it, then it's worth 10.7 points for each of those 14 people. A max of 100 points for a single cache, but let's face it, almost all caches get found more than once a year. I've figured out my point values using this method for all my caches. My highest stateside cache is GCTK0Q worth 30.86 as of today and my highest cache value overall is GCK0F9 worth 36.48 in South Korea. The Stateside cache took quite a hike to the top of the Franklin Mountains in El Paso. By contrast, the highest point in El Paso, GCQKX5 , which is hiked quite regularily is worth only 16.04, so even though the hike is higher and longer, it is less because it's been visited more frequently. Now these numbers are constantly changing and an old cache is always worth more than a brand new cache, but I like the system. I just wish GC.com could make it easy for me and do all the math automatically.

This doesn't work as well for brand new caches because of the rush to find for all the hardcores, but you take a cache and make each worth a max of 100 points and based on how many people have found it in the course of a year the points adjust, and this is how. Find total number of days it has been active. For example, a cache that's been around for a year and a half would total like 545 then multiply by .274 because this is how much a cache is worth per day based on the 100 points per year. So 545x.274=150pts, now divide by the total number of finds made of that cache. Say 18 people have found it over the course of the year and a half, so it would be worth 8.33pts. If any cache is ever found less than once a year, than you have to max it out at 100, but that doesn't happen like ever, so no worries on that. That way a difficult cache on top of a tall hill would be worth alot more. My highest stateside cache is GCTK0Q, worth 30.83 as of 2Dec08 and my highest overall cache is GCK0F9 in South Korea worth 36.46 as of same date. I hope this helps you and you can program all this into microsoft excel with formulas. Use =DAYS360(A1,B1)*0.277777778 in C1 It's .27777778 because excel uses a 360 day calendar. Put day cache posted in A1 and =NOW() in B1 Then put number of finds in D1 Finally put =C1/D1 in E1 and you have the point value for the cache. Good Luck and Happy Caching.

I have a goal to visit the 50 Cache Across America Geocaches, but I also have a goal to visit the very first cache in each state. Is there an easy way to find these or do I have to look for the earliest date on the created date for each area? Thank you for your posts.

Well thanks for the ideas. I rented a car for $40 and I will hit every single cache I can. If anyone wants to join me or can be a better guide it would be greatly appreciated. I should arrive at 1240 local time and be caching until the sun goes down. If anyone has a recommendation for a great cache to visit, let me know the waypoint and I will be sure to grab it. Thanks all and happy caching. Waldo_Mudd

I'm flying through LAX tomorrow and my layover is 11 1/2 hours long. I want to grab some caches while I'm there, but the taxi fare is a pain. I did this in Hawaii last month and $20 was a pricey cab ride. (I caught the bus back.) If we could have somewhere to get in touch with people in the area to escort us to their favorite caches or just to caches right near the airport it would be awesome. Is there anywhere to do this, or is this a bad idea with the crazies that might be lurking. Thanks for your responses. Waldo_Mudd

Thank you for the tip Tango. Yes I am in Korea and I would like to find out more info so I'll check out the site. My unit is moving across Korea to Daegu in November, but I want to get up to Seoul where there are quite a few caches. I've already had one reply from a sponsor of one of the caches I couldn't find asking me to check on one of his in Seoul.

You should try caching in a country near an American Military Installation. I'm in Kunsan Korea and have searched for 3 caches. All hadn't been visited in a year. One was completely gone. The landscape was changed. Another was so waterlogged I just put it back without signing the log. (Can't adopt it, I leave in two months for a different part of Korea.) And the third I just flat out couldn't find. The sponsor assured me I had visited the right spot, but I just never saw it. Military members go to an area and are excited to place a cache, but then we have to leave and hope someone else picks up the cache and takes care of it. I would recommend temporary caches that would be removed at the end of a tour around overseas military installations or have the sponsor list the name of another cacher who is taking over the cache. This is getting very frustrating for me and probably any other Geocaching enthusiast.