Nick - Cacher

I'm looking for a way to let others experience my hikes by posting my GPS track onto a Google Terrain map, with a picture slide show to the side. TrimbleOutdoors.com doesn't automatically cycle through the pictures like EveryTrail does, you have to manually click the next icon, plus it now costs money. EveryTrail.com used to be perfect, but now any trips you put together are so far zoomed out on the map that the picture locations don't make any sense to those who view it. I've experimented, and cannot change the default map zoom view. Plus, if you post on Facebook, it doesn't show a map icon like it used to. It would be nice to find a website which does that just like those RunKeeper posts you see from your Facebook friends, presenting a small map on their News Feed. Here is what I mean by EveryTrail.com trips being zoomed too far out, to the point picture locations don't make sense: Recently created trip This is how they used to look, zoomed in close enough: Older created trip Does anyone know of any websites which allow you to post trips on Facebook, but not zoomed out too far like EveryTrail now just recently changed to?

lol

Lately, I used something "much more thick" to tie this cache to a tree. I guess I'll see how this new rig works out.

Is the there any chance they thought your coords were 100 feet off?! Well, I had tied the cache container to a tree using green plastic twine (which either they or someone before them decided to break), which doesn't sound accidental. When the cache had been placed 100 feet away, it was in a completely different group of trees than where I had hid it (there are various islands of trees throughout the park), so I'm not sure how that was them mistaking where it needed to be returned to versus just being lazy about making sure it went back to the correct location. Even if they had kids who got to the cache before the parents did, I don't understand why the parents wouldn't know that their kids were searching that island of trees instead of the one 100 feet away, especially when their GPS should let them know the general group of trees it was in. When posting my coordinates online, I had gone to the park multiple times using the "waypoint averaging" feature on my Garmin GPS, so it was impossible for me to have coordinates that would be off by that much.

Hi, I emailed Delta Airlines if it's okay to use a handheld GPS when being a passenger in one of their airplanes. They responded back with it's okay at cruise heights, although not when taking off or landing (apparently some airlines even say no GPS whatsoever). Since I'm flying with Delta in a couple of weeks to Hawaii, I thought it could be fun to make a GPS tracklog to share on Facebook, and geotagg pictures I take out the window (probably would be more fun taking the pictures when I'm flying over the Continental U.S., rather than the open boring ocean part of it). Anyway, would there be any special settings I'd need to set my Garmin Oregon 450 to, for the tracklog and geotagging to work properly? Are there only a certain number of points in a track before the GPS archives it and starts a new one? Because of that, would I need to tell it to only record the track every mile, rather than how I have it now at 1/100th of a mile? Would I need to go to the time settings and tell it to not detect what time zone it's in, so that it'll allow me to "geotagg from track" later on? If I don't do that, would BaseCamp get confused because it would see multiples of the same time within the same track?

Some here mentioned owning the Nikon Coolpix AW100? What's the picture quality like on that camera?

Since I don't already have a smartphone, and it costs $30/month or so to have one, that's why I was curious about a GPS snapshot camera, versus using the camera I already have with my Oregon 450 to sync the time stamps with GPS locations.

I was thinking about getting a snapshot camera with an embedded GPS inside of it, to geotag photos so I can know where I took my photos at. Right now, I use BaseCamp with the GPS tracks from my Garmin Oregon 450, to find coordinates for my pictures. I was wondering what tends to work better? The drawback with geotagging photos using my GPS unit tracks, I have to make sure I tell it to adjust the time by negative 20 seconds (or whatever the difference happens to be at the time of snapping a photo), so that the camera's time stamps can be synced with the GPS. In addition, if I happen to clear the GPS track log before I have the chance to geotagg a photo, that's an obvious problem. I also have my tracks set to record every 100th of a mile, so I don't know if that would throw off the accuracy of a photo? On the other hand, since most people don't leave their digital cameras on the entire time when on a hike, I would be worried if it takes a while for a GPS embedded snapshot camera to get a good enough fix on satellites to get a decent geotagg location for its pictures? What's better? Which tends to be more accurate?

A critter could move some caches out there. However, this one is bigger than most and I found it right side up, no teeth marks in it, plus it was in a city park, so I'm thinking rather than a bear it was a human.

Well, rather than just a few centimeters, this moved 100 feet! I even measured it with my GPS, and since it's camo it was difficult to tell where it was when it's that far away. This matters to me because if a cache of mine appears muggled, but really isn't, going out and getting a new cache container is just a waste!

The second cache of mine that I checked on, because of those "Didn't find it" logs, was one of those magnetic nanos. I had placed it on a chain link fence. I couldn't find it at first, but after searching for a while, I found that someone had re-hid it on the same fence a ways from where I had originally placed it. I'm glad I found it because I didn't want to have to order another one! I don't know how you stop magnetic nanos from migrating around?

Yesterday, I went to check on two of my geocaches, after someone had logged a "DNF" for both of them. When I went to the cache, which was a regular size and had tradeables inside, I couldn't find it! Only after thinking it had been muggled, and was searching around for a new possible spot to hide a new container, I finally found my geocache. However, it was 100 feet away from where I had hid it! How does that happen? I don't know how people place it 100 feet from where it was hidden! On the cache page, I had put in a note to return it back exactly how one found it. I even tied a thin plastic green rope around it, and tied the other end to a tree, to create a leash to discourage it from migrating around. The thin plastic rope had been broken. It was like someone wanted to take it out of the forest at this city park, so they could show their friends/family members, and were too lazy to return it to where they found it! I also suspect the laziness factor because the cache had not been vandalized but rather moved that distance away. The movers were probably confused why a CO even attach a thin plastic rope to a cache container Do other people have problems with their caches migrating around like that over time! What do you do to limit that? I was thinking I could get some thick aircraft cable from Lowes, paint it brown, then strap the cache container to a tree! However, when I got permission from the city park superintendent, he said just as long as no damage is done to the park he's okay with me placing geocaches in whatever city parks I want. So, I might be worried using the aircraft cable could possibly somehow cause damage to a tree, or be frowned upon?

That's funny

I might be mistaken, but I believe in the geocaching guidelines it says you can use a 1/2 star rating leeway, if you believe the terrain may be easier or more difficult than what the rating system tells you to do. That's why I was suggesting 4 1/2 ratings in addition to the 5 star for rappelling, based on how difficult it could be (a short simple rappel, versus a long one with possible loose falling rocks). As far as the half star rating system, you've probably noticed many light post caches are rated 1 1/2 stars. They say 1 star means handicap accessible, 2 means little kids can do it. Many see LP caches as maybe not appropriate for wheelchairs if you have to go up over the curb, but definitely much easier than a 2 star cache, so they use a 1 1/2 terrain rating.

I think there was a misunderstanding. Rather than suggesting I'm an expert now and going to rappel in all these areas all by myself, I was thinking I could possibly place a cache the next time I take part in a training session (as long as it's not in an actual cave, but on some cliff). The only thing I'd be concerned about, even if I do get permission from the property manager, if cavers see me placing a geocache on a cliff used for training, they may also get the wrong impression that I may try doing the same when they later take me to a real cave. Naturally they don't want the location of a cave to be given away to the public. I wouldn't want them to get that wrong impression, because I would want to be taken to caves. I was just entertaining the idea of placing on a rock cliff, and thinking about how I would do it.

If someone rates the terrain for their cache appropriately, then I don't see how it could be seen too much of a problem, nor liability. It's like they were warned beforehand when the terrain rating is appropriate. I know in the guidelines it says 5 stars if specialized equipment is needed (ex. scuba gear). If we rate it 4 1/2 stars for easy rappelling, and 5 for difficult rappelling, and explain you need the gear, I can't see how anyone could sue you and win if their family member dies looking for the cache.

That would be so cool! Although I'm not a member of any caving clubs, I went to a vertical cave training thing the other day. I rappelled and ascended for the first time in my life, and it was fun! Although the National Speleological Society says that geocaches for caves are not appropriate, with a few small exceptions, nothing says I couldn't put a cache on a cliff used as training (not actually inside a cave). Just as long as one gets permission from the property manager, it would be a blast! You just have to hide it just right, so muggle climbers on the cliff don't find it, but easy enough that a cacher doesn't get too physically tired looking for it, which could be dangerous if they're just hanging there for a very long time.

And you're getting mad at me? What I don't understand is on the Geocaching.com Guidelines: "Wildlife and the natural environment are not harmed in the pursuit of geocaching. Geocaches are placed so that plant and animal life are safe from both intentional and unintentional harm. In some regions geocaching activity may need to cease for portions of the year due to sensitivity of some species." Geocache Placement Guidelines Link I'm sorry, but wildlife Geocaching.com is concerned about doesn't take tens of thousands of years to come back after being damaged, many cave formations do! That just sounds quite inconsistent to me! Before you say that I'm throwing rocks at geocachers, isn't Geocaching.com doing the same exact thing, by saying they don't think geocaches should be placed in areas where it could be a potential problem? It's okay for you to get upset at me, but not Geocaching.com for suggesting that caches shouldn't be placed in areas where wildlife could be harmed in their guidelines? I never said most cachers are destructive, and have cleared up that misconception many times, that most are good but there are always a few individuals out there who may cause problems. It just irks me that Geocaching.com goes around saying that wildlife can't be harmed, but if I say delicate stalactites which take tens of thousands of years to form, that automatically means I'm accusatory?!!! You said just anyone can Google cave locations even if they aren't geocachers? Well, I'm sorry but people can do the same for areas with delicate wildlife. So then why does Geocaching.com even need guidelines to protect wildlife?

That's funny! Keep in mind that a paper map can be wrong also, and lead you down roads which don't exist, or give you the impression a highway exit is somewhere when it's not. Sometimes, is it really the GPS's fault, where not having the GPS would be better, or do people just need to think what's going on?

I agree with everything except this. I've been in a cave. (Several, actually) But I don't consider myself a caver. In my eyes, a caver is a hobbyist who focuses on those locations. During my visits, I would rate myself somewhere around cautious tourist. I had no idea what I was doing, so I took exceptional care to leave no trace. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the previous two statements of Clan Riffster and geodarts. "Cavers" are not what are causing the vandalism. First before you object, let me explain. The media usually uses the word "spelunking" to describe going into caves. So, caving clubs, especially members of the National Speleological Society, like to call themselves "cavers" in order to let other "cavers" know they're not the same people who call themselves "spelunkers", so that they don't have to worry. Cavers see spelunkers as those who only care about having a thrill, but not cave conservation. When the Sheriff's Office gets called out for Search and Rescue to caves, a lot of counties will call out cavers from local grottos. So apparently there's a phrase "Cavers Rescue Spelunkers"! They often see spelunkers as tourists going into caves and causing damage along the way (Clan Riffster, notice that I did not accuse you of being one of those, since you called yourself a "cautious tourist"). Apparently, this distinction between words only applies to the U.S. Anyway, as far as "cavers" causing the damage, many caving clubs will have cave service projects, where they'll help out the BLM or other agency with removing graffiti from a cave, or help a National Park/Monument with lint cleanup. That's why I'm doubting that it's cavers causing the damage. Although I'm not a grotto member, all this talk is making me want to join one of their clubs. I've been to some meetings for different groups, just out of curiosity.

Well, this cache is not a PMO cache, so it could turn into a delicate place to advertise on Geocaching.com. Second, with the experience I gave of my cache where people throw litter on the ground using the plastic packaging for the trade items I place inside, I'll move that cache around and make sure it's hidden in vegetation, but yet people still continue to do the litter, which tells me some of the culprits are logging onto Geocaching.com to find the cache.

You asked me specifically about geocachers, and trusting them with an ungated cave with delicate stalactites and cave formations inside? Although there's a Cache in Trash Out Forum here and in the guidelines they say not to do anything destructive to the environment, I've personally had quite a bad few experiences with geocachers with no concern for how they treat the places they visit. I am not so sure I would trust those individuals to go anonymously into a cave with formations which took thousands of years to form, that could easily be accidentally damaged just by rubbing up against them, let alone look tempting for the average person to break off to take as a souvenir, just like people enjoy picking strawberries. For example, I hid a cache in a park specifically having in mind kids going with their parents to visit. Later, I visited the cache and looking at the logbook someone had signed "Child Predator" as their log name. I found all this pornography in my cache container, which had to be removed before another parent and their kids came along. Correct me if I'm wrong, are these the type of geocachers which are responsible enough to go to a delicate, non-replaceable cave like Goshute Cave? Additionally as far as many geocachers out there not caring about how they leave the place looking, often when I go check on that cache of mine there is litter all over the ground right next to the container, and I know it was from someone visiting the cache, because often I'll refill the trade items inside with stuff from the store, and I'll find the plastic packaging for these items just left out all over the ground. It's like they're thinking, "Me! Me! Me!", without any concern for how they leave the place. Correct me if I'm wrong, but many geocachers just don't seem to care about treating places they visit nicely, even if there are good cachers out there? I've also multiple times found that people wrote swear words inside of the cache container, and of course I had to remove that. In the Groundspeak forums, I've seen others complain that people have gone to the bathroom in their caches, after writing something on the container with the intent to devastate the cache owner! One forum member's response to that was geocaching is mostly an anonymous activity, so it happens. You don't believe we need to bring those types of cachers to a place where they're free to break off as many stalactites as their heart's content?

You've yet to establish a connection between geocachers and cave vandalism. If you have evidence please put it forth. Otherwise I'm inclined to think the problem lies with cavers who bring friends who tell other friends, who tell other friends. CAVERS are the problem. Cavers have been vandalizing these caves long before geocaching was a gleam in Dave Ulmer's eye. You asked if the real issue is just cavers, and if it really does matter if coordinates are published online? The reason why it's better for someone to be brought to delicate caves "in person" by someone who has "cave conservation" in mind, and in return asks them to do the same for any future people they may show: 1. The mindset created. It is a lot more likely that people will be in the mindset of leaving the cave exactly how one found it, versus when the coordinates are published freely online so people can anonymously visit. In earlier posts I believe we established how common cave vandalism or even carelessness is, and how it takes thousands of years for these cave formations to form. 2. Weeding a lot of the careless people out. The people who are looking for a thrill but don't actually care if the cave gets damaged in their pursuit of fun, are likely to not have the patience to wait around to have someone in person show them where the cave is at, and often just end up finding other not so delicate places to visit instead which will give them the excitement they seek. 3. Limits caves from being permanently closed because of when people get killed. Although this concern would be much less applicable to this specific cave, there have been many caves in the past which had their entrances sealed off with so many feet of cement because someone just had to ruin it for everyone else by dying inside. It would seem better to visit a cave in person with someone else who already has been inside before and has been taught in cave safety, versus having random people show up. As far as the seriousness of what has already happened to this specific cave, I emailed the Utah Cave Survey on the border of Nevada where the cave is, asking them about this cave, vandalism, and people posting locations online. In their email response I was told, "Goshute was once a highly decorated cave. Because of the availability of information pertaining to it, Goshute Cave is currently only a shadow of its former self. The day will soon arrive when there will be nothing in there worth seeing." Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't that sound sad that in the future people may not be able to enjoy this cave because of vandalism which adds up over time?

I still don't get it. At any point down that line, someone who has been shown the cave may show or tell someone that has a lower level of morality and goes there to vandalise it. For example, dad gets shown by his buddy. Dad then takes the teenage kids to it. The teenage kids take their friends. Said friends, or their friends, vandalise it. Okay, maybe this will help. On many posts throughout these Groundspeak forums, cachers claim they'll often make premium member only geocaches, because they're so sick and tired of their caches being vandalized over and over again, or when cachers leave snails and rocks inside as their trading items. Since I'm a regular member, not a premium member, should I be offended that they seem elitist and that they're trying to make up a false excuse of not wanting their caches vandalized? Couldn't those searching for caches and registered as "premium member" show the found cache to a non-cacher, especially if they thought it was a "cool cache"? Is making a premium member cache really foolproof? I also hear in these forums how many notice the higher the difficulty the cache, the better quality people trade swag, and less vandalism. Isn't that elitist? Shouldn't we make it fun for those beginner cachers who visit 10 caches and still can't find anything? Couldn't the 4/4 cache also be revealed to irresponsible friends by the responsible cacher? Why do many here explain that this is why they make premium member only caches or higher difficulty rating ones? So why do cachers try these tactics to lower cache vandalism and increase the quality of trading, when it's not foolproof?

If you're going to say they want them for themselves and are elitists, then maybe you can explain why they take non-grotto members to caves? To show off? Being smug does little for one's self esteem unless you have someone to flaunt your elitist status to. First of all, I'm not a grotto member, or part of a caving group. However, I can tell you one of the big reasons they also don't publish coordinates is often they get a key from the government to go inside gated caves on Federal Land. Since it's FEDERAL LAW that the Federal Government is not supposed to give out locations of caves on Federal Land as a conservation measure (unless it's reasonable to believe no harm will come from it), caving clubs need to have a reputation with the government of not giving out locations publicly, if they want to continue going to these caves which require a key. (And yes, it's pretty common that gated caves have their gates removed by vandals, so the Federal Government often does not appreciate coordinates being published publicly) The Federal Law: Federal Cave Resources Protection Act of 1988, section 4304, specific wording from UScode.house.gov The Federal Government can give out locations if it could help with conservation, such as how the Carlsbad Caverns National Park is published, and became a National Park long before the law was made.