The Water Rat

I totally agree with what Utahsnowflake has said. Most of us will never have the opportunity to find Jacobs Moving Cache but if we do why not share our good fortune with friends ? It's a game not a competition. However the problem is that apparently JacobBarlow has used this possible sharing as a reason to remove the cache from the UK. Thus it appears that there is now a double standard applied to the way it is played. This is what has incensed a significant number of the geocaching community in the UK many who had never heard of Jacob's cache before. Had JacobBarlow simply said it is my cache and I don't want it to leave Utah this would have been accepted, albeit perhaps reluctantly. We now have the ridiculous situation where the same two caches are both in play, which is against GS rules. I have offered a solution which would be permissible. Let's not fall out over this, it is just a game. I'm sure if we were to meet up either in the US or UK we would at least share a beer or whatever your drink of choice.

Wow, MrsLegoLegend and I had no idea what we were getting ourselves into by grabbing that cache last night. The forum has caught fire since then, so without trying to address all the issues at hand, I would like to respond to the Water Rat's accusation that all of the latest finders are cheating. A problem with judging cachers solely by their logs is you don't really know the context at all. First, drgw3128 and Utahsnowflake have been married for years. Both of them finding the same cache isn't quite like taking the cache to an event for all in attendance to sign. Or even like calling up a buddy to come sign the cache while its in your possession. Generally when you cache with someone else, it doesn't matter who actually spots the cache first, both tend to sign the log. Second, although we are friends with both of the previous hiders, literally all we received last night was a text containing a GC code. This message came after new coordinates had already been posted and the hundreds of cachers watching this cache had received a notification. Having found moving caches before, we actually ended up deciding not to go retrieve the cache last night since it was down in the town south of us. About an hour later, however, we got a FTF notification and that got us out the door. Again, the purpose of this log is to point out that everybody accusing each other of cheating is kind of pointless when you don't have the whole story. That's just how this game works. Before throwing accusations, try to find out the whole story. And maybe take a few minutes to calm down and remember its just a game. Thanks for the explanation, sorry if I upset anyone. However this has come about because the cache which was legitimately in the UK was disabled by the cache owner due to what he assumed to be abuse based upon logs. As you say the problem with judging catchers solely by their logs is you don't really know the context at all. Unfortunately you innocently got caught up in this. I have tried to make a proposal which could be satisfactory to all, subject to GS but am yet to hear a positive response. I am sorry that people who share an international fun hobby we cannot appear to agree.

I don't have any rules, Groundspeak does. Quite correct JacobBarlow, GS makes the rules you have to ensure they are complied with, I apologise. However what most people on this side are interested in is a reply to my suggestion that Jacob' s cache is shared between the US and the UK. Will you consider this ? How do you propose this be accomplished? Are you or someone else going to travel from USA to UK to accomplish this? As I said in making my suggestion. There are already two of these caches, one, the original still safely hidden in England, the clone or new one in Utah. Therefore the movement across the ocean was virtual not physical. Since GS haven't intervened in this the assumption is that this is permitted.

I don't have any rules, Groundspeak does. Quite correct JacobBarlow, GS makes the rules you have to ensure they are complied with, I apologise. However what most people on this side are interested in is a reply to my suggestion that Jacob' s cache is shared between the US and the UK. Will you consider this ?

Well in the absence of GS making a decision on whether virtual flits across the pond are permissible. Wouldn't it be nice if in the spirit of international co- operation and a shared interest in geocaching that we agreed to share Jacob six months on each side of the pond. We already have two Jacobs in existence. It's for Jacob Barlow to decide of course as the cache owner but I think it would satisfy nearly all if such a compromise were possible. I certainly think the UK has enough interest in ensuring that Jacob' s rules are complied with.

Jacob accuses UK catchers of abusing the rules. Isn't it abuse when a US catcher gives another a heads up on a placement ? Or simply just travels with a catcher whilst they hide it ? It just seems that this was an excuse to get the cache back in the US. Utah MOVING Cache #1 (GCA87C) on your watchlist has a new log: Logged by: LegoLegend Log Type: Write note Date: 2/17/2015 Location: Utah, United States Type: Unknown Cache Log: Grabbed this tonight with MrsLegoLegend! Thanks utahsnowflake for the heads up! I thought this cache was gone. It was larger than we anticipated. We'll be placing it soon! Thanks Jacob! Utah MOVING Cache #1 (GCA87C) on your watchlist has a new log: Logged by: drgw3128 Log Type: Found it Date: 2/17/2015 Location: Utah, United States Type: Unknown Cache Log: Along with Utahsnowflake for the hide, now we can officially log it. (New coordinates are in her log.) Many thanks for the awesome revived cache!

If British Cachers are so discourteous I wonder why Jacob Barlow didn't accept the help offered by the last British Finder of his cache and instead just deleted his note which is below and his found log. Utah MOVING Cache #1 (GCA87C) on your watchlist has a new log: Logged by: JF20938 Log Type: Write note Date: 2/17/2015 Location: Utah, United States Type: Unknown Cache Log: UK cache status Those observing the logs in the last two weeks may recall that I posted the last set of UK coordinates. The container is still there and fully intact. Nevertheless, I recognise that the lack of information for UK Geocachers is giving way to something less pleasant so I've decided to share what I know and offer my interpretation. I'm fortunate in one sense. I became aware of this cache only recently, so have spent less time-and-effort on it than many. Don't misunderstand me; had I been following it for months, watching it come within reach only to have my plans dashed by a sudden move away, I'd be right with you. I'm not so bound-up in it but fully respect those who are. Nevertheless, I too waited for the CO to explain his motivation and intent. With none forthcoming and very aware that I was last to hide the physical container, I made direct contact. For reasons that I didn't challenge, the CO wanted to relocate his cache to Utah. I proposed two actions that he might take: 1) provide a TB-style 'mission' to allow it to return home under it's own steam or 2) allow me to mail it to him in Utah at my own expense. Now, I realise neither of those would satisfy all UK Geocachers but they would, perhaps, deliver a more elegant closure to many. We could all shed a single tear and wave an empty logsheet as we wished the cache a safe voyage back home. ...or something like that. The CO didn't take me up on my suggestion or offer. Our exchange stopped pretty quickly but I leave it open should he have a change of heart. Now I see that he's deleted all UK entries following his own 'Disabled' post. That includes all offers- to-adopt and leaves all courteous questions unanswered. He has also deleted my Find log which I do find disappointing. I drove some distance to recover the cache; I really didn't anticipate that my search would ultimately prove futile. I too had my moment of annoyance and resolved to submit a 'Needs Archiving' log. I've changed my mind, asking myself "what's the point?". This is just one of those rare Geocaching irritations like people logging a Find without signing the log or without even visiting the cache. In the end, it's hurting nobody. I'm sorry if this comes across as sanctimonious. I seek neither thanks nor sympathy. I hope by concluding that the UK chapter is now over won't get me flamed either. c'est la vie Rodney, c'est la vie - which probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense in Utah. Happy caching, even if you're from the Beehive State, John.